Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ StickyBun said:
Nut job. And this is a person speaking to a congregation who have put their faith in him. Ridiculous.
Pretty sure you don't know how that works. I can't speak for everyone, but I've never put "faith" into any pastor/priest. Their job is to lead a congregation not somehow become something worthy of faith. In fact if you're not questioning and verifying what they're preaching on Sunday you're not doing your job as a believer in Christ.
You're putting your faith in the priest as a leader. Possibly a mentor to some in the congregation. I was raised Catholic, I 'know how it works'. Rather, I'll say I know how its supposed to work. That's where the faith in the pastor/priest comes, its not the faith that you have in God. That's different. In fact, many Catholics put blind faith into their priests and look where that got them.
Trust me, I know more than I want to know about organized religion. IMO, Its a sham and hypocritical beyond anything. If you get something from it, good for you. And how do you 'verify' something that is faith-based?
I was raised Lutheran, went to private Lutheran school, send my kids to private Christian school and have been an elder at my church. Maybe Lutherans are raised different (my entire Mom's side is Catholic so I've got a rough idea on them as well) and taught to question authority but I would be horrified if my children said they had "faith" in their preacher. Lutherans did become the original protestants.
You verify something by reading your bible. Obviously this is something you missed in your Catholic upbringing. I'm aware that we're probably splitting hairs but faith is unquestioning devotion to someone/something. Trust which is what I would say is a more appropriate term for the relationship between a pastor and their congregation is something that can and does get questioned and can be broken. I have faith in my Savior. I'd even go so far as to say I have faith in my Wife. I trust my mechanic to tell me what is wrong with my car. I trust my priest to lead me down the right path but in both cases I'm going to question the mechanic and the priest in my head.
You're welcome to feel however you'd like about organized religion. The Big man upstairs gave you that right.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ StickyBun said:
Nut job. And this is a person speaking to a congregation who have put their faith in him. Ridiculous.
Pretty sure you don't know how that works. I can't speak for everyone, but I've never put "faith" into any pastor/priest. Their job is to lead a congregation not somehow become something worthy of faith. In fact if you're not questioning and verifying what they're preaching on Sunday you're not doing your job as a believer in Christ.
You're putting your faith in the priest as a leader. Possibly a mentor to some in the congregation. I was raised Catholic, I 'know how it works'. Rather, I'll say I know how its supposed to work. That's where the faith in the pastor/priest comes, its not the faith that you have in God. That's different. In fact, many Catholics put blind faith into their priests and look where that got them.
Trust me, I know more than I want to know about organized religion. IMO, Its a sham and hypocritical beyond anything. If you get something from it, good for you. And how do you 'verify' something that is faith-based?
I was raised Lutheran, went to private Lutheran school, send my kids to private Christian school and have been an elder at my church. Maybe Lutherans are raised different (my entire Mom's side is Catholic so I've got a rough idea on them as well) and taught to question authority but I would be horrified if my children said they had "faith" in their preacher. Lutherans did become the original protestants.
You verify something by reading your bible. Obviously this is something you missed in your Catholic upbringing. I'm aware that we're probably splitting hairs but faith is unquestioning devotion to someone/something. Trust which is what I would say is a more appropriate term for the relationship between a pastor and their congregation is something that can and does get questioned and can be broken. I have faith in my Savior. I'd even go so far as to say I have faith in my Wife. I trust my mechanic to tell me what is wrong with my car. I trust my priest to lead me down the right path but in both cases I'm going to question the mechanic and the priest in my head.
You're welcome to feel however you'd like about organized religion. The Big man upstairs gave you that right.
Depends on what type of Lutheran you are, word has it some of you are following the anti-christ, so that gives you no cred online.
Quote: @SFVikeFan said:
@ pumpf said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Abortion is the only word that can make followers of Christ vote against everything Christ ever talked about because of one issue that Christ never talked about.
You're wrong about both... but you prefer to be ignorant of what the Bible says (and don't even believe that it's "true"), so there's no point in arguing with you. But, as a rule, I feel compelled to point out that you're most definitely wrong.
Pumpf,
Do you believe in the literal interpretation line by line of the Bible, or do you believe some parts were written in metaphorical terms?
I'll give you my take on this and Pumpf can tell you I'm wrong. I had a client who has studied the Hebrew, Greek and several version of the English text of the bible. It is fascinating to read her notes on pretty much line by line of the bible going over the "meaning" and the translations. There were many instances where original text words had either multiple meanings or our current English word has multiple meanings and depending on their interpretation you could change the meaning of the text through translation.
I'll say this, I think the bible was inspired writing. I think through the years of translation we may or may not have it right. Generally I think that the bible is there to lead, but man certainly has had an influence on the current text.
Quote: @pumpf said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Abortion is the only word that can make followers of Christ vote against everything Christ ever talked about because of one issue that Christ never talked about.
You're wrong about both... but you prefer to be ignorant of what the Bible says (and don't even believe that it's "true"), so there's no point in arguing with you. But, as a rule, I feel compelled to point out that you're most definitely wrong.
He isn't really wrong, he is gas-lighting. He knows better, but uses false arguments to further his "truth".
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
Abortion is the only word that can make followers of Christ vote against everything Christ ever talked about because of one issue that Christ never talked about.
WTF are you talking about?
I politically identify as a fiscal conservative with a heavy tilt towards libertarianism. I'm anti-deficit spending, anti-federal reserve, pro-life, anti-war, anti-globalist with a whole host of anti/pro ideas beyond that list. When I say that I'm pro-life. I'm not anti-mother's choice. I'm pro-babies choice. They should get a say in whether they live or die. Our constitution protects your right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Many times I cannot find a candidate that fits me exactly. Even the ones I get close on are at most 80ish percent in agreement with my views and then like all politicians, when they get into office they do whatever is going to give them the best chance of re-election anyway.
You can be pro-life and not think we need a nanny state to hand out everything to everyone all the time. Neighbors help neighbors. I volunteer quite a bit of my time and money helping those in need because I don't think paying the government to do so is a very efficient way to conduct those types of services.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ StickyBun said:
Nut job. And this is a person speaking to a congregation who have put their faith in him. Ridiculous.
Pretty sure you don't know how that works. I can't speak for everyone, but I've never put "faith" into any pastor/priest. Their job is to lead a congregation not somehow become something worthy of faith. In fact if you're not questioning and verifying what they're preaching on Sunday you're not doing your job as a believer in Christ.
You're putting your faith in the priest as a leader. Possibly a mentor to some in the congregation. I was raised Catholic, I 'know how it works'. Rather, I'll say I know how its supposed to work. That's where the faith in the pastor/priest comes, its not the faith that you have in God. That's different. In fact, many Catholics put blind faith into their priests and look where that got them.
Trust me, I know more than I want to know about organized religion. IMO, Its a sham and hypocritical beyond anything. If you get something from it, good for you. And how do you 'verify' something that is faith-based?
I was raised Lutheran, went to private Lutheran school, send my kids to private Christian school and have been an elder at my church. Maybe Lutherans are raised different (my entire Mom's side is Catholic so I've got a rough idea on them as well) and taught to question authority but I would be horrified if my children said they had "faith" in their preacher. Lutherans did become the original protestants.
You verify something by reading your bible. Obviously this is something you missed in your Catholic upbringing. I'm aware that we're probably splitting hairs but faith is unquestioning devotion to someone/something. Trust which is what I would say is a more appropriate term for the relationship between a pastor and their congregation is something that can and does get questioned and can be broken. I have faith in my Savior. I'd even go so far as to say I have faith in my Wife. I trust my mechanic to tell me what is wrong with my car. I trust my priest to lead me down the right path but in both cases I'm going to question the mechanic and the priest in my head.
You're welcome to feel however you'd like about organized religion. The Big man upstairs gave you that right.
Didn't miss anything reading my bible, its not something that should be taken as a literal interpretation. And Catholics weren't taught to question anything religious or any figure like a priest at the church. This is why they were able to molest so many boys. Priests, bishops, etc. were all on hallowed ground by Catholics (not anymore however). Ridiculousness. And there are 1.2 billion Catholics in the world.
There is no verifying anything faith-based. The bible is not a document like an encyclopedia.
Quote: @BigAl99 said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Abortion is the only word that can make followers of Christ vote against everything Christ ever talked about because of one issue that Christ never talked about.
Very gross false generalization. Being pro-life has not caused me to vote against ANYTHING that Christ taught.
You make it easy, you said vote and I picked two easy hypocrisies for "pro-lifers". Post fetus love and supporting state sponsored murder.
I suppose you think you got me? I used "vote" in reply to MB's comment were he states "Abortion is the only word that can make followers of Christ vote against everything Christ talked about"
His statement is totally false, being pro-life has not lead me to vote against "everything Christ taught", in fact, I can't think of one area that I have voted against Christ's teachings. You do not know me at all, so please stop making false assumptions.
My statement is only false if you do not support Donald Trump. There are millions of pro-life Christians who are disgusted by Donald Trump and refuse to vote for him. You're obviously one. And I respect that.
No, your original statement implies that being pro-life means a person will ALWAYS vote against Christ's teaching. Christ had an awful lot to say and being pro-life is not contradictory to his teaching. Your generalization is totally false.
Given your most recent clarifying comment, you really should reduce your statement to something like "pro-lifers only vote for pro-life candidates" which is only true if someone is a single issue voter. In my part of the country, our local and state candidates are nearly all pro-life. Being pro-abortion in Idaho is the fast track for a resounding defeat at the polls. And not just for abortion but for other progressive positions.
ALWAYS, is probably a tish of an overstatement, how about a high probability, just like when you speak of absolutes and generalizations of others. Face it being a pro-lifer is identifying as being in a political group, you are perceived as being part of who you hang out with. Double edged sword.
Difference of opinion, I think the probability is very low. Have a great day!
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Abortion is the only word that can make followers of Christ vote against everything Christ ever talked about because of one issue that Christ never talked about.
WTF are you talking about?
I politically identify as a fiscal conservative with a heavy tilt towards libertarianism. I'm anti-deficit spending, anti-federal reserve, pro-life, anti-war, anti-globalist with a whole host of anti/pro ideas beyond that list. When I say that I'm pro-life. I'm not anti-mother's choice. I'm pro-babies choice. They should get a say in whether they live or die. Our constitution protects your right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Many times I cannot find a candidate that fits me exactly. Even the ones I get close on are at most 80ish percent in agreement with my views and then like all politicians, when they get into office they do whatever is going to give them the best chance of re-election anyway.
You can be pro-life and not think we need a nanny state to hand out everything to everyone all the time. Neighbors help neighbors. I volunteer quite a bit of my time and money helping those in need because I don't think paying the government to do so is a very efficient way to conduct those types of services.
Many Christian supporters of Trump justify their support of an obviously immoral man through a philosophy of the end justifying the means. The end being anti-Roe justices on the supreme court. If that doesn't apply to you--and I didn't think it did since I believe you've stated that you didn't vote for him, nor do you intend to--then I'm not talking about you. It does apply to many though.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Abortion is the only word that can make followers of Christ vote against everything Christ ever talked about because of one issue that Christ never talked about.
WTF are you talking about?
I politically identify as a fiscal conservative with a heavy tilt towards libertarianism. I'm anti-deficit spending, anti-federal reserve, pro-life, anti-war, anti-globalist with a whole host of anti/pro ideas beyond that list. When I say that I'm pro-life. I'm not anti-mother's choice. I'm pro-babies choice. They should get a say in whether they live or die. Our constitution protects your right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Many times I cannot find a candidate that fits me exactly. Even the ones I get close on are at most 80ish percent in agreement with my views and then like all politicians, when they get into office they do whatever is going to give them the best chance of re-election anyway.
You can be pro-life and not think we need a nanny state to hand out everything to everyone all the time. Neighbors help neighbors. I volunteer quite a bit of my time and money helping those in need because I don't think paying the government to do so is a very efficient way to conduct those types of services.
Many Christian supporters of Trump justify their support of an obviously immoral man through a philosophy of the end justifying the means. The end being anti-Roe justices on the supreme court. If that doesn't apply to you--and I didn't think it did since I believe you've stated that you didn't vote for him, nor do you intend to--then I'm not talking about you. It does apply to many though.
Roe v Wade isnt going anywhere. It wouldnt matter if every justice was one slant vs the other.
The Republucans are extremely proficent at using it as a wedge issue to keep that sweet sweet cash flowing. Had republican given one iota about Roe v Wade they could have made significant changes during the early Bush 2.0 years. They had all the cards and played none of them.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Abortion is the only word that can make followers of Christ vote against everything Christ ever talked about because of one issue that Christ never talked about.
WTF are you talking about?
I politically identify as a fiscal conservative with a heavy tilt towards libertarianism. I'm anti-deficit spending, anti-federal reserve, pro-life, anti-war, anti-globalist with a whole host of anti/pro ideas beyond that list. When I say that I'm pro-life. I'm not anti-mother's choice. I'm pro-babies choice. They should get a say in whether they live or die. Our constitution protects your right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Many times I cannot find a candidate that fits me exactly. Even the ones I get close on are at most 80ish percent in agreement with my views and then like all politicians, when they get into office they do whatever is going to give them the best chance of re-election anyway.
You can be pro-life and not think we need a nanny state to hand out everything to everyone all the time. Neighbors help neighbors. I volunteer quite a bit of my time and money helping those in need because I don't think paying the government to do so is a very efficient way to conduct those types of services.
Many Christian supporters of Trump justify their support of an obviously immoral man through a philosophy of the end justifying the means. The end being anti-Roe justices on the supreme court. If that doesn't apply to you--and I didn't think it did since I believe you've stated that you didn't vote for him, nor do you intend to--then I'm not talking about you. It does apply to many though.
Roe v Wade isnt going anywhere. It wouldnt matter if every justice was one slant vs the other.
The Republucans are extremely proficent at using it as a wedge issue to keep that sweet sweet cash flowing. Had republican given one iota about Roe v Wade they could have made significant changes during the early Bush 2.0 years. They had all the cards and played none of them.
Yes, or during Trumps first 2 years. They didn't defund PP when they had the chance.
That said, I love when the left lectures Christians on being Christian, something they know little of and mock as lunacy at every chance. Yet they use the standards to berate someone, like Trump, yet hold parades to proclaim their decadence. Defend netflix, but condemn Trump. Yeah, no hypocrisy there.
Most people I know don't care for Trump's approach, but do believe he is doing good for the country. And this supposed racist has been lauded by the left, mostly back when he was exhibiting the behavior they are now condemning.
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