Oh hey. It's this thread again. :devil:
Quote: @njvike said:
@ Bullazin said:
@ njvike said:-
....Between April of 2011 and September of 2016, Schpielman has used THREE FIRST ROUND draft picks (and a grand total of 5 draft picks) on Quarterbacks, and on 9/24/2017, the starter/backup combo for the Vikings is Keenum/Sloter?? Meanwhile, regarding the three 1st rounders : 1 is out of the NFL, 1 is still rehabbing from a potentially career ending injury (non-contact) and the last is seeking a 2nd opinion from a specialist regarding a mysterious non-contact injury to his twice-surgically-repaired knee?
Do I have my facts straight, or am I just being a "hater"?
i dont see a problem stipulating, but i really dont see a point to it. Ponder was a bust. it happens once or more to nearly every GM.
Spielman is not a God or anything but he appears to be better than average, possibly one of the better GM's. can you bring any convincing, objective data to the contrary?
Sure....his actual RECORD as VP/GM
Miami 2002-2004 (SR VP of Player Personnel/GM)
Regular season : 23-25
Playoffs : NONE
Minnesota 2006-Current, 11 full seasons (VP of Player Personnel/GM)
Regular season : 86-89-1
Playoffs : 1*-4 (asterisk on lone Favre-led playoff win. Favre was brought/recruited to Vikings by Childress and the Wilf's (checkbook)
That's a combined regular season record (over 14 seasons) of 109-114-1, not to mention the abysmal 1*-4 playoff record, for HIS TEAMS.
If you consider those RESULTS better than average and possibly being one of the better GM's in the league, then you and I have DRASTICALLY different definitions of the terms "better than average" and "one of the better GM's in the league"
i found 42-39 since he became GM. you really want to fault speilly for red mccombs, chiliwacker, all day kid beating suspensions and injury, and les frazier? by all accounts he drafts well. i wanted him to draft Aaron Donald and Carr, but there were legitimate reasons he drafted the other options.
you could make an argument that he could be upgraded, but who is your target? and is the target feasible? i dont see speilly at the top of our issues list
Quote: @Bullazin said:
@ njvike said:
@ Bullazin said:
@ njvike said:-
....Between April of 2011 and September of 2016, Schpielman has used THREE FIRST ROUND draft picks (and a grand total of 5 draft picks) on Quarterbacks, and on 9/24/2017, the starter/backup combo for the Vikings is Keenum/Sloter?? Meanwhile, regarding the three 1st rounders : 1 is out of the NFL, 1 is still rehabbing from a potentially career ending injury (non-contact) and the last is seeking a 2nd opinion from a specialist regarding a mysterious non-contact injury to his twice-surgically-repaired knee?
Do I have my facts straight, or am I just being a "hater"?
i dont see a problem stipulating, but i really dont see a point to it. Ponder was a bust. it happens once or more to nearly every GM.
Spielman is not a God or anything but he appears to be better than average, possibly one of the better GM's. can you bring any convincing, objective data to the contrary?
Sure....his actual RECORD as VP/GM
Miami 2002-2004 (SR VP of Player Personnel/GM)
Regular season : 23-25
Playoffs : NONE
Minnesota 2006-Current, 11 full seasons (VP of Player Personnel/GM)
Regular season : 86-89-1
Playoffs : 1*-4 (asterisk on lone Favre-led playoff win. Favre was brought/recruited to Vikings by Childress and the Wilf's (checkbook)
That's a combined regular season record (over 14 seasons) of 109-114-1, not to mention the abysmal 1*-4 playoff record, for HIS TEAMS.
If you consider those RESULTS better than average and possibly being one of the better GM's in the league, then you and I have DRASTICALLY different definitions of the terms "better than average" and "one of the better GM's in the league"
i found 42-39 since he became GM. you really want to fault speilly for red mccombs, chiliwacker, all day kid beating suspensions and injury, and les frazier? by all accounts he drafts well. i wanted him to draft Aaron Donald and Carr, but there were legitimate reasons he drafted the other options.
you could make an argument that he could be upgraded, but who is your target? and is the target feasible? i dont see speilly at the top of our issues list
Ricky was NEVER here under McCombs. And since he stepped foot on Winter Park, he was VP of Player Personnel and in TOTAL charge of both college and pro scouting departments. This false assumption that he had NOTHING to do ANY decisions, despite his title and being 1/3 of the TOA, is complete horse hockey. But even using your "selective" stats, you truly think 42-39 and 0-2 in playoffs qualifies him as one of the best in the league?! SMH, my comment of our different definitions stands.
And my target? Since I'm not wirking in the league and have no knowledge of EVERY personnel executive for all 32 teams, I can't give you a single name at this time. I CAN, however, tell you what I would advise Zygi and Mark to do.....put together a consulting group comprised of former NFL execs ( Parcells, Polian, Casserly, etc.) and have them use their vast contacts in the NFL (with a combined 100+ years experience with numerous teams, I'm assuming they'd have good contacts at most, if not all teams) and come up with a list of "up-and-comers".
Then, go through a vetting process and present the Wilf's with @ 5 candidates to interview. Whomever they choose, I have a hard time imagining it could be WORSE than 1 playoff win in 11 seasons.
Time for a change, even if it's change for change's sake. Whatever THIS is, it's OBVIOUSLY not working.
Quote: @njvike said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ njvike said:
....Between April of 2011 and September of 2016, Schpielman has used THREE FIRST ROUND draft picks (and a grand total of 5 draft picks) on Quarterbacks, and on 9/24/2017, the starter/backup combo for the Vikings is Keenum/Sloter?? Meanwhile, regarding the three 1st rounders : 1 is out of the NFL, 1 is still rehabbing from a potentially career ending injury (non-contact) and the last is seeking a 2nd opinion from a specialist regarding a mysterious non-contact injury to his twice-surgically-repaired knee?
Do I have my facts straight, or am I just being a "hater"?
Those are the facts. What's your point, that he didn't make the right choice at QB, as evidenced by 1 bust and a freak non-contact injury? That would also be fact. Apparently, the only good GM's are clairvoyant? As mentioned earlier, my problem with Rick is his negligence in addressing the offensive line for so long, and trying to build it on the cheap. I also, didn't like jumping back into the 1st round for some of the picks we got. (Waynes, Treadwell)...
As for what we have with Sam, given what happened with Teddy, what would you have done j erseyboy? Who else was available that gave us a chance to win that wouldn't have cost us more than a 1st round pick? I'd say he did the absolutely best thing he could have done given the dire situation we were in.
My point was illustrating to Viking fans just how much draft equity Saint Richard has, thus far, pissed away on the QB position in just a little over 5 years. I also posted above Spielman's ACTUAL W-L record as VP and/or GM. Nothing irritates a Rickophant more than seeing his actual accomplishments (or, more accurately, his stunning LACK of accomplishments) in print, just the FACTS without all the usual EXCUSES. But, hey, keep on focusing on individual draft picks, trades, signings, etc. As Zimmer himself says : "Don't tell me about he labor, show me the baby".
Regarding "jerseyboy"? I was actually born and raised in the Bronx, and lived all over NYC. I opted for njvike when joining PT back in 1999 or 2000, when I happened to be living in NJ at the time. For the past 13 years, I've been in the Charlotte, NC area. Maybe I should update my nom du plume so you can childishly ridicule me personally with the proper state?
Lastly, the ever popular "what would YOU have done" ridiculous "comeback".... Well a smartass question like that deserves an equally smartass reply. Even with my complete lack of scouting and front office experience, and having never played football above the pee-wee level, I can guarantee with 100% certainty this fact : Had I been in Ricky's position(s) since 2006, the absolute WORST I would have done would be just 1 less playoff victory these past 11 seasons than he has posted. I don't think that's too bad, considering his vast experience and reputation as one of the best GM's in the NFL, don't you think?
You'll always be my Jerseyboy...FACT....Guaranteed with 100% certainty. What exit did you live off of?
Quote: @mgobluevikes said:
@ njvike said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ njvike said:
....Between April of 2011 and September of 2016, Schpielman has used THREE FIRST ROUND draft picks (and a grand total of 5 draft picks) on Quarterbacks, and on 9/24/2017, the starter/backup combo for the Vikings is Keenum/Sloter?? Meanwhile, regarding the three 1st rounders : 1 is out of the NFL, 1 is still rehabbing from a potentially career ending injury (non-contact) and the last is seeking a 2nd opinion from a specialist regarding a mysterious non-contact injury to his twice-surgically-repaired knee?
Do I have my facts straight, or am I just being a "hater"?
Those are the facts. What's your point, that he didn't make the right choice at QB, as evidenced by 1 bust and a freak non-contact injury? That would also be fact. Apparently, the only good GM's are clairvoyant? As mentioned earlier, my problem with Rick is his negligence in addressing the offensive line for so long, and trying to build it on the cheap. I also, didn't like jumping back into the 1st round for some of the picks we got. (Waynes, Treadwell)...
As for what we have with Sam, given what happened with Teddy, what would you have done j erseyboy? Who else was available that gave us a chance to win that wouldn't have cost us more than a 1st round pick? I'd say he did the absolutely best thing he could have done given the dire situation we were in.
My point was illustrating to Viking fans just how much draft equity Saint Richard has, thus far, pissed away on the QB position in just a little over 5 years. I also posted above Spielman's ACTUAL W-L record as VP and/or GM. Nothing irritates a Rickophant more than seeing his actual accomplishments (or, more accurately, his stunning LACK of accomplishments) in print, just the FACTS without all the usual EXCUSES. But, hey, keep on focusing on individual draft picks, trades, signings, etc. As Zimmer himself says : "Don't tell me about he labor, show me the baby".
Regarding "jerseyboy"? I was actually born and raised in the Bronx, and lived all over NYC. I opted for njvike when joining PT back in 1999 or 2000, when I happened to be living in NJ at the time. For the past 13 years, I've been in the Charlotte, NC area. Maybe I should update my nom du plume so you can childishly ridicule me personally with the proper state?
Lastly, the ever popular "what would YOU have done" ridiculous "comeback".... Well a smartass question like that deserves an equally smartass reply. Even with my complete lack of scouting and front office experience, and having never played football above the pee-wee level, I can guarantee with 100% certainty this fact : Had I been in Ricky's position(s) since 2006, the absolute WORST I would have done would be just 1 less playoff victory these past 11 seasons than he has posted. I don't think that's too bad, considering his vast experience and reputation as one of the best GM's in the NFL, don't you think?
You'll always be my Jerseyboy...FACT....Guaranteed with 100% certainty. What exit did you live off of?
Exit 69.....right where your ancestors used to offer hummers for 50 cents and all he/she can eat!
By the way, what were the directions to your shack again? Left at the bear that looks like a rock and right at the rock that looks like a bear? Or the other way around?
No matter. You have yourself a nice weekend, Hillbilly!
Quote: @njvike said:
@ Bullazin said:
@ njvike said:
@ Bullazin said:
@ njvike said:-
....Between April of 2011 and September of 2016, Schpielman has used THREE FIRST ROUND draft picks (and a grand total of 5 draft picks) on Quarterbacks, and on 9/24/2017, the starter/backup combo for the Vikings is Keenum/Sloter?? Meanwhile, regarding the three 1st rounders : 1 is out of the NFL, 1 is still rehabbing from a potentially career ending injury (non-contact) and the last is seeking a 2nd opinion from a specialist regarding a mysterious non-contact injury to his twice-surgically-repaired knee?
Do I have my facts straight, or am I just being a "hater"?
i dont see a problem stipulating, but i really dont see a point to it. Ponder was a bust. it happens once or more to nearly every GM.
Spielman is not a God or anything but he appears to be better than average, possibly one of the better GM's. can you bring any convincing, objective data to the contrary?
Sure....his actual RECORD as VP/GM
Miami 2002-2004 (SR VP of Player Personnel/GM)
Regular season : 23-25
Playoffs : NONE
Minnesota 2006-Current, 11 full seasons (VP of Player Personnel/GM)
Regular season : 86-89-1
Playoffs : 1*-4 (asterisk on lone Favre-led playoff win. Favre was brought/recruited to Vikings by Childress and the Wilf's (checkbook)
That's a combined regular season record (over 14 seasons) of 109-114-1, not to mention the abysmal 1*-4 playoff record, for HIS TEAMS.
If you consider those RESULTS better than average and possibly being one of the better GM's in the league, then you and I have DRASTICALLY different definitions of the terms "better than average" and "one of the better GM's in the league"
i found 42-39 since he became GM. you really want to fault speilly for red mccombs, chiliwacker, all day kid beating suspensions and injury, and les frazier? by all accounts he drafts well. i wanted him to draft Aaron Donald and Carr, but there were legitimate reasons he drafted the other options.
you could make an argument that he could be upgraded, but who is your target? and is the target feasible? i dont see speilly at the top of our issues list
Ricky was NEVER here under McCombs. And since he stepped foot on Winter Park, he was VP of Player Personnel and in TOTAL charge of both college and pro scouting departments. This false assumption that he had NOTHING to do ANY decisions, despite his title and being 1/3 of the TOA, is complete horse hockey. But even using your "selective" stats, you truly think 42-39 and 0-2 in playoffs qualifies him as one of the best in the league?! SMH, my comment of our different definitions stands.
And my target? Since I'm not wirking in the league and have no knowledge of EVERY personnel executive for all 32 teams, I can't give you a single name at this time. I CAN, however, tell you what I would advise Zygi and Mark to do.....put together a consulting group comprised of former NFL execs ( Parcells, Polian, Casserly, etc.) and have them use their vast contacts in the NFL (with a combined 100+ years experience with numerous teams, I'm assuming they'd have good contacts at most, if not all teams) and come up with a list of "up-and-comers".
Then, go through a vetting process and present the Wilf's with @ 5 candidates to interview. Whomever they choose, I have a hard time imagining it could be WORSE than 1 playoff win in 11 seasons.
Time for a change, even if it's change for change's sake. Whatever THIS is, it's OBVIOUSLY not working.
i havent made any false assumptions so i dont know why you argue that. i said possibly among the better based on information that has been delivered by league sources. you seem to struggle with some fine details in forming your opinions. the second part of your post sounds fine, but then we would have to agree that he needs to be replaced. i dont see it at the present so i disagree
Quote: @Bullazin said: p
@ njvike said:
@ Bullazin said:
@ njvike said:
@ Bullazin said:
@ njvike said:-
....Between April of 2011 and September of 2016, Schpielman has used THREE FIRST ROUND draft picks (and a grand total of 5 draft picks) on Quarterbacks, and on 9/24/2017, the starter/backup combo for the Vikings is Keenum/Sloter?? Meanwhile, regarding the three 1st rounders : 1 is out of the NFL, 1 is still rehabbing from a potentially career ending injury (non-contact) and the last is seeking a 2nd opinion from a specialist regarding a mysterious non-contact injury to his twice-surgically-repaired knee?
Do I have my facts straight, or am I just being a "hater"?
i dont see a problem stipulating, but i really dont see a point to it. Ponder was a bust. it happens once or more to nearly every GM.
Spielman is not a God or anything but he appears to be better than average, possibly one of the better GM's. can you bring any convincing, objective data to the contrary?
Sure....his actual RECORD as VP/GM
Miami 2002-2004 (SR VP of Player Personnel/GM)
Regular season : 23-25
Playoffs : NONE
Minnesota 2006-Current, 11 full seasons (VP of Player Personnel/GM)
Regular season : 86-89-1
Playoffs : 1*-4 (asterisk on lone Favre-led playoff win. Favre was brought/recruited to Vikings by Childress and the Wilf's (checkbook)
That's a combined regular season record (over 14 seasons) of 109-114-1, not to mention the abysmal 1*-4 playoff record, for HIS TEAMS.
If you consider those RESULTS better than average and possibly being one of the better GM's in the league, then you and I have DRASTICALLY different definitions of the terms "better than average" and "one of the better GM's in the league"
i found 42-39 since he became GM. you really want to fault speilly for red mccombs, chiliwacker, all day kid beating suspensions and injury, and les frazier? by all accounts he drafts well. i wanted him to draft Aaron Donald and Carr, but there were legitimate reasons he drafted the other options.
you could make an argument that he could be upgraded, but who is your target? and is the target feasible? i dont see speilly at the top of our issues list
Ricky was NEVER here under McCombs. And since he stepped foot on Winter Park, he was VP of Player Personnel and in TOTAL charge of both college and pro scouting departments. This false assumption that he had NOTHING to do ANY decisions, despite his title and being 1/3 of the TOA, is complete horse hockey. But even using your "selective" stats, you truly think 42-39 and 0-2 in playoffs qualifies him as one of the best in the league?! SMH, my comment of our different definitions stands.
And my target? Since I'm not wirking in the league and have no knowledge of EVERY personnel executive for all 32 teams, I can't give you a single name at this time. I CAN, however, tell you what I would advise Zygi and Mark to do.....put together a consulting group comprised of former NFL execs ( Parcells, Polian, Casserly, etc.) and have them use their vast contacts in the NFL (with a combined 100+ years experience with numerous teams, I'm assuming they'd have good contacts at most, if not all teams) and come up with a list of "up-and-comers".
Then, go through a vetting process and present the Wilf's with @ 5 candidates to interview. Whomever they choose, I have a hard time imagining it could be WORSE than 1 playoff win in 11 seasons.
Time for a change, even if it's change for change's sake. Whatever THIS is, it's OBVIOUSLY not working.
i havent made any false assumptions so i dont know why you argue that. i said possibly among the better based on information that has been delivered by league sources. you seem to struggle with some fine details in forming your opinions. the second part of your post sounds fine, but then we would have to agree that he needs to be replaced. i dont see it at the present so i disagree
To clarify, the obvious assumption you made was to ignore Ricky's ENTIRE Viking tenure and ONLY focus on his record as GM, as if those years prior to being anointed GM miraculously don't count. I then continued to just focus on YOUR selective criteria for judging Ricky and STILL came up with verifiable, objective data to present a case that RS is nowhere NEAR a top GM/Exec. I don't ignore or struggle with fine details, btw. In fact, I take his overall history of performance in my analysis of his results, not just a snippet of his career based on the magical title of GM.
We certainly will will have to disagree, but if you care to re-read my original post, I was simply asking if my facts on Ricky's utilization of draft picks on QB's was accurate. Simple question. It's very humorous to read these responses that focus on personally insulting ME, but never disavow the FACTS about RS's, um, shall we say, frivolous spending of draft picks with no tangible results at QB, thus far.
The fact is, despite all that draft equity spent, as it stands TODAY, the Vikings have NO CLUE who their starting QB will be 7 months from now, the start of the 2018 season. Please name me another team that has spent that kind of currency on the QB position since 2011 and still are clueless regarding their starting QB next year. If there are teams that fit that criteria (and there might be), I'm gonna hazard a guess that none of them have front offices that are considered great...and I would be further shocked if any teams meeting that criteria have the same front offices intact.
Quote: @Purplemachine said:
Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
I prefer " Lather. Rinse. Repeat. "
Its much more accurate.
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