with the (finally)emergence of alexander and promise of Hill and Hughes we need to move on. 3rd rounder would do it for me. He’s banged up quite a bit for a corner in my view
If the coaches don't like Waynes much, then so be it. But if this is primarily to free cap space, I will be awfully curious to see who is not kept. Because I see some big cap savings in the form of a few players who are older and much less promising than Waynes:
Everson Griffen, 31 $10.5M
Kyle Rudolph, 29 $ 7.6M
Mike Remmers, 29 $ 5.6M
Andrew Sendejo, 31 $ 5.5M
I see a DEFINITE $11M in the form of Remmers and Sendejo, and if they don't, they are sentimentally, and foolishly, hanging on to some deadweight vets. That leaves the Vikings with about $17M of space for 2019. Probably not too hard to restructure and extend Rudolph and save a few more.
If they make those salary moves and still trade Waynes, that leaves me two questions:
1. Who are the Vikings planning to sign that they need $29M for 2019?
2. Why the hell would you keep Griffen instead of Waynes?
Oh well, probably just one reporter's BS. Last week Rhodes was"definitely" being shopped, too.
Quote: @"Jor-El" said:
If the coaches don't like Waynes much, then so be it. But if this is primarily to free cap space, I will be awfully curious to see who is not kept. Because I see some big cap savings in the form of a few players who are older and much less promising than Waynes:
Everson Griffen, 31 $10.5M
Kyle Rudolph, 29 $ 7.6M
Mike Remmers, 29 $ 5.6M
Andrew Sendejo, 31 $ 5.5M
I see a DEFINITE $11M in the form of Remmers and Sendejo, and if they don't, they are sentimentally, and foolishly, hanging on to some deadweight vets. That leaves the Vikings with about $17M of space for 2019. Probably not too hard to restructure and extend Rudolph and save a few more.
If they make those salary moves and still trade Waynes, that leaves me two questions:
1. Who are the Vikings planning to sign that they need $29M for 2019?
2. Why the hell would you keep Griffen instead of Waynes?
Oh well, probably just one reporter's BS. Last week Rhodes was"definitely" being shopped, too.
The Vikings cap problem runs deeper than this season. With the assumption that Remmers and Sendejo are cut (they should be) after the front office makes their ERFA & RFA tenders, allot space for draft picks, and sign a kicker to a league average deal they'll have about $7M to work with.
That $7M isn't going to get them far since it is exclusive of any of their mid-tier or higher internal UFA's, doesn't give them space to extend any 2020 UFA's, and does not include any external moves. So they will need to make space and that's where the moves get tougher.
I agree that Griffen and Rudolph need to be looked at. Griffen's situation is really weird since his contract isn't the easiest to renegotiate and his camp could dig their feet in. So you're really deciding between an outright release or keeping him at his current number. Rudolph is an extension candidate which would lower his 2019 cap number. That is probably the most likely scenario there.
Regardless if they restructure Everson and say they roughly cut his cap hit in half to $6M in 2019, that only gets you up to $13-14M in space to work with. That is where Waynes comes in. Move him and that $13-14M immediately is above $20M and you have plenty of room to work with.
To finish, I bet they're shopping Waynes but aren't going to simply give him away. If they don't get an offer they like and end up needing the space they'll have to either restructure Everson and cut Rudy or potentially cut them both.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@"Jor-El" said:
If the coaches don't like Waynes much, then so be it. But if this is primarily to free cap space, I will be awfully curious to see who is not kept. Because I see some big cap savings in the form of a few players who are older and much less promising than Waynes:
Everson Griffen, 31 $10.5M
Kyle Rudolph, 29 $ 7.6M
Mike Remmers, 29 $ 5.6M
Andrew Sendejo, 31 $ 5.5M
I see a DEFINITE $11M in the form of Remmers and Sendejo, and if they don't, they are sentimentally, and foolishly, hanging on to some deadweight vets. That leaves the Vikings with about $17M of space for 2019. Probably not too hard to restructure and extend Rudolph and save a few more.
If they make those salary moves and still trade Waynes, that leaves me two questions:
1. Who are the Vikings planning to sign that they need $29M for 2019?
2. Why the hell would you keep Griffen instead of Waynes?
Oh well, probably just one reporter's BS. Last week Rhodes was"definitely" being shopped, too.
The Vikings cap problem runs deeper than this season. With the assumption that Remmers and Sendejo are cut (they should be) after the front office makes their ERFA & RFA tenders, allot space for draft picks, and sign a kicker to a league average deal they'll have about $7M to work with.
That $7M isn't going to get them far since it is exclusive of any of their mid-tier or higher internal UFA's, doesn't give them space to extend any 2020 UFA's, and does not include any external moves. So they will need to make space and that's where the moves get tougher.
I agree that Griffen and Rudolph need to be looked at. Griffen's situation is really weird since his contract isn't the easiest to renegotiate and his camp could dig their feet in. So you're really deciding between an outright release or keeping him at his current number. Rudolph is an extension candidate which would lower his 2019 cap number. That is probably the most likely scenario there.
Regardless if they restructure Everson and say they roughly cut his cap hit in half to $6M in 2019, that only gets you up to $13-14M in space to work with. That is where Waynes comes in. Move him and that $13-14M immediately is above $20M and you have plenty of room to work with.
To finish, I bet they're shopping Waynes but aren't going to simply give him away. If they don't get an offer they like and end up needing the space they'll have to either restructure Everson and cut Rudy or potentially cut them both.
I would think that they could convert some of Hunter's salary to a signing bonus to free cap space.Let's say they go for a lot and convert 8 mil to a signing bonus.That would lower his cap hit to 7.1 mil from 13.5 mil saving 6.4 mil in cap space.It would raise his cap hit in each future year by 1.6 mil which is not too bad.
Plus, he is the one candidate that is likely to get another extension given his age and in fact, could be due for a bump up in pay in another couple of years if he continues to play like he has or gets even better.
KC got a 4 in 2018 and 2nd in 2019 for Marcus Peter's, who to me is not as good as Waynes and more of a head case and KC was in no position to bargain with Peters he wanted out. I'd say the Vikings shouldn't take anything less than a 2nd this year and a 4th next. They'd get a 3rd in comp picks if they let him leave in free agency in a year. Would you rather have someone like Julian Love who is projected to be a 2nd or Wayne's. To me that is an easy trade.
I'd put Rhodes as at least a 1st to trade, Alexander as a 2nd and Hughes' value is limited due to the injury.
Quote: @"JimmyinSD" said:
@"Purple Haze" said:
If you look at stats from around the league like % of passes completed when thrown at, yards per catch allowed, passer rating allowed, pass break ups and in coverage rating Waynes ranks 55th, 67th, 37th, 57th and 37th. So hes either middle of the pack or a little lower. In comparison Rhodes ranks 18th, 20th,16th,38th, and 24th. So I dont think its going to be to tough to find a CB in free agency that ranks either a little higher or the same as Trae for a cheaper price. The problem I see in replacing him in free agency is finding a CB that can grasp the Zimmer defense quick enough to get on the field. I hope they have an in house replacement in mind if they do trade him.
the problem with those stats is they dont take into account down and distance... IE: if he gives up a 12 yard gain on 3rd and 20... who cares? and who gets the blame when he is supposed to be play over coverage with a LB or DE taking away the underneath stuff that doesnt drop like they are supposed to? stats are often very hard to quantify IMO in a game with so many moving pieces and often those compiling the stats doesnt likely know whos supposed to do what on a play.
A CB's biggest value is on the plays he's not thrown at. What I most want to know is how many times did a QB have to go to a second read because Waynes's coverage was too good to throw at? I'd take a CB dead last in all "thrown at" categories if he leads the league in forced check downs.
I'm not big on the idea of trading Waynes for a couple reasons, #1 being we don't know when Hughes will be back after tearing his ACL mid season. I like Alexander but he is more of a slot corner while Waynes can matchup outside. #2 being we wont get back in trade compensation what we invested in him. Might get a 3rd round pick I'm thinking, not worth it to me despite the cap savings.
Personally I like Waynes. I think when it comes to corners the stats really don’t tell you much. So much of corner play is scheme specific, especially in Zimmer’s scheme. In my opinion, Waynes is one of the top tackling corners in the league. Not many find a way by him. Since he has been here he has done a good job overall not giving up the long ball.
With that said, he may be extremely expensive when his contract is up. So for me the question is, can I get a better pick than I’d receive losing him to FA. I wouldn’t consider anything less than a 2nd rounder. To me, good corners are difficult to find and even more rare when they can tackle well. He should bring a better than mid round pick. With injuries being what they are at the position, I’d keep him and deal with a compensatory pick or contract next year unless a great offer is made. 2nd round and up or equivalent player value at a different position.
Hughes looks like a great pick but has the health question mark now. Holton Hill looked very good yet comes with personal question marks. If he has it together though he could prove to be a great pick up. Alexander was probably the most improved player last year. He finally displayed what I considered his potential showed. A move to the inside took some time but it’s starting to look like their patience is paying off. Just don’t waste him for little to nothing is my main ask. Hopefully we get appropriate compensation in return.
Quote: @"supafreak84" said:
I'm not big on the idea of trading Waynes for a couple reasons, #1 being we don't know when Hughes will be back after tearing his ACL mid season. I like Alexander but he is more of a slot corner while Waynes can matchup outside. #2 being we wont get back in trade compensation what we invested in him. Might get a 3rd round pick I'm thinking, not worth it to me despite the cap savings.
Others can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Alexander was more of an outside CB and had to learn how to play the nickle/slot CB position. The Vikes wanted him for the nickle spot but it took him awhile to learn it. Also, we can't afford to pay Waynes big bucks with XR being paid like he is. That's alot for the CB position, given our depth there, and makes it very difficult to address our biggest weakness - OL. I would rather our CB position take a slight step back while improving our OL versus seeing our team fail again and again because of the ineptness of our OL.
Yes slot corner was new to Mac and isn’t known as an easy transition at the NFL level. It’s not uncommon for a slot corner to work against #1’s anymore. In my opinion he’s made great strides.
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