Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ HappyViking said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ HappyViking said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I still think Byron Murphy is in the conversation for us at 11. It would be nice however to have either EDGE or DT addressed before the draft. I'm just not sure if the front office envisions Van Ginkel as "the guy" opposite Greenard or just a rotation piece?
Where do we get the QB?
I'd envision if they went defense with the first pick, they'd move back up into the late 1st for Nix or Penix. I just don't think we mortgage our future moving up into the top 3 or having to jockey for whatever is ledtover with Denver and Vegas. Going defense at 11 and picking up one of those other two later on isnt a bad idea
I think it's safer to nab the QB at 11 then trade back into the 1st to grab the Edge or DT you want.
Maybe, but we still need an impact player along our defensive front and where does that come from at this point? I don't consider Greenard/Van Ginkel to be an upgrade over Hunter/Wonnum and at minimum you are hoping they can come close to matching that production. So where do we get better and upgrade a position of need? I guess I'm assuming a stud DT or Edge would still be available after the 11th pick, and somehow Kwesi can package a deal to get back into the first round and get their guy. It's the same theory for trading back up to nab a 1st round QB.
Would a QB they covet be more likely available in the mid to late rounds of the first or DL player? I'm not sure.I think they have to get the QB at 11, and then go D in round 2, if the trade up doesn't work. It's a rebuild year, and they need the picks anyway.
Maybe, but what if the quarterback they want isn't there at #11 or we get jumped in a trade up by either Denver or Vegas? You don't take a quarterback just to take a quarterback is my point, and the choices of quality defenders is going to be much more plentiful at 11 than quarterbacks I would guess. This team needs a sure thing in the first round.
This team needs a sure thing in the first round... who plays QB ha.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ HappyViking said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ HappyViking said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I still think Byron Murphy is in the conversation for us at 11. It would be nice however to have either EDGE or DT addressed before the draft. I'm just not sure if the front office envisions Van Ginkel as "the guy" opposite Greenard or just a rotation piece?
Where do we get the QB?
I'd envision if they went defense with the first pick, they'd move back up into the late 1st for Nix or Penix. I just don't think we mortgage our future moving up into the top 3 or having to jockey for whatever is ledtover with Denver and Vegas. Going defense at 11 and picking up one of those other two later on isnt a bad idea
I think it's safer to nab the QB at 11 then trade back into the 1st to grab the Edge or DT you want.
Maybe, but we still need an impact player along our defensive front and where does that come from at this point? I don't consider Greenard/Van Ginkel to be an upgrade over Hunter/Wonnum and at minimum you are hoping they can come close to matching that production. So where do we get better and upgrade a position of need? I guess I'm assuming a stud DT or Edge would still be available after the 11th pick, and somehow Kwesi can package a deal to get back into the first round and get their guy. It's the same theory for trading back up to nab a 1st round QB.
Would a QB they covet be more likely available in the mid to late rounds of the first or DL player? I'm not sure.I think they have to get the QB at 11, and then go D in round 2, if the trade up doesn't work. It's a rebuild year, and they need the picks anyway.
Maybe, but what if the quarterback they want isn't there at #11 or we get jumped in a trade up by either Denver or Vegas? You don't take a quarterback just to take a quarterback is my point, and the choices of quality defenders is going to be much more plentiful at 11 than quarterbacks I would guess. This team needs a sure thing in the first round.
thats the bed they made with the choices they have made to date, they wanted out of Kirk the Mercs antics ( which I agree with ) but they didnt have a decent bridge option in place, so now they will have to do what they have to do in order to not get left at the alter, its not a great situation, but its the one they face, might as well keep ATL on that list of potential QB takers as well, was listening to a couple different radio shows yesterday and both said while its unlikely, its not off the table for ATL to go QB this year since the pool is deeper than most, they wont likely be drafting this high in the next couple years, and essentially their deal with Kirk could be only 2 years with only 10 million dead cap depending on how they spread that 50 mill signing bonus. again not likely, but the notion that the choices are going to there by trading back in are just as remote as one of the top 3 being there at 11 IMO.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Can we add a couple IOL as well please?
Fingers crossed. I see Dalton Risner is taking to social media to plea for 'starting OG' money from Minnesota. I don't think the Vikings view him that way, I hope they hold firm and upgrade that spot.
Have to upgrade Bradbury, if we don't fix that position then it really won't matter who the QB or RB is.
i thought risner was a big upgrade over cleveland in pass protection and we were clearly a pass first team.
now with a new and maybe even a rookie wb we need to be a run first.
overall i wouod not mind resigning risner but no big deal
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ HappyViking said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ HappyViking said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I still think Byron Murphy is in the conversation for us at 11. It would be nice however to have either EDGE or DT addressed before the draft. I'm just not sure if the front office envisions Van Ginkel as "the guy" opposite Greenard or just a rotation piece?
Where do we get the QB?
I'd envision if they went defense with the first pick, they'd move back up into the late 1st for Nix or Penix. I just don't think we mortgage our future moving up into the top 3 or having to jockey for whatever is ledtover with Denver and Vegas. Going defense at 11 and picking up one of those other two later on isnt a bad idea
I think it's safer to nab the QB at 11 then trade back into the 1st to grab the Edge or DT you want.
Maybe, but we still need an impact player along our defensive front and where does that come from at this point? I don't consider Greenard/Van Ginkel to be an upgrade over Hunter/Wonnum and at minimum you are hoping they can come close to matching that production. So where do we get better and upgrade a position of need? I guess I'm assuming a stud DT or Edge would still be available after the 11th pick, and somehow Kwesi can package a deal to get back into the first round and get their guy. It's the same theory for trading back up to nab a 1st round QB.
Would a QB they covet be more likely available in the mid to late rounds of the first or DL player? I'm not sure.I think they have to get the QB at 11, and then go D in round 2, if the trade up doesn't work. It's a rebuild year, and they need the picks anyway.
Maybe, but what if the quarterback they want isn't there at #11 or we get jumped in a trade up by either Denver or Vegas? You don't take a quarterback just to take a quarterback is my point, and the choices of quality defenders is going to be much more plentiful at 11 than quarterbacks I would guess. This team needs a sure thing in the first round.
thats the bed they made with the choices they have made to date, they wanted out of Kirk the Mercs antics ( which I agree with ) but they didnt have a decent bridge option in place, so now they will have to do what they have to do in order to not get left at the alter, its not a great situation, but its the one they face, might as well keep ATL on that list of potential QB takers as well, was listening to a couple different radio shows yesterday and both said while its unlikely, its not off the table for ATL to go QB this year since the pool is deeper than most, they wont likely be drafting this high in the next couple years, and essentially their deal with Kirk could be only 2 years with only 10 million dead cap depending on how they spread that 50 mill signing bonus. again not likely, but the notion that the choices are going to there by trading back in are just as remote as one of the top 3 being there at 11 IMO.
I agree with you, but unfortunately the "trade up or bust" philosophy only doubles down on our misery if that quarterback busts by trading future draft assets for the opportunity to take a swing. It didn't work out in SF with Lance and it didn't work out woth the Panthers moving up for Bryce Young last year. Worst case scenario for the Vikings is forcing a trade up (because you think you have to), giving up multiple future first round picks, and that quarterback being the bust that many turn out to be. I said this in the other thread, but if you want to throw this franchise into another Hershall Walker type black hole....this is the way to do it, and I don't know about everybody else, but I'd rather stay put, grab BPA (if it's a QB, great) and move back up into the late first where the compensation is much more reasonable and grab Penix or Nix. Are those two really that much of a drop-off after anyone not named Caleb Williams at QB? I don't think so. And worst case if we don't like what we see after a year, we are likely drafting top 5 again next season, still have our first round pick, and won't need to "sell the farm" to grab one of the elite prospects in 2025.
I’d be shocked if either Nix or Penix were available after pick 20. There’s always the chance Penix has a medical push him down, but it woild be news to me. If we want either guy, we’ll have to take them at 11. Nix dropped one in the bucket on a corner route yesterday at his pro day - 60 air yards away in stride. He’s not dropping.
It’s possible that Drake Maye falls a bit. Not that far though. His pro day will be big for him. If his footwork is improved, I think he stays an upper selection. From all accounts he’s been working hard on it with Nix and their coach.
Each of the first 6 QB’s has the potential to be franchise QB’s in the NFL. It’s probably been 20+ years since I’ve seen a group this good from a prospect standpoint. Covid kind of bunched up two years of prospects. Now is the time to get one and all the teams know it.
Quote: @minny65 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Can we add a couple IOL as well please?
Fingers crossed. I see Dalton Risner is taking to social media to plea for 'starting OG' money from Minnesota. I don't think the Vikings view him that way, I hope they hold firm and upgrade that spot.
Have to upgrade Bradbury, if we don't fix that position then it really won't matter who the QB or RB is.
i thought risner was a big upgrade over cleveland in pass protection and we were clearly a pass first team.
now with a new and maybe even a rookie wb we need to be a run first.
overall i wouod not mind resigning risner but no big deal
I liked his pass pro, but his run game was not to write home about. if we can put a few million a year more into Risner money and get a more well rounded OG I think that would be a wiser move.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ HappyViking said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ HappyViking said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I still think Byron Murphy is in the conversation for us at 11. It would be nice however to have either EDGE or DT addressed before the draft. I'm just not sure if the front office envisions Van Ginkel as "the guy" opposite Greenard or just a rotation piece?
Where do we get the QB?
I'd envision if they went defense with the first pick, they'd move back up into the late 1st for Nix or Penix. I just don't think we mortgage our future moving up into the top 3 or having to jockey for whatever is ledtover with Denver and Vegas. Going defense at 11 and picking up one of those other two later on isnt a bad idea
I think it's safer to nab the QB at 11 then trade back into the 1st to grab the Edge or DT you want.
Maybe, but we still need an impact player along our defensive front and where does that come from at this point? I don't consider Greenard/Van Ginkel to be an upgrade over Hunter/Wonnum and at minimum you are hoping they can come close to matching that production. So where do we get better and upgrade a position of need? I guess I'm assuming a stud DT or Edge would still be available after the 11th pick, and somehow Kwesi can package a deal to get back into the first round and get their guy. It's the same theory for trading back up to nab a 1st round QB.
Would a QB they covet be more likely available in the mid to late rounds of the first or DL player? I'm not sure.I think they have to get the QB at 11, and then go D in round 2, if the trade up doesn't work. It's a rebuild year, and they need the picks anyway.
Maybe, but what if the quarterback they want isn't there at #11 or we get jumped in a trade up by either Denver or Vegas? You don't take a quarterback just to take a quarterback is my point, and the choices of quality defenders is going to be much more plentiful at 11 than quarterbacks I would guess. This team needs a sure thing in the first round.
thats the bed they made with the choices they have made to date, they wanted out of Kirk the Mercs antics ( which I agree with ) but they didnt have a decent bridge option in place, so now they will have to do what they have to do in order to not get left at the alter, its not a great situation, but its the one they face, might as well keep ATL on that list of potential QB takers as well, was listening to a couple different radio shows yesterday and both said while its unlikely, its not off the table for ATL to go QB this year since the pool is deeper than most, they wont likely be drafting this high in the next couple years, and essentially their deal with Kirk could be only 2 years with only 10 million dead cap depending on how they spread that 50 mill signing bonus. again not likely, but the notion that the choices are going to there by trading back in are just as remote as one of the top 3 being there at 11 IMO.
I agree with you, but unfortunately the "trade up or bust" philosophy only doubles down on our misery if that quarterback busts by trading future draft assets for the opportunity to take a swing. It didn't work out in SF with Lance and it didn't work out woth the Panthers moving up for Bryce Young last year. Worst case scenario for the Vikings is forcing a trade up (because you think you have to), giving up multiple future first round picks, and that quarterback being the bust that many turn out to be. I said this in the other thread, but if you want to throw this franchise into another Hershall Walker type black hole....this is the way to do it, and I don't know about everybody else, but I'd rather stay put, grab BPA (if it's a QB, great) and move back up into the late first where the compensation is much more reasonable and grab Penix or Nix. Are those two really that much of a drop-off after anyone not named Caleb Williams at QB? I don't think so. And worst case if we don't like what we see after a year, we are likely drafting top 5 again next season, still have our first round pick, and won't need to "sell the farm" to grab one of the elite prospects in 2025.
I dont want to trade up for the top 3, maybe if we can get into the top 5-7 range by only using a couple of this years picks, otherwise hang tight at 11 and take the best of whats left, should still be 2 good prospects at 11 unless there is an unprecedented run on the position. I just dont think you try and push the QB pick down the board, just inviting disaster for what? maybe a 3rd or 4th round pick that will be in the mid to later parts of those rounds? not worth missing out on what would in a normal year be a top 3 QB prospect.
Quote: @Havoc1649 said:
I’d be shocked if either Nix or Penix were available after pick 20. There’s always the chance Penix has a medical push him down, but it woild be news to me. If we want either guy, we’ll have to take them at 11. Nix dropped one in the bucket on a corner route yesterday at his pro day - 60 air yards away in stride. He’s not dropping.
It’s possible that Drake Maye falls a bit. Not that far though. His pro day will be big for him. If his footwork is improved, I think he stays an upper selection. From all accounts he’s been working hard on it with Nix and their coach.
Each of the first 6 QB’s has the potential to be franchise QB’s in the NFL. It’s probably been 20+ years since I’ve seen a group this good from a prospect standpoint. Covid kind of bunched up two years of prospects. Now is the time to get one and all the teams know it.
Nix might be a guy that surprises as his intangibles are off the chart.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ HappyViking said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ HappyViking said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I still think Byron Murphy is in the conversation for us at 11. It would be nice however to have either EDGE or DT addressed before the draft. I'm just not sure if the front office envisions Van Ginkel as "the guy" opposite Greenard or just a rotation piece?
Where do we get the QB?
I'd envision if they went defense with the first pick, they'd move back up into the late 1st for Nix or Penix. I just don't think we mortgage our future moving up into the top 3 or having to jockey for whatever is ledtover with Denver and Vegas. Going defense at 11 and picking up one of those other two later on isnt a bad idea
I think it's safer to nab the QB at 11 then trade back into the 1st to grab the Edge or DT you want.
Maybe, but we still need an impact player along our defensive front and where does that come from at this point? I don't consider Greenard/Van Ginkel to be an upgrade over Hunter/Wonnum and at minimum you are hoping they can come close to matching that production. So where do we get better and upgrade a position of need? I guess I'm assuming a stud DT or Edge would still be available after the 11th pick, and somehow Kwesi can package a deal to get back into the first round and get their guy. It's the same theory for trading back up to nab a 1st round QB.
Would a QB they covet be more likely available in the mid to late rounds of the first or DL player? I'm not sure.I think they have to get the QB at 11, and then go D in round 2, if the trade up doesn't work. It's a rebuild year, and they need the picks anyway.
Maybe, but what if the quarterback they want isn't there at #11 or we get jumped in a trade up by either Denver or Vegas? You don't take a quarterback just to take a quarterback is my point, and the choices of quality defenders is going to be much more plentiful at 11 than quarterbacks I would guess. This team needs a sure thing in the first round.
thats the bed they made with the choices they have made to date, they wanted out of Kirk the Mercs antics ( which I agree with ) but they didnt have a decent bridge option in place, so now they will have to do what they have to do in order to not get left at the alter, its not a great situation, but its the one they face, might as well keep ATL on that list of potential QB takers as well, was listening to a couple different radio shows yesterday and both said while its unlikely, its not off the table for ATL to go QB this year since the pool is deeper than most, they wont likely be drafting this high in the next couple years, and essentially their deal with Kirk could be only 2 years with only 10 million dead cap depending on how they spread that 50 mill signing bonus. again not likely, but the notion that the choices are going to there by trading back in are just as remote as one of the top 3 being there at 11 IMO.
I agree with you, but unfortunately the "trade up or bust" philosophy only doubles down on our misery if that quarterback busts by trading future draft assets for the opportunity to take a swing. It didn't work out in SF with Lance and it didn't work out woth the Panthers moving up for Bryce Young last year. Worst case scenario for the Vikings is forcing a trade up (because you think you have to), giving up multiple future first round picks, and that quarterback being the bust that many turn out to be. I said this in the other thread, but if you want to throw this franchise into another Hershall Walker type black hole....this is the way to do it, and I don't know about everybody else, but I'd rather stay put, grab BPA (if it's a QB, great) and move back up into the late first where the compensation is much more reasonable and grab Penix or Nix. Are those two really that much of a drop-off after anyone not named Caleb Williams at QB? I don't think so. And worst case if we don't like what we see after a year, we are likely drafting top 5 again next season, still have our first round pick, and won't need to "sell the farm" to grab one of the elite prospects in 2025.
I dont want to trade up for the top 3, maybe if we can get into the top 5-7 range by only using a couple of this years picks, otherwise hang tight at 11 and take the best of whats left, should still be 2 good prospects at 11 unless there is an unprecedented run on the position. I just dont think you try and push the QB pick down the board, just inviting disaster for what? maybe a 3rd or 4th round pick that will be in the mid to later parts of those rounds? not worth missing out on what would in a normal year be a top 3 QB prospect.
Any move up from 11 into the top 3 to 5 picks is going to be massive based on past precedence. I'm just saying the Vikings don't need to be desperate and sell the farm because they think they "have to" to grab a quarterback. Do we need one? Absolutely. Would I mortgage three years of 1st round picks + for the opportunity to move up and take that swing? Absolutely not. The risk is too great. Roll with Darnold and whomever else they can get, continue building the defense, and we likely go into the 2025 offseason with a top 5 pick and over 100 million in cap room to spend in free agency.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ Havoc1649 said:
I’d be shocked if either Nix or Penix were available after pick 20. There’s always the chance Penix has a medical push him down, but it woild be news to me. If we want either guy, we’ll have to take them at 11. Nix dropped one in the bucket on a corner route yesterday at his pro day - 60 air yards away in stride. He’s not dropping.
It’s possible that Drake Maye falls a bit. Not that far though. His pro day will be big for him. If his footwork is improved, I think he stays an upper selection. From all accounts he’s been working hard on it with Nix and their coach.
Each of the first 6 QB’s has the potential to be franchise QB’s in the NFL. It’s probably been 20+ years since I’ve seen a group this good from a prospect standpoint. Covid kind of bunched up two years of prospects. Now is the time to get one and all the teams know it.
Nix might be a guy that surprises as his intangibles are off the chart.
honestly, as crazy as it sounds, I think of the 6, if we ended up with Williams or Maye I would likely be the most disappointed. I still am not seeing the hype on either compared to Nix, Penix, and JJM. I am sure history will prove me wrong, but I wouldnt be talking either of those 2 if I was picking in the top 3.
although if you are a GM, picking in those spots, and you dont follow conventional or popular wisdom... you better be right, or have compromising photos of the owner.
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