Quote: @"ArizonaViking" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
D gives up 31 points to a 2-7 team, and we're talking about Cousins?
Jfc
This year records are meaningless. I don't blame Cousins at all. He actually played a very good game. But I blame the offense more than the defense.
The defense is what it is. It's held together with stuff you find in your junk drawer. It's been playing out of its mind the last several weeks, but considering who they are, we're just going to get mixed results. And you certainly cannot count on them to put a game away.
But we SHOULD be able to count on our offense. One of the best running games in the NFL against the 2nd worst run defense in the NFL. We had a chance to put the game away pitting our strength against their weakness. And we couldn't do it.
It was like the Seattle game. I was screaming at the TV..."you CANNOT give this team the ball back." You give them the ball back, you lose. The defense will not hold. It just won't. Same thing in this game.
Have you considered with a half-ass defense that yields way too many yards and points, that the offense has been put in too many situations to win it at the end...and quietly hoping Cousins fails at the end?
Yeah, but whether we like it or not, that's how we have to win. To say otherwise is not being honest with yourself.
We've known from the very beginning that this was not going to be a good defense. We've been able to put a few good defensive games together through hard coaching and a couple of young players making big plays in key moments. But it's not sustainable.
At the end of the day, good teams know who they are. They rely on their strengths and try to mitigate weakness. And you thank God when the game comes down to a situation pitting your strength against their weakness. We were given exactly that in this game and just couldn't execute.
Quote: @"MaroonBells" said:
@"ArizonaViking" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
D gives up 31 points to a 2-7 team, and we're talking about Cousins?
Jfc
This year records are meaningless. I don't blame Cousins at all. He actually played a very good game. But I blame the offense more than the defense.
The defense is what it is. It's held together with stuff you find in your junk drawer. It's been playing out of its mind the last several weeks, but considering who they are, we're just going to get mixed results. And you certainly cannot count on them to put a game away.
But we SHOULD be able to count on our offense. One of the best running games in the NFL against the 2nd worst run defense in the NFL. We had a chance to put the game away pitting our strength against their weakness. And we couldn't do it.
It was like the Seattle game. I was screaming at the TV..."you CANNOT give this team the ball back." You give them the ball back, you lose. The defense will not hold. It just won't. Same thing in this game.
Have you considered with a half-ass defense that yields way too many yards and points, that the offense has been put in too many situations to win it at the end...and quietly hoping Cousins fails at the end?
Yeah, but whether we like it or not, that's how we have to win. To say otherwise is not being honest with yourself.
We've known from the very beginning that this was not going to be a good defense. We've been able to put a few good defensive games together through hard coaching and a couple of young players making big plays in key moments. But it's not sustainable.
At the end of the day, good teams know who they are. They rely on their strengths and try to mitigate weakness. And you thank God when the game comes down to a situation pitting your strength against their weakness. We were given exactly that in this game and just couldn't execute.
To a point, you are correct. But, should it always have to come to this? If the defense would have stopped just one of the Dallas scoring drive, would we be having this conversation? No. I'm looking at the big picture...the entire game, not the last 1:40 minutes.
Quote: @"ArizonaViking" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"ArizonaViking" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
D gives up 31 points to a 2-7 team, and we're talking about Cousins?
Jfc
This year records are meaningless. I don't blame Cousins at all. He actually played a very good game. But I blame the offense more than the defense.
The defense is what it is. It's held together with stuff you find in your junk drawer. It's been playing out of its mind the last several weeks, but considering who they are, we're just going to get mixed results. And you certainly cannot count on them to put a game away.
But we SHOULD be able to count on our offense. One of the best running games in the NFL against the 2nd worst run defense in the NFL. We had a chance to put the game away pitting our strength against their weakness. And we couldn't do it.
It was like the Seattle game. I was screaming at the TV..."you CANNOT give this team the ball back." You give them the ball back, you lose. The defense will not hold. It just won't. Same thing in this game.
Have you considered with a half-ass defense that yields way too many yards and points, that the offense has been put in too many situations to win it at the end...and quietly hoping Cousins fails at the end?
Yeah, but whether we like it or not, that's how we have to win. To say otherwise is not being honest with yourself.
We've known from the very beginning that this was not going to be a good defense. We've been able to put a few good defensive games together through hard coaching and a couple of young players making big plays in key moments. But it's not sustainable.
At the end of the day, good teams know who they are. They rely on their strengths and try to mitigate weakness. And you thank God when the game comes down to a situation pitting your strength against their weakness. We were given exactly that in this game and just couldn't execute.
To a point, you are correct. But, should it always have to come to this? If the defense would have stopped just one more Dallas scoring drive, would we be having this conversation? No.
Of course not, but just pretending our defense is good is not the answer. The answer is realizing the truth, that your defense is vulnerable, that it has to be protected, and to be more urgent when you have the ball with a chance to close it out before letting your weakness (defense) back on the field to be exploited by a very good offense. We did the same thing in Chicago--gave them a shot at the end. The only reason we pulled that one out was because the only thing worse than our defense was the Chicago offense. But that could've ended differently.
I dont know what Cook's final stats were? Better than Zeke's I'm sure.
Dallas D didnt allow him to dominate though.
This is a 6 maybe 7 win team this year. I've been enjoying watching Thielen's crazy TD's, JJ's development, Eric Kendricks having a great season with no Pierce or Hunter.
Vikings have a bottom 5 D in the NFL. It is what it is this year...
in all this talk about the O or the D, we knew before the season started that the D was going to need the O to carry the team this year (Lord knows that the D has done more than their share of carrying the load the last 5 years) so I can totally understand the frustration of those that put it on the O. Now Cousins doesnt call the plays, but he is supposed to be the guy that rallies that side of the ball and he doesnt do that for shit. the players around him shrink just as he does when the plays need to be made whether its the OL or the skill guys dropping the ball or Kirk just flat out making a bad read or throw. We have enough talent on O there is no Fn reason that they have to wait until the 4th quarter to make shit happen, no fucking reason that they play the game the way they do, play calling yesterday was a fucking joke most of the time, predictable as fuck and the players rarely tried to impose their will and simply went through the motions. AT JJ and Cook put in the effort but the rest of them looked like they spend saturday night at a strip club. absolutely fucking pathetic.
While Mahomes and Rodgers rallied, Kirk Cousins misses a chance for a clutch Vikings momentThere are few tools more useful in the tradition of quarterback mythmaking than the game-winning drive. Kirk Cousins had a chance to add to his legacy in the final minute of the Vikings loss to Dallas.
There are few tools more useful in the tradition of quarterback mythmaking — that act of casting a passer as some type of John Wayne-esque alpha male who keeps his cool when the stakes are highest — than the game-winning drive.
Joe Montana built his legacy on pristine statistics (11 TDs and zero interceptions in Super Bowls) and tales of his unflappability (as the 49ers were about to begin their game-winning march in Super Bowl XXIII, Montana, as the story goes, famously spotted comedian John Candy in the stands). John Elway’s expansive career — which included three Super Bowl losses in the 1980s before two wins in the 1990s — is often headlined by “The Drive,” the game-tying 98-yard effort he led in the 1986 AFC title game. Eli Manning’s case for a Hall of Fame selection will be built largely on two postseason runs (2007 and 2011) that ended with Super Bowl drives to beat Tom Brady (who came by his first two rings via game-winning field goal drives and his fifth with a comeback to force the first overtime Super Bowl ever). If the most-photographed men on a football team build their legacies one snapshot at a time, game-winning drives provide the indelible moments that follow them forever.
That’s true of Kirk Cousins, too. His famous “You like that!” remark came after he completed nine of 11 passes for 76 yards and the game-winning touchdown with 24 seconds left in Washington’s 31-30 victory over Tampa Bay in 2015, and the overtime drive he led for his first playoff win in January against the Saints. The win helped Cousins squelch one of the most frequently-repeated narratives about him — that he’d never won a playoff game. He repeated his “You like that!” catchphrase for teammates in the locker room after the game, and coach Mike Zimmer dryly referenced it a week ago in Chicago, after congratulating Cousins for ending an 0-9 record on Monday nights with a game-winning drive early in the fourth quarter against the Bears.
Drives like the one against the Saints, which came after Cousins had thrown for only 179 yards without a touchdown in regulation, are profitable, too. When asked about the possibility of signing Cousins to a new deal at the NFL combine — weeks before the Vikings finalized a two-year, $66 million extension with the QB — general manager Rick Spielman referred to the Saints game as a “big signature win,” shortly after he mentioned the 20-point second-half comeback Cousins directed against the Broncos last year. Long ago, the Vikings often cited Christian Ponder’s performance in a win-or-go home season 2012 season finale against the Packers as proof he could take the next step as a quarterback.
But on Sunday, when Patrick Mahomes orchestrated a game-winning 75-yard touchdown drive to beat the Raiders and Aaron Rodgers led a drive for a game-tying field goal around the same time the Vikings went four-and-out to lose to the Cowboys by three, critiques resurfaced about Cousins in the clutch. A day after the Vikings’ third loss by a field goal or less, it’s worth looking at Cousins’ record in high-pressure moments and attempting to put it in context.
We should acknowledge first that last-minute drives — when offenses must abandon the run game and operate with a condensed playbook against a defense that has the clock on its side and can go after the quarterback — are not environments conducive to consistent success. They constitute a relatively small aspect of a quarterback’s body of work, and a larger sample size isn’t necessarily a good thing, since it often means a quarterback is playing for a team that finds itself behind in the closing minutes. It should perhaps come as no surprise that since 2015 (the year Cousins became a full-time starter), the quarterback who has thrown the most passes in the final four minutes of a game where his team trailed by eight points or less is Philip Rivers, with 187 attempts.
But even when measuring a relatively small body of work, the quarterbacks with the best numbers in last-minute situations are the names you’d expect. Mahomes has the NFL’s best passer rating (115.6) of quarterbacks who’ve thrown at least 50 passes since 2015, according to Pro Football Reference. After the retired Andrew Luck comes Ben Roethlisberger (105.0), Drew Brees (97.6), Ryan Tannehill (97.0) and Russell Wilson (93.1). Andy Dalton, who led the Cowboys’ comeback against the Vikings on Sunday, is actually next at 92.9, just in front of Brady at 92.0.
Cousins’ passer rating in such situations — 73.1 — ranks 20th of the 33 quarterbacks who’ve thrown at least 50 passes since 2015. He’s actually just behind Rodgers, who comes in 19th at 75.4, but while Rodgers has built his narrative with 10 fourth-quarter scores or game-winning drives in the final four minutes since 2015, Cousins has only done it six times (to go with two ties).
What makes a player “clutch” is something of a nebulous concept in sports, but last-minute drives frequently reward elements of quarterbacking — namely the ability to operate quickly or improvise on broken plays — that aren’t necessarily Cousins’ strengths. He’s also made no secret of the fact he’s better when he has a complementary running game; last-minute situations often take that option out of his hands.
Even though the Vikings blew a double-digit lead in a 31-30 loss to the Titans in Week 3, the postgame focus was on a failed closing drive that Mike Zimmer called “chaotic.” The coach focused on the Vikings’ defense and penalties on Sunday less than the game-ending four-and-out after a day where Cousins had led the Vikings back from a nine-point halftime deficit with three second-half TD passes.
But the Vikings got the ball back with 1:37 to play on Sunday, needing only a field goal to tie the game with a timeout at their disposal. Cousins looked for Adam Thielen twice on difficult throws after Justin Jefferson’s second-down drop, and was left with a familiar lament.
“Got the completion on first down, second down – didn’t get it,” Cousins said. “Third down, didn’t get the out route to Adam there, either. Fourth down, played off schedule and didn’t get that either, so it was just kind of a couple different plays."
https://www.startribune.com/while-mahome...573167451/
Quote: @"MaroonBells" said:
@"ArizonaViking" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"ArizonaViking" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
D gives up 31 points to a 2-7 team, and we're talking about Cousins?
Jfc
This year records are meaningless. I don't blame Cousins at all. He actually played a very good game. But I blame the offense more than the defense.
The defense is what it is. It's held together with stuff you find in your junk drawer. It's been playing out of its mind the last several weeks, but considering who they are, we're just going to get mixed results. And you certainly cannot count on them to put a game away.
But we SHOULD be able to count on our offense. One of the best running games in the NFL against the 2nd worst run defense in the NFL. We had a chance to put the game away pitting our strength against their weakness. And we couldn't do it.
It was like the Seattle game. I was screaming at the TV..."you CANNOT give this team the ball back." You give them the ball back, you lose. The defense will not hold. It just won't. Same thing in this game.
Have you considered with a half-ass defense that yields way too many yards and points, that the offense has been put in too many situations to win it at the end...and quietly hoping Cousins fails at the end?
Yeah, but whether we like it or not, that's how we have to win. To say otherwise is not being honest with yourself.
We've known from the very beginning that this was not going to be a good defense. We've been able to put a few good defensive games together through hard coaching and a couple of young players making big plays in key moments. But it's not sustainable.
At the end of the day, good teams know who they are. They rely on their strengths and try to mitigate weakness. And you thank God when the game comes down to a situation pitting your strength against their weakness. We were given exactly that in this game and just couldn't execute.
To a point, you are correct. But, should it always have to come to this? If the defense would have stopped just one more Dallas scoring drive, would we be having this conversation? No.
Of course not, but just pretending our defense is good is not the answer. The answer is realizing the truth, that your defense is vulnerable, that it has to be protected, and to be more urgent when you have the ball with a chance to close it out before letting your weakness (defense) back on the field to be exploited by a very good offense. We did the same thing in Chicago--gave them a shot at the end. The only reason we pulled that one out was because the only thing worse than our defense was the Chicago offense. But that could've ended differently.
Agree Maroon coaching at the end of games continues to be a problem. I am ready to move on from Zimmer after this season. Give him the rest of the year to coach up our defense rookies which is pretty much the only thing he is good at or at least was.
Quote: @"JimmyinSD" said:
in all this talk about the O or the D, we knew before the season started that the D was going to need the O to carry the team this year (Lord knows that the D has done more than their share of carrying the load the last 5 years) so I can totally understand the frustration of those that put it on the O. Now Cousins doesnt call the plays, but he is supposed to be the guy that rallies that side of the ball and he doesnt do that for shit. the players around him shrink just as he does when the plays need to be made whether its the OL or the skill guys dropping the ball or Kirk just flat out making a bad read or throw. We have enough talent on O there is no Fn reason that they have to wait until the 4th quarter to make shit happen, no fucking reason that they play the game the way they do, play calling yesterday was a fucking joke most of the time, predictable as fuck and the players rarely tried to impose their will and simply went through the motions. AT JJ and Cook put in the effort but the rest of them looked like they spend saturday night at a strip club. absolutely fucking pathetic.
Well, I know we all love him and it's hard to criticize one of our best players, but JJ had a bad drop in one of those final series that, if caught, may have helped change the outcome. If I remember right he was past the first down marker and looking for more when he should've just focused on catching the ball, considering the situation.
Quote: @"MaroonBells" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
in all this talk about the O or the D, we knew before the season started that the D was going to need the O to carry the team this year (Lord knows that the D has done more than their share of carrying the load the last 5 years) so I can totally understand the frustration of those that put it on the O. Now Cousins doesnt call the plays, but he is supposed to be the guy that rallies that side of the ball and he doesnt do that for shit. the players around him shrink just as he does when the plays need to be made whether its the OL or the skill guys dropping the ball or Kirk just flat out making a bad read or throw. We have enough talent on O there is no Fn reason that they have to wait until the 4th quarter to make shit happen, no fucking reason that they play the game the way they do, play calling yesterday was a fucking joke most of the time, predictable as fuck and the players rarely tried to impose their will and simply went through the motions. AT JJ and Cook put in the effort but the rest of them looked like they spend saturday night at a strip club. absolutely fucking pathetic.
Well, I know we all love him and it's hard to criticize one of our best players, but JJ had a bad drop in one of those final series that, if caught, may have helped change the outcome. If I remember right he was past the first down marker and looking for more when he should've just focused on catching the ball, considering the situation.
I agree, but I can overlook 1 miscue by a rookie when things are ratcheted up. I am basically pissed that the game came down to that drive, no Fn excuse for the first half being as bad as it was or the last 2 drives. all things considered I would call that a team loss, every aspect of the team failed at critical times yesterday.
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