Quote: @"MaroonBells" said:
One might argue that you don't take a receiver like that in the 1st round. As a matter of fact, one did.
I'm still surprised the Vikings did. I really believe they were certain either Doctson or Fuller (or both) would be available and they panicked when both went right ahead of their pick. Not certain either of those guys would have been great either, but...if my guess is true that was a huge error.
I dont' think they expected Thielen to propel himself into the #1/#2 spots at WR. It was unexpected. They drafted Treadwell to go into those spots but Diggs and Thielen took control due to Treadwell's injuries his rookie year.
I think Treadwell does get open some. Heck that one play a few weeks ago where the defender grabbed and pushed him down - he was open if Keenum had throw the ball earlier. There was an open window there but the ball was very late and Treadwell had to slow down to try to catch it.
Quote: @"StickyBun" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
Treadwell still doesn't get open. He sure wasn't open on that play he made the amazing catch. He had 3 catches for 51 yards last week....and this was by far his best performance. I mean, the media is losing their minds over him it seems but he hasn't done a thing other than make 1 amazing catch.
Single coverage with inside leverage against a smaller CB...that's open as hell for Treadwell and really any NFL reciever, that's all the more he needs. it's on the QB at that point for not throwing him the ball. They need to learn to trust him that he wont leave their pass exposed and he has to make sure he either catches the ball or makes sure the defender doesnt.
The guy rarely gets open, period. No separation. We can all act like that isn't the case, but it is. Trust him by throwing into coverage? I don't think so. This isn't Dez Bryant. Nobody, outside of those wearing purple glasses, is going to tell me this kid isn't just a guy. At best.
Ok.
Dude, what other conclusion can I come to? Where is the production? We can hope.....we can like that unbelievable catch....we know he's working harder. All fine. 8 catches in 6 games. Anything else is homer vision or wishful thinking. Which is fine on a messageboard.
That's unfair. I don't hear anyone saying that Treadwell is headed for the pro bowl, or even the starting lineup, so maybe we can dispense with the homer-vision dismissals. The bottom line is that he was targeted 3 times and caught 3 balls. There is some sign of life in a kid who showed nothing in his rookie season...and that's a good thing...something to build on. Do I think he'll ever be a #1 receiver? No, I don't. I never have. I called him the most overrated player in the 2016 draft, that his ceiling was as a post-up possession receiver. He showed some things Sunday that might suggest he can eventually be that.
With all due respect, Sticky, It makes me wonder if you're the one with the unrealistic expectations. Because if you're one of the many who thought he was going to be a vertical threat in the mold of Michael Irvin or AJ Green, I would imagine the reality of what he REALLY is might be greatly disappointing. But if you're expectation is that he could round into another Anquan Boldin or Dwayne Bowe, then I would say Sunday was a positive step.
One might argue that you don't take a receiver like that in the 1st round. As a matter of fact, one did.
In two years, he has 9 catches thus far. He'll never be anything like a Boldin or Bowe, lol. C'mon now. With all due respect, your post is very homer. Boldin had 157 catches, 8 TDs in two years, one season in which he only played in 10 games because of injury. Bowe had 112 catches and 12 TDs in his first 2 years.
So who's unrealistic?
Both came in as starters. Treadwell was behind Diggs and Thielen. And he still is.
Exactly. So a WR drafted in the 1st round is a WR3? That's nuts. We have a WR drafted in the 5th round that's a #1. It was a wasted pick, straight up.
So who do you sit in favor of your fancy new 1st round receiver? Diggs or Thielen?
Quote: @"MaroonBells" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
Treadwell still doesn't get open. He sure wasn't open on that play he made the amazing catch. He had 3 catches for 51 yards last week....and this was by far his best performance. I mean, the media is losing their minds over him it seems but he hasn't done a thing other than make 1 amazing catch.
Single coverage with inside leverage against a smaller CB...that's open as hell for Treadwell and really any NFL reciever, that's all the more he needs. it's on the QB at that point for not throwing him the ball. They need to learn to trust him that he wont leave their pass exposed and he has to make sure he either catches the ball or makes sure the defender doesnt.
The guy rarely gets open, period. No separation. We can all act like that isn't the case, but it is. Trust him by throwing into coverage? I don't think so. This isn't Dez Bryant. Nobody, outside of those wearing purple glasses, is going to tell me this kid isn't just a guy. At best.
Ok.
Dude, what other conclusion can I come to? Where is the production? We can hope.....we can like that unbelievable catch....we know he's working harder. All fine. 8 catches in 6 games. Anything else is homer vision or wishful thinking. Which is fine on a messageboard.
That's unfair. I don't hear anyone saying that Treadwell is headed for the pro bowl, or even the starting lineup, so maybe we can dispense with the homer-vision dismissals. The bottom line is that he was targeted 3 times and caught 3 balls. There is some sign of life in a kid who showed nothing in his rookie season...and that's a good thing...something to build on. Do I think he'll ever be a #1 receiver? No, I don't. I never have. I called him the most overrated player in the 2016 draft, that his ceiling was as a post-up possession receiver. He showed some things Sunday that might suggest he can eventually be that.
With all due respect, Sticky, It makes me wonder if you're the one with the unrealistic expectations. Because if you're one of the many who thought he was going to be a vertical threat in the mold of Michael Irvin or AJ Green, I would imagine the reality of what he REALLY is might be greatly disappointing. But if you're expectation is that he could round into another Anquan Boldin or Dwayne Bowe, then I would say Sunday was a positive step.
One might argue that you don't take a receiver like that in the 1st round. As a matter of fact, one did.
In two years, he has 9 catches thus far. He'll never be anything like a Boldin or Bowe, lol. C'mon now. With all due respect, your post is very homer. Boldin had 157 catches, 8 TDs in two years, one season in which he only played in 10 games because of injury. Bowe had 112 catches and 12 TDs in his first 2 years.
So who's unrealistic?
Both came in as starters. Treadwell was behind Diggs and Thielen. And he still is.
Exactly. So a WR drafted in the 1st round is a WR3? That's nuts. We have a WR drafted in the 5th round that's a #1. It was a wasted pick, straight up.
So who do you sit in favor of your fancy new 1st round receiver? Diggs or Thielen?
You're not getting what I'm saying: he's no better than a WR3 on ANY team. He can't get open. If you select a WR in the first round, you expect a ton better production-wise and as a WR3. He hasn't shown shizzle yet. And there's nothing to say he will ever show anything by his play on the field.
I've probably bagged on Treadwell as much as anyone on this board. I hope that I'm wrong but I'm not counting on it. However, with Diggs and Floyd out now, he will have his chance to step up and show what he can do. No more excuses. 50 yards last week is a start but he still needs to show a lot more than that in order to keep his roster spot IMO.
Quote: @"Jor-El" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
One might argue that you don't take a receiver like that in the 1st round. As a matter of fact, one did.
I'm still surprised the Vikings did. I really believe they were certain either Doctson or Fuller (or both) would be available and they panicked when both went right ahead of their pick. Not certain either of those guys would have been great either, but...if my guess is true that was a huge error.
Yeah, there was a loud expletive released in the MB household that day. I think my cat is still hiding somewhere.
It's really too early to say about all of those 1st rounders. Coleman, Doctson, Fuller and Treadwell have all been relative disappointments to date. Fuller has been the most productive, but then he's dropped a ton of balls. Opportunity has been lacking for each, either because of injury or numbers. The real prizes came in the 2nd round, or in the case of Tyreek Hill, the 5th.
Quote: @"StickyBun" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
Treadwell still doesn't get open. He sure wasn't open on that play he made the amazing catch. He had 3 catches for 51 yards last week....and this was by far his best performance. I mean, the media is losing their minds over him it seems but he hasn't done a thing other than make 1 amazing catch.
Single coverage with inside leverage against a smaller CB...that's open as hell for Treadwell and really any NFL reciever, that's all the more he needs. it's on the QB at that point for not throwing him the ball. They need to learn to trust him that he wont leave their pass exposed and he has to make sure he either catches the ball or makes sure the defender doesnt.
The guy rarely gets open, period. No separation. We can all act like that isn't the case, but it is. Trust him by throwing into coverage? I don't think so. This isn't Dez Bryant. Nobody, outside of those wearing purple glasses, is going to tell me this kid isn't just a guy. At best.
Ok.
Dude, what other conclusion can I come to? Where is the production? We can hope.....we can like that unbelievable catch....we know he's working harder. All fine. 8 catches in 6 games. Anything else is homer vision or wishful thinking. Which is fine on a messageboard.
That's unfair. I don't hear anyone saying that Treadwell is headed for the pro bowl, or even the starting lineup, so maybe we can dispense with the homer-vision dismissals. The bottom line is that he was targeted 3 times and caught 3 balls. There is some sign of life in a kid who showed nothing in his rookie season...and that's a good thing...something to build on. Do I think he'll ever be a #1 receiver? No, I don't. I never have. I called him the most overrated player in the 2016 draft, that his ceiling was as a post-up possession receiver. He showed some things Sunday that might suggest he can eventually be that.
With all due respect, Sticky, It makes me wonder if you're the one with the unrealistic expectations. Because if you're one of the many who thought he was going to be a vertical threat in the mold of Michael Irvin or AJ Green, I would imagine the reality of what he REALLY is might be greatly disappointing. But if you're expectation is that he could round into another Anquan Boldin or Dwayne Bowe, then I would say Sunday was a positive step.
One might argue that you don't take a receiver like that in the 1st round. As a matter of fact, one did.
In two years, he has 9 catches thus far. He'll never be anything like a Boldin or Bowe, lol. C'mon now. With all due respect, your post is very homer. Boldin had 157 catches, 8 TDs in two years, one season in which he only played in 10 games because of injury. Bowe had 112 catches and 12 TDs in his first 2 years.
So who's unrealistic?
Both came in as starters. Treadwell was behind Diggs and Thielen. And he still is.
Exactly. So a WR drafted in the 1st round is a WR3? That's nuts. We have a WR drafted in the 5th round that's a #1. It was a wasted pick, straight up.
Yes, and an undrafted WR that's a #2. A player who didn't become a full time starter until his 3rd season. And remember, Diggs wasn't even active his rookie season until mid-year. The point is that you don't always know what you have until the receiver gets the opportunity to play, gain the trust of his QB, and string a few games together. I hated the Treadwell pick, but it's too early to call him a bust.
let me get this straight:
treadwell is 22
was coming off real injury
didnt even play much rookie year
now has two of the top 5 stats wrs in 2017 ahead of him
again he is only 22
finally played a game where looked like he had a fire
and now he is being criticized by doppey fans because he isnt anquan boldin? being definitively called a bust?
ill never understand.
Quote: @"MaroonBells" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
@" who's unrealistic?Exactly. So a WR drafted in the 1st round is a WR3? That's nuts. We have a WR drafted in the 5th round that's a #1. It was a wasted pick, straight up.
Yes, and an undrafted WR that's a #2. A player who didn't become a full time starter until his 3rd season. And remember, Diggs wasn't even active his rookie season until mid-year. The point is that you don't always know what you have until the receiver gets the opportunity to play, gain the trust of his QB, and string a few games together. I hated the Treadwell pick, but it's too early to call him a bust.
We have a UDFA and a 5th round pick as our Top 2 WR's and both are towards the top of the NFL. Our first round pick is coming on slowly, slower then most like for a first round pick but not unlike about 50/60% of first round picks. Everyone seems to think that every first round pick should start, and play really well, within there first year and it is a 50/50 proposition at every position and WR is one of the hardest to make an immediate impact.
I also don't get the he never gets open theme....In the NFL open is about 1 yard and Tread has been getting open plus we all knew he wasn't a speedster and used his body positioning, leaping/vertical, and long arms in college to make a ton of catches - mostly contested even in college. 1 yard is gained just by running a precise route and I think Tread is still learning the precise routes necessary for the NFL...CP never learned them...Tread seems to be learning. We will see in the next few weeks although I expect a heavy run game vs Ravens their run defense has been bottom of the NFL. So ball control, screens, runs and maybe around 20 pass attempts with tread targeted maybe 5 times max.
Lastly:
Only 2 WR's were taken in the first round last year.
Mike Williams at #7 to the Chargers - he has 1 catch - has had the new NFL wr injury bug.
John Ross at #9 to the Bengals - the speedster - he has 0 catches and 1 run for 12 yards.
I think Treadwell was the 4th WR taken in 2016 draft around 22nd if I recall. If I have a chance I will go back in the last few drafts and looks at WR's taken in the 20's and see how they are doing..we know Doctson for the Redskins has not done anything and he was the pick right before Treadwell (he is also the guy I wanted because he had more speed)
Perspective from around the League.
OK did a little research on the last few first round WR drafts:
2017 - only two WR's taken in the first round and they are referenced above. Both Top 10 picks and neither has done squat.
2016 - 4 WR's taken - at 15 Coleman, 21 Fuller, 22 Doctson and 23 Treadwell
2015 - 6 WR's taken - at 4 Cooper, 7 Kevin White, 14 Devante Parker, 20 Agholor, 26 Brashard Perriman, 29 Philip Dorsett
2014 - 5 WR's taken - 4 Sammy Watkins, 7 Mike Evans, 12 Odell Beckem, 20 Branden Cooks, 28 Calvin Benjamin
If we only look at WR's taken in the 20's like Treadwell:
2016 - Fuller has been dinged both season and has played 3 games this year with 8 catches.
Doctson has been injured the whole time and has played in 7 games in 2 years with a total of 6 catches
Treadwell has been targeted 16 times total in 2 years with 9 catches (5 first downs, yippee 
2015 - Agholor looks to be one of the most productive 20th picks of 2015 with 23 catches as a rookie, 36 last year and 20 already this year for the Eagles.
Perriman with the Ravens didn't play in one game as a rookie, had 33 catches last year and has a total of 4 catches on 17 targets through 6 games this year.
Dorsett with the Colts had 18 catches as a rookie, 33 last year and was traded to the Patriots where he has 4 catches on 8 targets on the year.
2014 - Cooks and Benjamin both productive from the get-go
Cooks 53 catches in 10 games as a rookie followed by 84 catches, 78 catches and was then traded to the Patriots where he has 24 catches in 6 games.
Benjamin played in all 16 games as a rookie and had 73 catches but was injured for the whole following year of 2015. 2016 he had 63 catches. This year he has 26 catches in 6 games but might have another knee injury and isn't practicing.
So to give some perspective, WR's taken in the first round and also in the 20's are about a 50/50 chance of making immediate impacts as rookies. Treadwell is coming on and it is his chance to step-up in year 2 with Diggs hurt again.
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