Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Legal experts have been skeptical of the prosecutions charges and strategy since about day 1, this will be interesting to say the least.
What are YOU hoping for, Jimmy?
I am hoping for justice for all involved, i am hoping that the outcome doesn't create more innocent victims through continued vandalism and violence of those unaccepting of the verdict.
I dont believe the cops actions were legal or justified. I dont believe the victim was either innocent nor a good person. I do believe that some good may come from his death, but we need to get past the anger and twister truths before we can have that conversation that may lead to that good.
I know that you are baiting me so go ahead and so what it is you want to say.
Not baiting you. This was a good answer. Personally, i think Floyd's history of beating puppies or whatever it was he did is irrelevant. Zanary complains that he was unworthy of "three televised funerals." That's not about George Floyd. That's about what he represents.
I don't understand the need some people have to denigrate him, as if it matters.
Is it ok to think the overdose is what killed him?
Why is it important for you to believe that? When both the ME and the ER doc ruled it out. When the actual cause of death is seen pretty clearly on video.
Well, the defense was asserting yesterday that Chauvin moved his knee at times too. More near the shoulder blade instead of back of neck. This is the stuff coming out.
Eventually we're going to hear how Floyd and Chauvin have had a history together. I'm surprised it hasn't come out yet. Might that be motive???
Its going to get even more gruesome in the next week or two...That's when all the autopsy detail will be thoroughly vetted, pix and all.
It's sad but necessary.
Ideally there's going to be clarity and ultimately justice.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Legal experts have been skeptical of the prosecutions charges and strategy since about day 1, this will be interesting to say the least.
What are YOU hoping for, Jimmy?
I am hoping for justice for all involved, i am hoping that the outcome doesn't create more innocent victims through continued vandalism and violence of those unaccepting of the verdict.
I dont believe the cops actions were legal or justified. I dont believe the victim was either innocent nor a good person. I do believe that some good may come from his death, but we need to get past the anger and twister truths before we can have that conversation that may lead to that good.
I know that you are baiting me so go ahead and so what it is you want to say.
Not baiting you. This was a good answer. Personally, i think Floyd's history of beating puppies or whatever it was he did is irrelevant. Zanary complains that he was unworthy of "three televised funerals." That's not about George Floyd. That's about what he represents.
I don't understand the need some people have to denigrate him, as if it matters.
Is it ok to think the overdose is what killed him?
Why is it important for you to believe that? When both the ME and the ER doc ruled it out. When the actual cause of death is seen pretty clearly on video.
Because you need 1/12 on that jury that sees it that way and he either gets a reduced sentance or none at all.
Honestly, cops get away with all kinds of shit. If I were a betting man Id say Chauvin goes free.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Legal experts have been skeptical of the prosecutions charges and strategy since about day 1, this will be interesting to say the least.
What are YOU hoping for, Jimmy?
I am hoping for justice for all involved, i am hoping that the outcome doesn't create more innocent victims through continued vandalism and violence of those unaccepting of the verdict.
I dont believe the cops actions were legal or justified. I dont believe the victim was either innocent nor a good person. I do believe that some good may come from his death, but we need to get past the anger and twister truths before we can have that conversation that may lead to that good.
I know that you are baiting me so go ahead and so what it is you want to say.
Not baiting you. This was a good answer. Personally, i think Floyd's history of beating puppies or whatever it was he did is irrelevant. Zanary complains that he was unworthy of "three televised funerals." That's not about George Floyd. That's about what he represents.
I don't understand the need some people have to denigrate him, as if it matters.
Is it ok to think the overdose is what killed him?
Why is it important for you to believe that? When both the ME and the ER doc ruled it out. When the actual cause of death is seen pretty clearly on video.
Because you need 1/12 on that jury that sees it that way and he either gets a reduced sentance or none at all.
Honestly, cops get away with all kinds of shit. If I were a betting man Id say Chauvin goes free.
maybe in a less liberal state, I have my doubts that he skates on this one despite many lawyers stating that the prosecutors over reached with their charges vs what the evidence will support.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Legal experts have been skeptical of the prosecutions charges and strategy since about day 1, this will be interesting to say the least.
What are YOU hoping for, Jimmy?
I am hoping for justice for all involved, i am hoping that the outcome doesn't create more innocent victims through continued vandalism and violence of those unaccepting of the verdict.
I dont believe the cops actions were legal or justified. I dont believe the victim was either innocent nor a good person. I do believe that some good may come from his death, but we need to get past the anger and twister truths before we can have that conversation that may lead to that good.
I know that you are baiting me so go ahead and so what it is you want to say.
Not baiting you. This was a good answer. Personally, i think Floyd's history of beating puppies or whatever it was he did is irrelevant. Zanary complains that he was unworthy of "three televised funerals." That's not about George Floyd. That's about what he represents.
I don't understand the need some people have to denigrate him, as if it matters.
Is it ok to think the overdose is what killed him?
Why is it important for you to believe that? When both the ME and the ER doc ruled it out. When the actual cause of death is seen pretty clearly on video.
Because you need 1/12 on that jury that sees it that way and he either gets a reduced sentance or none at all.
Honestly, cops get away with all kinds of shit. If I were a betting man Id say Chauvin goes free.
maybe in a less liberal state, I have my doubts that he skates on this one despite many lawyers stating that the prosecutors over reached with their charges vs what the evidence will support.
maybe so. End of the day I think he gets dingged on manslaughter
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Legal experts have been skeptical of the prosecutions charges and strategy since about day 1, this will be interesting to say the least.
What are YOU hoping for, Jimmy?
I am hoping for justice for all involved, i am hoping that the outcome doesn't create more innocent victims through continued vandalism and violence of those unaccepting of the verdict.
I dont believe the cops actions were legal or justified. I dont believe the victim was either innocent nor a good person. I do believe that some good may come from his death, but we need to get past the anger and twister truths before we can have that conversation that may lead to that good.
I know that you are baiting me so go ahead and so what it is you want to say.
Not baiting you. This was a good answer. Personally, i think Floyd's history of beating puppies or whatever it was he did is irrelevant. Zanary complains that he was unworthy of "three televised funerals." That's not about George Floyd. That's about what he represents.
I don't understand the need some people have to denigrate him, as if it matters.
Is it ok to think the overdose is what killed him?
Why is it important for you to believe that? When both the ME and the ER doc ruled it out. When the actual cause of death is seen pretty clearly on video.
Because you need 1/12 on that jury that sees it that way and he either gets a reduced sentance or none at all.
Honestly, cops get away with all kinds of shit. If I were a betting man Id say Chauvin goes free.
maybe in a less liberal state, I have my doubts that he skates on this one despite many lawyers stating that the prosecutors over reached with their charges vs what the evidence will support.
I have my doubts he skates too...You and I must be reading different news cause most of my take is that it's been a pretty devastatingly effective week for the prosecution. Who knows till the fat lady sings.
Anyways, there's a reason there was so much activity for Manslaughter 3 before the trial began...
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Legal experts have been skeptical of the prosecutions charges and strategy since about day 1, this will be interesting to say the least.
What are YOU hoping for, Jimmy?
I am hoping for justice for all involved, i am hoping that the outcome doesn't create more innocent victims through continued vandalism and violence of those unaccepting of the verdict.
I dont believe the cops actions were legal or justified. I dont believe the victim was either innocent nor a good person. I do believe that some good may come from his death, but we need to get past the anger and twister truths before we can have that conversation that may lead to that good.
I know that you are baiting me so go ahead and so what it is you want to say.
Not baiting you. This was a good answer. Personally, i think Floyd's history of beating puppies or whatever it was he did is irrelevant. Zanary complains that he was unworthy of "three televised funerals." That's not about George Floyd. That's about what he represents.
I don't understand the need some people have to denigrate him, as if it matters.
Is it ok to think the overdose is what killed him?
Why is it important for you to believe that? When both the ME and the ER doc ruled it out. When the actual cause of death is seen pretty clearly on video.
Because you need 1/12 on that jury that sees it that way and he either gets a reduced sentance or none at all.
Honestly, cops get away with all kinds of shit. If I were a betting man Id say Chauvin goes free.
maybe in a less liberal state, I have my doubts that he skates on this one despite many lawyers stating that the prosecutors over reached with their charges vs what the evidence will support.
I have my doubts he skates too...You and I must be reading different news cause most of my take is that it's been a pretty devastatingly effective week for the prosecution. Who knows till the fat lady sings.
Anyways, there's a reason there was so much activity for Manslaughter 3 before the trial began...
i havent really watched any coverage since the trial started, I listened to several lawyers on various radio programs offer their 2 cents prior to the trial and have only heard a couple bits since it started. IMO its going to really all be about how well prepared the prosecution was for what the defense plans to present. the content of their case really doesnt mean much if the defense has prepared a different defense strategy as much of what the prosecution puts out there as "damaging" can quickly be swept away by a slick legal team and some effective witnesses of their own.
my primary reason for thinking he doesnt skate really has little to do with Chauvins guilt or innocence, but its in the hands of 12 people who call Minneapolis their home and they would complete idiots not to suspect the worst if they dont find him guilty on enough charges to prevent a repeat of last summer. its not going to be about justice, its going to be about saving their city IMO.
'It's like the left side is in a vise:' Breathing expert tells jurors that George Floyd died from lack of oxygen while under Derek Chauvin's kneeThe case is moving toward opposing views about Floyd's cause of death.A medical expert testified in the Derek Chauvin murder trial that George Floyd died from a lack of oxygen late last spring as the now-fired Minneapolis police officer knelt on Floyd's neck.
Dr. Martin Tobin, a Chicago physician who has specialized in respiratory and critical care medicine for decades, said he has reviewed much of the evidence and concluded that "Floyd died from a low level of oxygen. This caused damage to his brain that we see, and it also caused a [pulseless electrical activity] arrhythmia that caused his heart to stop."
Tobin, who is based at Hines VA hospital in Chicago and Loyola University, added, "The cause of the low level of oxygen was shallow breathing; small breaths ... that weren't able to carry the air through his lungs down to the essential areas of the lungs that get oxygen into the blood and get rid of the carbon dioxide."
Tobin listed the factors leading to Floyd being unable to take in oxygen, among them, "He is turned prone on the street, that he has the handcuffs in place combined with the street, and that he has a knee on his neck, and he has a knee in his back and side."
Unlike many experts called to testify in cases, Tobin said he is not being paid. He said he has testified in dozens of malpractice cases, but this is his first time as a witness in a criminal proceeding. He said the prosecution came to him about testifying.
Using a composite video, Tobin showed jurors how Floyd was positioned with the officers on top of him and how it contributed to his inability to take sufficient breaths. He said Chauvin and officer J. Alexander Kueng manipulated Floyd's handcuffs by "pushing them into his back and pushing them high," which further hindered his ability to breathe.
"It's like the left side is in a vise, it's being pushed in from the street at the bottom and the way the handcuffs are manipulated … totally interfere with central features of how we breathe," he said.
Tobin said Floyd also used his left shoulder in attempt to create chest space to draw a breath, but "the shoulder is a very ineffective way of breathing."
"Basically, on the left side of his chest," Tobin continued, "it's as if a surgeon almost went in and removed the lung ... and left him totally reliant on his right side," the doctor said.
With a photo shown in court of Floyd's knuckles bracing in order to get air, Tobin said, "To most people, this doesn't look terribly significant, but to a physiologist this is extraordinarily significant, because this shows the has used up all his resources and showed he is trying to breathe with his fingers and knuckles."
With his left lung rendered useless, the doctor said that Floyd "is totally dependent on getting air into the right side. He's using his fingers and knuckles against the street to try and crank up his chest. This is his only way to get air into the right lung."
The knee on Floyd's neck also restricted "air getting into the passageway," according to the doctor, who said it left him trying to breathe through a space similar to a small straw. He called that "enormously difficult and we know that from physics."
"We know what happens physicologically, when you have this level of narrowing this is going to happen to everybody."
Also Thursday, the prosecution confirmed that it intends to soon call as a witness Dr. Andrew Baker, the Hennepin County medical examiner who performed the only autopsy on Floyd soon after he died on May 25.
Baker ruled Floyd's cause of death as cardiac arrest, namely "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression." He also listed hardening and thickening of the artery walls, heart disease and drug use as "other significant conditions." Fentanyl and methamphetamine were also found in Floyd's system.
The prosecution, however, said in its opening statement at the start of last week that it would prove Floyd died of asphyxia, or lack of oxygen, while Chauvin knelt on his neck for more than nine minutes.
Defense attorney Eric Nelson has argued that Floyd died of a cardiac arrest resulting from illicit drug use and ongoing health problems, including heart disease and high blood pressure.
https://www.startribune.com/it-s-like-th...600043531/
This trial is moving quickly...Like we discussed earlier, it's moving towards the $1mm question " what will the jury believe killed Mr Floyd?"
i would be surprised if the defense doesnt have a circus of ER professionals that will talk about what person dying from a meth/fentanyl overdose experience before collapsing. the most common response from those OD victims, before they go unconscious is "I cant breath", this is coming from an ER RN in hennepin county who deals with ODs quite regularly on her shifts. I also expect they will have experts testifying to the tox drug levels in his system and if they feel that those factor into the death. I doubt the defense is going to go for complete innocence, the evidence to the contrary is overwhelming, but there are likely a litany of other factors that will play in being used to bring the jurors back from the ledge that the prosecution has them on.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
i would be surprised if the defense doesnt have a circus of ER professionals that will talk about what person dying from a meth/fentanyl overdose experience before collapsing. the most common response from those OD victims, before they go unconscious is "I cant breath", this is coming from an ER RN in hennepin county who deals with ODs quite regularly on her shifts. I also expect they will have experts testifying to the tox drug levels in his system and if they feel that those factor into the death. I doubt the defense is going to go for complete innocence, the evidence to the contrary is overwhelming, but there are likely a litany of other factors that will play in being used to bring the jurors back from the ledge that the prosecution has them on.
Who knows what the jurors are thinking?
Nothing surprises me anymore. Hell, I always come back to "if the glove don't fit..."
Anyways, this brings us right back to the tremendous energy and time expended b4 this trial began - for MS 3.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Legal experts have been skeptical of the prosecutions charges and strategy since about day 1, this will be interesting to say the least.
What are YOU hoping for, Jimmy?
I am hoping for justice for all involved, i am hoping that the outcome doesn't create more innocent victims through continued vandalism and violence of those unaccepting of the verdict.
I dont believe the cops actions were legal or justified. I dont believe the victim was either innocent nor a good person. I do believe that some good may come from his death, but we need to get past the anger and twister truths before we can have that conversation that may lead to that good.
I know that you are baiting me so go ahead and so what it is you want to say.
Not baiting you. This was a good answer. Personally, i think Floyd's history of beating puppies or whatever it was he did is irrelevant. Zanary complains that he was unworthy of "three televised funerals." That's not about George Floyd. That's about what he represents.
I don't understand the need some people have to denigrate him, as if it matters.
Is it ok to think the overdose is what killed him?
Why is it important for you to believe that? When both the ME and the ER doc ruled it out. When the actual cause of death is seen pretty clearly on video.
Because you need 1/12 on that jury that sees it that way and he either gets a reduced sentance or none at all.
Honestly, cops get away with all kinds of shit. If I were a betting man Id say Chauvin goes free.
I have no confidence in the system in this case. The prosecution has presented the case. The video evidence has shown what happened. Chauvin had a long history of complaints that were ignored. The testimony has been gutwrenching. It could be like Rodney King all over again. I hope he doesn't get away with it but we'll see what happens. Reforms are long overdue. Hoping for the best but not expecting much.
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