Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
I imagine the 1-yr contract point is an inference from the breakdown in their prior conversation last off-season where the Vikings wouldn't offer or guarantee any money past the 2024 season. The Vikings had offered to tack 2 years on Kirk's existing deal with 2023 (last season) and 2024 being guaranteed. Then the Vikings would have flexibility in 2025. Since it was only a single new year in guaranteed money Kirk didn't really engage in that.
The Kirk extension talks are very interesting since there are two colliding forces. Kirk will need more than a single year on a new deal and guarantees (likely full) into 2025. The Vikings on the other hand have very intentionally earmarked 2025 as the start of their new competitive window. They have complete flexibility. Hockenson, Addison, and Cine are the only 3 players on the entire roster with guaranteed money in 2025 which is kind of crazy.
Kirk played well, but is that enough to get the Viking to move off what they've setup in 2025?
What does "the start of their new competitive window" mean?
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ FLVike said:
Moving up in the draft would cost a fortune? Really?The Lions moved up 20 spots for two pancakes and a waffle. We should be able to move up 6 spots for just two pancakes.
If the Vikings let Kirk walk, moving up WILL cost a fortune because every GM in front of them in the draft will know the Vikings have a proverbial loaded shotgun to their head to get a QB.
Good fucking luck selling ANYONE on the idea of watching “Gardner Minshew” for two years while we wait to see if one of the “Christian Ponders” we reach for at #11 or draft in the second round pans out.
At least I’ll get to happily point out what an absolutely moronic plan it was if this ends up being the option they take. I was right when i said we’d be lucky to win 8 games once Kirk went down (and was ripped during Dobbs-mania) and I’m just as right about this.
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again:
if Kirk walks, its either Maye, Williams, Daniels or the nuclear option
So you are going on record as saying that any QB other than the 3 you listed will be busts?
And way to stick you neck out on the over under, the teams star receiver was out, the starting QB goes down for the year, our IOL was shit as well as our running game. The D wasn't doing much and the team had started the year 1-4, so they had proven they knew how to lose.
They clawed back to 4/4 when Kirk took em into Lamblow and beat GB. We dont win their often and the team was on a roll.
That gets overshadowed by what happened the rest of the year.
But my main point is that if they dont get a deal done before early March FA period, they can go 2nd tier starter and get a 2nd tier qb to draft. But that kid will have to start in most likely 2 years if its JJMc.
That aint going to make the locker room happy, jjefferson happy or the fans.
I dont envy them.
Need to get off the Jefferson angle, hes come out and said he's going to ball out regardless of who is throwing him the ball, and ultimately for him its gonna be about the money on a new deal, he hasn't banked a quarter billion like Merc Cousins so you can rest assured he won't be playing for less because he likes his QB.
But you are right, its not an easy decision, important ones rarely are, but Cousins is not the future of this franchise, he hasn't delivered much since he got here, and the overall talent level of the team has declined, his contract being an issue or not, its time to move forward IMO.
Here is my thing with Cousins, nobody disputes a healthy Cousins gives us the best chance to win next season. We can all agree on that. What's in dispute is what's "fair" on an extension and protects the franchise from having to commit any more money out to him long term. That's why I say, a one year deal with a team option for a second makes the most sense under the circumstances. If Atlanta or some other team wants to give him a fully guaranteed two or three year deal...let them take that risk and we move in another direction. If they are building this thing for a new "competitive window" starting in 2025, what sense does it make to continue kicking the can down the road on yet another Cousins extension?
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ FLVike said:
Moving up in the draft would cost a fortune? Really?The Lions moved up 20 spots for two pancakes and a waffle. We should be able to move up 6 spots for just two pancakes.
If the Vikings let Kirk walk, moving up WILL cost a fortune because every GM in front of them in the draft will know the Vikings have a proverbial loaded shotgun to their head to get a QB.
Good fucking luck selling ANYONE on the idea of watching “Gardner Minshew” for two years while we wait to see if one of the “Christian Ponders” we reach for at #11 or draft in the second round pans out.
At least I’ll get to happily point out what an absolutely moronic plan it was if this ends up being the option they take. I was right when i said we’d be lucky to win 8 games once Kirk went down (and was ripped during Dobbs-mania) and I’m just as right about this.
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again:
if Kirk walks, its either Maye, Williams, Daniels or the nuclear option
So you are going on record as saying that any QB other than the 3 you listed will be busts?
And way to stick you neck out on the over under, the teams star receiver was out, the starting QB goes down for the year, our IOL was shit as well as our running game. The D wasn't doing much and the team had started the year 1-4, so they had proven they knew how to lose.
I'm not going on record saying that every QB I didn't list will bust, what I'm saying is it will take 2-3 years of development to figure out whether they are busts or not. The only QBs I listed are the ones that can/will start from day 1. Meaning if you don't extend Cousins or go for one of the top 3 QBs, you might as well blow everything up because we'll be on the never-ending merry-go-round of shitty QBs for who knows how long.
And to your second point....I was absolutely KILLED on this board for suggesting that Dobbs wasn't great right away and 8 wins was a likely probability. I WAS wrong though...we only got 7 wins.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
Here is my thing with Cousins, nobody disputes a healthy Cousins gives us the best chance to win next season. We can all agree on that. What's in dispute is what's "fair" on an extension and protects the franchise from having to commit any more money out to him long term. That's why I say, a one year deal with a team option for a second makes the most sense under the circumstances. If Atlanta or some other team wants to give him a fully guaranteed two or three year deal...let them take that risk and we move in another direction. If they are building this thing for a new "competitive window" starting in 2025, what sense does it make to continue kicking the can down the road on yet another Cousins extension?
Well if they're going to open a new competitive window in 2025, they're gonna need a good QB. You literally can't compete in the NFL without one.
Quote: @CFIAvike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ FLVike said:
Moving up in the draft would cost a fortune? Really?The Lions moved up 20 spots for two pancakes and a waffle. We should be able to move up 6 spots for just two pancakes.
If the Vikings let Kirk walk, moving up WILL cost a fortune because every GM in front of them in the draft will know the Vikings have a proverbial loaded shotgun to their head to get a QB.
Good fucking luck selling ANYONE on the idea of watching “Gardner Minshew” for two years while we wait to see if one of the “Christian Ponders” we reach for at #11 or draft in the second round pans out.
At least I’ll get to happily point out what an absolutely moronic plan it was if this ends up being the option they take. I was right when i said we’d be lucky to win 8 games once Kirk went down (and was ripped during Dobbs-mania) and I’m just as right about this.
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again:
if Kirk walks, its either Maye, Williams, Daniels or the nuclear option
So you are going on record as saying that any QB other than the 3 you listed will be busts?
And way to stick you neck out on the over under, the teams star receiver was out, the starting QB goes down for the year, our IOL was shit as well as our running game. The D wasn't doing much and the team had started the year 1-4, so they had proven they knew how to lose.
I'm not going on record saying that every QB I didn't list will bust, what I'm saying is it will take 2-3 years of development to figure out whether they are busts or not. The only QBs I listed are the ones that can/will start from day 1. Meaning if you don't extend Cousins or go for one of the top 3 QBs, you might as well blow everything up because we'll be on the never-ending merry-go-round of shitty QBs for who knows how long.
And to your second point....I was absolutely KILLED on this board for suggesting that Dobbs wasn't great right away and 8 wins was a likely probability. I WAS wrong though...we only got 7 wins.
Just because you need 2 or 3 years to evaluate a QB doesn't preclude you from continuing to try and improve the position. This dumb ass notion that you can only draft a new QB once the previous has failed is stupid as shit, and any GM that follows that mentality should be unemployed.
And you said Ponder as in a bust, not about taking years to evaluate. If you don't see it by the end of year one if you arent sold, back to the well. Just be up front about it and that way nobody freaks out. Don't oversell any pick and there won't be problems.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ FLVike said:
Moving up in the draft would cost a fortune? Really?The Lions moved up 20 spots for two pancakes and a waffle. We should be able to move up 6 spots for just two pancakes.
If the Vikings let Kirk walk, moving up WILL cost a fortune because every GM in front of them in the draft will know the Vikings have a proverbial loaded shotgun to their head to get a QB.
Good fucking luck selling ANYONE on the idea of watching “Gardner Minshew” for two years while we wait to see if one of the “Christian Ponders” we reach for at #11 or draft in the second round pans out.
At least I’ll get to happily point out what an absolutely moronic plan it was if this ends up being the option they take. I was right when i said we’d be lucky to win 8 games once Kirk went down (and was ripped during Dobbs-mania) and I’m just as right about this.
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again:
if Kirk walks, its either Maye, Williams, Daniels or the nuclear option
So you are going on record as saying that any QB other than the 3 you listed will be busts?
And way to stick you neck out on the over under, the teams star receiver was out, the starting QB goes down for the year, our IOL was shit as well as our running game. The D wasn't doing much and the team had started the year 1-4, so they had proven they knew how to lose.
I'm not going on record saying that every QB I didn't list will bust, what I'm saying is it will take 2-3 years of development to figure out whether they are busts or not. The only QBs I listed are the ones that can/will start from day 1. Meaning if you don't extend Cousins or go for one of the top 3 QBs, you might as well blow everything up because we'll be on the never-ending merry-go-round of shitty QBs for who knows how long.
And to your second point....I was absolutely KILLED on this board for suggesting that Dobbs wasn't great right away and 8 wins was a likely probability. I WAS wrong though...we only got 7 wins.
Just because you need 2 or 3 years to evaluate a QB doesn't preclude you from continuing to try and improve the position. This dumb ass notion that you can only draft a new QB once the previous has failed is stupid as shit, and any GM that follows that mentality should be unemployed.
And you said Ponder as in a bust, not about taking years to evaluate. If you don't see it by the end of year one if you arent sold, back to the well. Just be up front about it and that way nobody freaks out. Don't oversell any pick and there won't be problems.
When did Kirk become this great QB all of a sudden? I must have missed that. 1 playoff win in 6 years. Time to get off the merry go round. If they sign him it will be for three years guaranteed.
Quote: @Skodin said:
Mercenary Kirk continues, this should be no surprise to anyone. He's made a quarter BILLION from this franchise and has turned out one playoff win.
Here's a good idea Kirk, go 3 years for $60M, guaranteed and allow the team to have $20M per year to actually build out a team that can support your aging ass to win it all. IF that is what matters to you.
Paying him more than $30M is lunacy and shows this franchise isn't about building a winner, it's about selling tickets
Let him play in Atlanta and not win a playoff game for the rest of his career
Yeah, "mercenary". His first contract with the Vikings was the team's offer, he's let them move his money around for cap reasons for years, and was the 12th or so paid QB...not top 3, top 5, or even top 10.
Golly, what a brute...setting those records with JJ, leading the league in TD passes when he got hurt...I'm sure he's "just productive for stats", as the haters try to say.... (cough)
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
I imagine the 1-yr contract point is an inference from the breakdown in their prior conversation last off-season where the Vikings wouldn't offer or guarantee any money past the 2024 season. The Vikings had offered to tack 2 years on Kirk's existing deal with 2023 (last season) and 2024 being guaranteed. Then the Vikings would have flexibility in 2025. Since it was only a single new year in guaranteed money Kirk didn't really engage in that.
The Kirk extension talks are very interesting since there are two colliding forces. Kirk will need more than a single year on a new deal and guarantees (likely full) into 2025. The Vikings on the other hand have very intentionally earmarked 2025 as the start of their new competitive window. They have complete flexibility. Hockenson, Addison, and Cine are the only 3 players on the entire roster with guaranteed money in 2025 which is kind of crazy.
Kirk played well, but is that enough to get the Viking to move off what they've setup in 2025?
What does "the start of their new competitive window" mean?
Competitive window starts when the competitive rebuild doesn't work.
I yearn for the six seasons of 50-39-1 and 0-2 in playoff appearances so lets continue to do what we have always been doing 
All because a decade ago a whole different regime over drafted Ponder - yikes scary. Too scary to ever take a swing again.
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