Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
No desire to start over and blow it up and start over because people are impatient and can't see how good we have it in the coaching department. I can see the criticism of Speilman. O-line, QBs and other draft related issues. But not Zimmer.
Exemplary character. And players want to play for a guy that is honest, cares about them, knows how to teach and is innovative. Players take less to come play for the Vikings. Who have we had our sites on and not gotten? Who have we wanted to keep and not kept?
Defensive genius. His defense is imitated. His defense is consistently near the top, year after year.
Adjustments. His teams adjust mid game, at the half, at the quarter, whatever. They adjust and can shut a team down.
His team pretty much owns the packers. The bears seem to have our number right now and their defense is pretty dang good. But who doesn't like owning the Packers. And not that little certificate saying you own the packers, but owning them on the field.
Yeah, I have no desire to blow it up and search for the next best thing. The chiefs have Reid. What has he done other than have great offense during the regular season? Only 1 team hoists the trophy at the end of the year. And unless your initials are BB, getting close is all you get.
i have been waiting for coaching growth, something that shows that he is recognizing his weaknesses and addressing them... he isnt.
I have seen it. His defensive scheme has adjusted consistently. Last year the scheme wasn't working against the offensive bias in the rules, so he backed off and adjusted. After the Rams game, his defense was pretty damn stout and Linval was not his usual self.
So what weaknesses can you point out that he has not addressed.
that is DC stuff, that is shit that he was doing good enough to get a chance at a HC position.
clock management, personnel matters (like knowing how to handle different types of personalities without sending them off the rails (kickers and QBs) I just dont see him becoming a great HC that has the ability to get everybody to walk through walls for him. His defenders love him, but thats a different mind set of player, offense is more fragile egos and he doesnt seem to have that approach in his arsenal.
Clock management? everyone struggles with that at times. But he has certainly gotten better.
As to fragile personalities? Shit, if they can't handle Zimmer answering questions about them, are they suited for the NFL? I highly doubt Cousins suddenly has regressed because Zimmer had to answer questions about his stupid decision in GB. Perhaps it comes from the fact that he made that stupid decision and now is over-reacting to that.
Answer me this, how many times do you think Zimmer talks to Cousins a season? Do you think he calls him into his office and sez "Don't throw another INT!"? Doubt it. But that is the way some people seem to think here. Zimmer walks down the halls raging against an idiot kicker or a stupid INT.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
No desire to start over and blow it up and start over because people are impatient and can't see how good we have it in the coaching department. I can see the criticism of Speilman. O-line, QBs and other draft related issues. But not Zimmer.
Exemplary character. And players want to play for a guy that is honest, cares about them, knows how to teach and is innovative. Players take less to come play for the Vikings. Who have we had our sites on and not gotten? Who have we wanted to keep and not kept?
Defensive genius. His defense is imitated. His defense is consistently near the top, year after year.
Adjustments. His teams adjust mid game, at the half, at the quarter, whatever. They adjust and can shut a team down.
His team pretty much owns the packers. The bears seem to have our number right now and their defense is pretty dang good. But who doesn't like owning the Packers. And not that little certificate saying you own the packers, but owning them on the field.
Yeah, I have no desire to blow it up and search for the next best thing. The chiefs have Reid. What has he done other than have great offense during the regular season? Only 1 team hoists the trophy at the end of the year. And unless your initials are BB, getting close is all you get.
i have been waiting for coaching growth, something that shows that he is recognizing his weaknesses and addressing them... he isnt.
I have seen it. His defensive scheme has adjusted consistently. Last year the scheme wasn't working against the offensive bias in the rules, so he backed off and adjusted. After the Rams game, his defense was pretty damn stout and Linval was not his usual self.
So what weaknesses can you point out that he has not addressed.
that is DC stuff, that is shit that he was doing good enough to get a chance at a HC position.
clock management, personnel matters (like knowing how to handle different types of personalities without sending them off the rails (kickers and QBs) I just dont see him becoming a great HC that has the ability to get everybody to walk through walls for him. His defenders love him, but thats a different mind set of player, offense is more fragile egos and he doesnt seem to have that approach in his arsenal.
Clock management? everyone struggles with that at times. But he has certainly gotten better.
As to fragile personalities? Shit, if they can't handle Zimmer answering questions about them, are they suited for the NFL? I highly doubt Cousins suddenly has regressed because Zimmer had to answer questions about his stupid decision in GB. Perhaps it comes from the fact that he made that stupid decision and now is over-reacting to that.
Answer me this, how many times do you think Zimmer talks to Cousins a season? Do you think he calls him into his office and sez "Don't throw another INT!"? Doubt it. But that is the way some people seem to think here. Zimmer walks down the halls raging against an idiot kicker or a stupid INT.
there is something going on up there in that locker room, and if it isnt working that is on Zimmer. I put a lot of shit on spielman, but the lockerroom stuff is the coach.
nobody defended Zimmer more than me, but I am getting tired of the same mistakes and failures.
and yes I think he makes kickers and QBs nervous. those are the 2 positions that always get the blame for a loss, no matter how much of a team failure it was.
Mike Tomlin (we never should have let him leave...) takes a lot of heat in Pittsburgh.
He is an old-school, defense-first guy like Zimmer.
But LAST NIGHT the Steelers (who's offense hasn't been clicking) were running wildcat packages successfully. Tomlin adjusted to his current predicament and did what he needed to do to win one football game.
The Bengals stink, but I'm impressed by the creativity and ability to adapt.
Does anyone here honestly think the Vikings would have the foresight to install a new offensive package like the wildcat during the week and roll it out on MNF? In my opinion... hell no!
And that's a defense-first team doing that! That is the kind of inventiveness I would love to see from Zim and our offense. Instead we do the same thing all day long against Chicago until the game is over. Our defense makes adjustments all the time and it shows. I wish the offense would do the same.
Bottom Line-
In 2019 this is an offense-driven league. Not only will this not change, it's going to keep increasing. Coaches and teams like Zimmer and the Vikings are fundamentally rowing upstream. I'm not ready to axe Zimmer yet, but unless the offense can get it together, his time may be coming to an end.
I'm prepared to wait a bit longer to see how this plays out. 2-2 (even though the 2 Ws came against cream-puff teams) is too early to make a decision. Besides, we SHOULD have beaten GB (on the road) if only KS hadn't called for a play-action pass... and Cousins hadn't then thrown an INT. If we had just run the ball, we (probably?) had won that game. Or, if Cousins hadn't thrown that INT. Either way, we are almost 3-1... with our only loss coming at a place that we never win.
But what I saw on Sunday certainly does make it worth discussing, whether or not we're a Super Bowl team... or a pretender that gets past bad teams but can't win vs. good teams.
Quote: @greediron said:
Clock management? everyone struggles with that at times. But he has certainly gotten better.
As to fragile personalities? Shit, if they can't handle Zimmer answering questions about them, are they suited for the NFL? I highly doubt Cousins suddenly has regressed because Zimmer had to answer questions about his stupid decision in GB. Perhaps it comes from the fact that he made that stupid decision and now is over-reacting to that.
Answer me this, how many times do you think Zimmer talks to Cousins a season? Do you think he calls him into his office and sez "Don't throw another INT!"? Doubt it. But that is the way some people seem to think here. Zimmer walks down the halls raging against an idiot kicker or a stupid INT.
I don't know about calling him into his office, but I DO think that Zimmer has made it clear (one way or the other) that he expects his QBs to take care of the ball (as opposed to saying that he looks to them to move the offense / score points). It seems pretty obvious to me that Zimmer's #1 criteria for a QB is their ability to manage the offense, such that the team will win with running and defense.
Defense wins championships and that's why the KC Chiefs will not be holding the Lombardi come February. They are exciting, flashy and generate a lot of press, but their defense has more gaps than a picket fence.
The Pats...love 'em or hate 'em...are the best blended team around. Not the Lambs...not the Iggles...not the Girlz. You can have a world class D and be successful in the "new" NFL. But a creative and flexible mind on offense...and at head coach...is imperative.
Quote: @pumpf said:
I'm prepared to wait a bit longer to see how this plays out. 2-2 (even though the 2 Ws came against cream-puff teams) is too early to make a decision. Besides, we SHOULD have beaten GB (on the road) if only KS hadn't called for a play-action pass... and Cousins hadn't then thrown an INT. If we had just run the ball, we (probably?) had won that game. Or, if Cousins hadn't thrown that INT. Either way, we are almost 3-1... with our only loss coming at a place that we never win.
But what I saw on Sunday certainly does make it worth discussing, whether or not we're a Super Bowl team... or a pretender that gets past bad teams but can't win vs. good teams.
What, you don't want to dismantle the entire organization after one crap game?
The biggest problem is Kirk Cousins. Fix that. If he's not permanently damaged. The next biggest problem is pass protection. That is what it is but I expect it to improve as Bradbury matures and Stefanski figures out different ways to mitigate that weakness. Still, Cousins plays well and we're likely 4-0.
Zimmer talk is crazy. I have big problems with his game prep, but he's still among the best 6 to 10 coaches in the league IMO. Be stupid to jettison him unless you were to stumble upon an obvious "upgrade" hiding under a rock. And even then, be careful what you wish for.
Spielman talk is BATSHIT crazy. Jersey-level stupid. There's probably not a person in the org more responsible for giving this team the talent it has. Keep in mind, THAT'S why we're all frustrated. If this team sucked and we played like that, it would be one thing. But this is one of the more talented rosters in the NFL. We expect more precisely becaue we're talented--because we have Thielen and Diggs and Cook and Hunter and Griffen and Kendricks and Barr and Rhodes and Harry. This team hasn't been this stacked in its entire existence.
Chicago had BACK UPS in the lineup everywhere and still kicked our asses. That isn't Spielman's fault. Fix the PROBLEM. Don't fix what ain't broken.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ pumpf said:
I'm prepared to wait a bit longer to see how this plays out. 2-2 (even though the 2 Ws came against cream-puff teams) is too early to make a decision. Besides, we SHOULD have beaten GB (on the road) if only KS hadn't called for a play-action pass... and Cousins hadn't then thrown an INT. If we had just run the ball, we (probably?) had won that game. Or, if Cousins hadn't thrown that INT. Either way, we are almost 3-1... with our only loss coming at a place that we never win.
But what I saw on Sunday certainly does make it worth discussing, whether or not we're a Super Bowl team... or a pretender that gets past bad teams but can't win vs. good teams.
What, you don't want to dismantle the entire organization after one crap game?
The biggest problem is Kirk Cousins. Fix that. If he's not permanently damaged. The next biggest problem is pass protection. That is what it is but I expect it to improve as Bradbury matures and Stefanski figures out different ways to mitigate that weakness. Still, Cousins plays well and we're likely 4-0.
Zimmer talk is crazy. I have big problems with his game prep, but he's still among the best 6 to 10 coaches in the league IMO. Be stupid to jettison him unless you were to stumble upon an obvious "upgrade" hiding under a rock. And even then, be careful what you wish for.
Spielman talk is BATSHIT crazy. Jersey-level stupid. There's probably not a person in the org more responsible for giving this team the talent it has. Keep in mind, THAT'S why we're all frustrated. If this team sucked and we played like that, it would be one thing. But this is one of the more talented rosters in the NFL. We expect more precisely becaue we're talented--because we have Thielen and Diggs and Cook and Hunter and Griffen and Kendricks and Barr and Rhodes and Harry. This team hasn't been this stacked in its entire existence.
Chicago had BACK UPS in the lineup everywhere and still kicked our asses. That isn't Spielman's fault. Fix the PROBLEM. Don't fix what ain't broken.
No franchise QB and ignoring the OL for as long as it was is enough for me to say see ya senor rick. the offense is like a merry go round that keeps bringing the same shit back around because all thats been done has been reactionary. get in front of a problem and stay in front of it.
I’m not ready to jump ship yet. I think he’s clearly a top 10 coach over his
tenure in the league. His defense is consistently
in the top 5. I think he’s been
hamstrung by lack of OC, OL and QB talent, seemingly having almost as many of
each as we have seasons. I would like to
see what the offense looks like with a second year in the system. I’m not sure it’s fair to start judging so
hard after just 4 games in a new system and against the league’s top defense.
Cousins is what he is, but I’d like to see how he performs
if playcalling and the OLine improve as the year goes on.
If our OLine is not top 20 in both pass blocking and run
blocking in 2020 or if we don’t draft a QB, I would consider moving on. The chance of us getting a better coach than
Zimmer are pretty slim. Most likely we’ll
have another 2-3 bad coaches over 10-15 years before finding another guy that’s
Zimmer’s caliber. I’m just in no hurry when the odds of getting
worse are so much higher than the odds of getting better. I also think Zimmer over time has figured out
a lot of the teams problems and fixed them.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ pumpf said:
I'm prepared to wait a bit longer to see how this plays out. 2-2 (even though the 2 Ws came against cream-puff teams) is too early to make a decision. Besides, we SHOULD have beaten GB (on the road) if only KS hadn't called for a play-action pass... and Cousins hadn't then thrown an INT. If we had just run the ball, we (probably?) had won that game. Or, if Cousins hadn't thrown that INT. Either way, we are almost 3-1... with our only loss coming at a place that we never win.
But what I saw on Sunday certainly does make it worth discussing, whether or not we're a Super Bowl team... or a pretender that gets past bad teams but can't win vs. good teams.
What, you don't want to dismantle the entire organization after one crap game?
The biggest problem is Kirk Cousins. Fix that. If he's not permanently damaged. The next biggest problem is pass protection. That is what it is but I expect it to improve as Bradbury matures and Stefanski figures out different ways to mitigate that weakness. Still, Cousins plays well and we're likely 4-0.
Zimmer talk is crazy. I have big problems with his game prep, but he's still among the best 6 to 10 coaches in the league IMO. Be stupid to jettison him unless you were to stumble upon an obvious "upgrade" hiding under a rock. And even then, be careful what you wish for.
Spielman talk is BATSHIT crazy. Jersey-level stupid. There's probably not a person in the org more responsible for giving this team the talent it has. Keep in mind, THAT'S why we're all frustrated. If this team sucked and we played like that, it would be one thing. But this is one of the more talented rosters in the NFL. We expect more precisely becaue we're talented--because we have Thielen and Diggs and Cook and Hunter and Griffen and Kendricks and Barr and Rhodes and Harry. This team hasn't been this stacked in its entire existence.
Chicago had BACK UPS in the lineup everywhere and still kicked our asses. That isn't Spielman's fault. Fix the PROBLEM. Don't fix what ain't broken.
No franchise QB and ignoring the OL for as long as it was is enough for me to say see ya senor rick. the offense is like a merry go round that keeps bringing the same shit back around because all thats been done has been reactionary. get in front of a problem and stay in front of it.
LOL. Yeah, good luck with that.
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