True leadership

[Guest]

@medaille said:

@SFVikeFan said:
Can someone please explain Obamagate?

Trump tweeted out yesterday to have Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham to open an investigation and haul Obama in for questioning:


“Time is running out. Get tough and move quickly, or it will be too late. The Dems are vicious, but got caught,” added Trump, who has asserted without evidence that Obama acted improperly. “They MUST pay a big price for what they have done to our Country. Don’t let them get away with this!”


On one hand, Trump and his lawyers have claimed that as POTUS he can use DOJ to investigate anyone at anytime and a President can’t commit crimes in office ... but now he wants to bring charges against Obama for what he did as POTUS, and subpoena him to testify in front of Congress (while Trump refused to honor Congressional subpoenas during impeachment)?  


And does this mean after Trump leaves office, the Dems can force Trump to testify about his corruption after he leaves office?


Raise your hand if you spot the irony at work here ...

I don't pay enough attention to this to give you a proper answer, but here's what you'd get if you googled it, which might be of value to you.



https://www.conservapedia.com/Obamagate_timeline

Let me ask you this:

You are being tabbed to be the next Director of National Security for the USA.


Why do you need a lawyer to talk to the FBI?  Why would you lie to the FBI in the first place?  


Unless you have something to hide ... which tells me you’re completely unfit for the job to begin with, unless you’re joining the most corrupt administration in history, then it seems more like a prerequisite ...


Can someone please answer:  
1). When we discovered Russians helped Trump win by interfering in our elections, why were Republicans so eager to dismiss the sanctions that Obama put in place in retaliation for the interference?

2). And why now won’t Republicans do anything to safeguard this election?  


Can you imagine the outrage on Fox News if the tables were turned and this was the Dems welcoming help with Russia with no retaliation ....

[Guest]

@SFVikeFan said:

@medaille said:

@SFVikeFan said:
Can someone please explain Obamagate?

Trump tweeted out yesterday to have Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham to open an investigation and haul Obama in for questioning:


“Time is running out. Get tough and move quickly, or it will be too late. The Dems are vicious, but got caught,” added Trump, who has asserted without evidence that Obama acted improperly. “They MUST pay a big price for what they have done to our Country. Don’t let them get away with this!”


On one hand, Trump and his lawyers have claimed that as POTUS he can use DOJ to investigate anyone at anytime and a President can’t commit crimes in office ... but now he wants to bring charges against Obama for what he did as POTUS, and subpoena him to testify in front of Congress (while Trump refused to honor Congressional subpoenas during impeachment)?  


And does this mean after Trump leaves office, the Dems can force Trump to testify about his corruption after he leaves office?


Raise your hand if you spot the irony at work here ...

I don't pay enough attention to this to give you a proper answer, but here's what you'd get if you googled it, which might be of value to you.



https://www.conservapedia.com/Obamagate_timeline

Let me ask you this:

You are being tabbed to be the next Director of National Security for the USA.


Why do you need a lawyer to talk to the FBI?  Why would you lie to the FBI in the first place?  


Unless you have something to hide ... which tells me you’re completely unfit for the job to begin with, unless you’re joining the most corrupt administration in history, then it seems more like a prerequisite ...


Can someone please answer:  
1). When we discovered Russians helped Trump win by interfering in our elections, why were Republicans so eager to dismiss the sanctions that Obama put in place in retaliation for the interference?

2). And why now won’t Republicans do anything to safeguard this election?  


Can you imagine the outrage on Fox News if the tables were turned and this was the Dems welcoming help with Russia with no retaliation ....

This is like asking the girl who was raped why she wore slutty clothes.  You asked about Obamagate, and then you ignored everything that was said, and then tried to shift blame.    Russian interference is a completely separate issue, why are you shifting to that instead of staying on topic?  Even if you assume the republicans are dirty with regards to Russia, the establishment democrats are dirtier, and you can't just ignore that.  We've had 3 years of sham investigations trying to make Trump look bad based on flimsy evidence that they manufactured rather than discovered.  We can spend some time digging into the corruption on the blue side of the aisle.

[Guest]

@purplefaithful said:
It's a shame team blue cannot come-up with better candidates than what they've put forward this time and Hilary too.

Someone who can appeal to those "in the middle" and some of the Bernie bros and Trump base. 

I dont think Biden is that candidate and its going to be the swing-states that will decide the electoral vote. Places like No. Carolina etc.

I think the same can be said for team Red as well.  There is no reason that a decent human cant do some of the positive things that Trump has done... maybe it takes a self absorbed person to get the job done with these foreign counter parts that dont think their shit stinks either?  

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:

@purplefaithful said:
It's a shame team blue cannot come-up with better candidates than what they've put forward this time and Hilary too.

Someone who can appeal to those "in the middle" and some of the Bernie bros and Trump base. 

I dont think Biden is that candidate and its going to be the swing-states that will decide the electoral vote. Places like No. Carolina etc.

I think the same can be said for team Red as well.  There is no reason that a decent human cant do some of the positive things that Trump has done... maybe it takes a self absorbed person to get the job done with these foreign counter parts that dont think their shit stinks either?  

I finished the Ken Burns documentary on The Roosevelts last night. Fantastic piece of work and I highly recommend.

In the 50's and early 60's Eleanor was quite active politically and a supporter of Adlai Stevenson II who lost first to Eisenhower in the general elections then Kennedy for the Dem nomination.

At the time she was calling for the Dems to put forward someone young and who could unite the country, a fresh thinker. She eventually warmed to JFK. 

I digress, but as I was watching this, I couldn't help but think team blue is at the same cross-roads again...

 

[Guest]

Here PF,  this pretty much sums it up...

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:
Here PF,  this pretty much sums it up...

True in many ways...

That said, (as much as I grew-up a conservative republican in my younger years)  its a clear choice for me today for which party best represents my own personal values and priorities...

[Guest]

@purplefaithful said:

@JimmyinSD said:
Here PF,  this pretty much sums it up...

True in many ways...

That said, (as much as I grew-up a conservative republican in my younger years)  its a clear choice for me today for which party best represents my own personal values and priorities...

and thats what it should be about,  and the same for me, its the notion that we have to no be civil to each other because we view the world differently is IMO the biggest issue facing this country,  not the fact that we dont agree on its direction.

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:

@purplefaithful said:
It's a shame team blue cannot come-up with better candidates than what they've put forward this time and Hilary too.

Someone who can appeal to those "in the middle" and some of the Bernie bros and Trump base. 

I dont think Biden is that candidate and its going to be the swing-states that will decide the electoral vote. Places like No. Carolina etc.

I think the same can be said for team Red as well.  There is no reason that a decent human cant do some of the positive things that Trump has done... maybe it takes a self absorbed person to get the job done with these foreign counter parts that dont think their shit stinks either?  

I think we just have a system that is optimized for
sociopaths to excel in, and a system that is designed to centralize power in as
few as hands as possible.  The two party
primary system is setup to ensure that all candidates that challenge the
establishment are weeded out prior to being able to be voted for, and it’s
pretty much universally successful, with one exception depending on whether you
think Trump is establishment or not.


The only way out of this mess is to eliminate the gatekeeping
and obstacles that prevent honest, good-hearted candidates from succeeding, and
to figure out how to shine a spotlight on the evil things people do to make it
less fulfilling for them to do sociopathic things.
I think we would get immediately better results if we:

• Implement
  instant runoff voting (such that we eliminate the whole only voting for
  the lesser of two evils)
  
• Eliminate
  the primary system (no point in eliminating candidates early with instant
  runoff voting)
  
• Ban
  political ads
  
• Eliminate
  the simple majority voting at the Federal level.  Make it a 2/3 or ¾ majority needed to
  pass a bill.  We shouldn’t be
  passing controversial bills at the Federal level.  If 49% of the country hates your idea, the
  51% shouldn’t force the 49% to implement it.
  
• Eliminate
  pork in bills, by allowing bills to be voted on in an itemized
  matter.  Each person votes on all
  the line items and only the ones that meet the 2/3 or ¾ majority get
  implemented.  This will get rid of a
  lot of the “if you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours” politics.

I do think Trumps gigantic ego is a huge advantage for him
in his current position.  I think any
politician who cared about the people a lot, would be dragged hard by the
establishment.  He’s been run through the
wringer, as have been all the anti-establishment Democrats.  I think all but the biggest egoists would
have been broken by the onslaught of the establishment and the establishment media.

[Guest]

@purplefaithful said:

@JimmyinSD said:
Here PF,  this pretty much sums it up...

True in many ways...

That said, (as much as I grew-up a conservative republican in my younger years)  its a clear choice for me today for which party best represents my own personal values and priorities...

I was a republican as well. Voted for Reagan in '84. I stopped being a republican when it started taking its cues from asshats like Rush Limbaugh in the 90s. Since then it's become a caricature of itself. The Democratic Party is not without its flaws, but at least it's not home to juvenile Trumpism, antiscience and white nationalism. Comparing the two parties like the meme above, as if the Dems are just as bad, is fucking ridiculous. 

[Guest]

@MaroonBells said:

@purplefaithful said:

@JimmyinSD said:
Here PF,  this pretty much sums it up...

True in many ways...

That said, (as much as I grew-up a conservative republican in my younger years)  its a clear choice for me today for which party best represents my own personal values and priorities...

I was a republican as well. Voted for Reagan in '84.

Me too...

I found something comforting (yet disturbing) in referring to the first lady as mommy lol!