Don't be surprised if the Vikings pass on Cody Ford

[Guest]

Gamble my ass. I'm sorry, what exactly did all these world beater Guards that Minnesota missed out on do last year?

Ragnow and Price didn't exactly light the world on fire. I, like Geoff, wasn't as impressed with Hernandez on tape vs. his numbers. And he doesn't fit a ZBS scheme. Williams? Meh. He didn't suck playing next to an Elite LT. Wynn got hurt. Miller could very well be a bust.

Value-wise Braden Smith and O'Neill produced more from where they were picked than the 1st Round guys minus McGlinchey and Nelson. And Elf's rookie season was better than most of them too.

Drafting Hughes didn't kill the Line. Eadton missing the whole season. Elf coming back weakened from injury. Sporano passing. His replacements not recognizing O'Neill over Hill earlier and whiffing on Gosset being legit. Remmers sucking ass at Guard. D-Flop mixing schemes. Injuries. Bad playcalling.

Every single one contributed to that hot mess. As did Rick signing Compton and thinking Remmers could play Guard.

I'm not sure drafting Nelson would have prevented that dumpster fire. Too many other factors at play.

[Guest]

@"FSUVike" said:
Gamble my ass. I'm sorry, what exactly did all these world beater Guards that Minnesota missed out on do last year?

Ragnow and Price didn't exactly light the world on fire. I, like Geoff, wasn't as impressed with Hernandez on tape vs. his numbers. And he doesn't fit a ZBS scheme. Williams? Meh. He didn't suck playing next to an Elite LT. Wynn got hurt. Miller could very well be a bust.

Value-wise Braden Smith and O'Neill produced more from where they were picked than the 1st Round guys minus McGlinchey and Nelson. And Elf's rookie season was better than most of them too.

Drafting Hughes didn't kill the Line. Eadton missing the whole season. Elf coming back weakened from injury. Sporano passing. His replacements not recognizing O'Neill over Hill earlier and whiffing on Gosset being legit. Remmers sucking ass at Guard. D-Flop mixing schemes. Injuries. Bad playcalling.

Every single one contributed to that hot mess. As did Rick signing Compton and thinking Remmers could play Guard.

I'm not sure drafting Nelson would have prevented that dumpster fire. Too many other factors at play.

By gambling, I mean we went with guys who across the board
were risky.  Easton and Elflein both had
season ending injuries late in the season. 
Elflein wasn’t even healthy for the start of the season, yet we were
thinking they would both be solid starters? 
Remmers had never played guard until 2017 in which he sucked, yet our
plan involved him playing guard from the get go.  Hill sucked at RT in 2017 and he was our
starter at RT.  O’Neill wasn’t even
supposed to start, because he was a project. 
4 of the 5 OL spots had serious question marks going into the season. 


All the issues you mentioned about the line were predictable
with a high enough probability.  We
ignored them.  We paid the price.


Was there any day 1 starter that you thought was a strong
candidate for upgrading their respective position on the line?  Was it a good plan?


But your argument that Smith and O’Neill had more value than
first rounders is illogical and only makes sense in hindsight.  We don't need high value players relative to their draft position, we need good OLinemen.  It’s like saying that if you need a franchise
QB, you can just get one in the 6th round, because Tom Brady was
drafted there, and as a bonus it's super high value because the draft pick was low.  The players drafted in
the first round have a better chance of being better by any definition, than
the later round players.  If we want a
functional OG out of the draft in 2019, our best chance is to take the best one
we can, and at 18 we’ll get the 3-5th best candidate and at 50, we’ll
get the 10th – 15th best candidate.  You’re point that half the players are going
to be mediocre or injured their rookie year is very valid.  It’s why we almost certainly have to draft 2
OGs just to be certain to get one, a point that is reinforced by Kline sucking
last year in the same system that we’re running now.

[Guest]

Kline was actually not in a ZBS last year, IIRC.

But I understand your point about gambling by relying on injured players coming back or coming back all the way healthy. Rick has banked on that on the O-Line time and time again.

I also get your point about risk and the later the round you pick a guy that lower the percentage chance of him working out becomes.

Except your trying to compare apples to apples, IMO. All Draft are not created equally. I wasn't impressed with Ragnow, Price, Williams, Hernande, etc. last year. In fact, I had many of them rated lower than Elf when he came out.

Really, Quenton Nelson and Mike McGlinchey were the only can't miss guys, and Mike only as a better than League Average RT. I liked Wynn a lot too, will be interesting to see if he develops into what I thought he could become.

This Draft doesn't have Nelson or McGlinchey. But it does have depth. Look at Samia from Oklahoma. Nasty player who'll probably go in the 3rd or 4th. Floor and ceiling much higher than Isadora, who was a 5th Rounder.

But good depth means squat if Rick drafts all Defense or whiffs on the right players.

That's where I truly believe we'll see the value of Kubiak and Dennison advising Stefanski, Zimmer and Spielman. They know exactly the type of guy they can mold and how to maximize strengths and scheme to hide weakneeses, which D-Flop didn't even try to do.

[Guest]

I know he can be tough to read, but in my opinion the an area Arif Hasan hits home runs in is his thoughts on the Vikings threshold for drafting positions. He has done a couple this year already, including the o-line. It has all the info we are interested in. I have a subscription, but unfortunately he writes this on the Athletic. I dont think I will have time tonite, but Ill try to post some of the o-line stats that he thinks the Vikings look at. One thing Geoff mentioned that I know Arif discusses is the flying 30.

[Guest]

@"SkolVikings44" said:
I know he can be tough to read, but in my opinion the an area Arif Hasan hits home runs in is his thoughts on the Vikings threshold for drafting positions. He has done a couple this year already, including the o-line. It has all the info we are interested in. I have a subscription, but unfortunately he writes this on the Athletic. I dont think I will have time tonite, but Ill try to post some of the o-line stats that he thinks the Vikings look at. One thing Geoff mentioned that I know Arif discusses is the flying 30.

Arif is a smart guy. Be curious to know his thoughts on this. Haven't yet subscribed to the Athletic, but there does appear to be some worthwhile content there.  

[Guest]

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"SkolVikings44" said:
I know he can be tough to read, but in my opinion the an area Arif Hasan hits home runs in is his thoughts on the Vikings threshold for drafting positions. He has done a couple this year already, including the o-line. It has all the info we are interested in. I have a subscription, but unfortunately he writes this on the Athletic. I dont think I will have time tonite, but Ill try to post some of the o-line stats that he thinks the Vikings look at. One thing Geoff mentioned that I know Arif discusses is the flying 30.

Arif is a smart guy. Be curious to know his thoughts on this. Haven't yet subscribed to the Athletic, but there does appear to be some worthwhile content there.  

I wasnt going to sign up at first, but I got in at a good price and I do really like some of the content. Fantasy sports content is surprisingly great. They have live Q &As. Im glad I pulled the trigger.

[Guest]

Whatever metrics the Vikings are using to evaluate OL are obviously working. Hopefully, there will be some changes in what they are looking for with the addition of Kubiak and what appears to be a commitment to running a ZBS for the foreseeable future.

[Guest]

Well, he was one of our top 30 visits...and at the Combine...So...

[Guest]

Darren Wolfson@DWolfsonKSTPMy fault on the hashtag typo in last tweet. To clarify: #Vikings have Oklahoma OL Cody Ford in today for a pre-draft visit. Boston College WR Jeff Smith is also here today. @gregauman first on Smith note.7:59 AM · Apr 2, 2019 · Twitter for iPhone

[Guest]

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