Quote: @AGRforever said:
In fairness, I dont recall any trade downs for any of those 4 picks.
.
Actually in 2015 we got Hunter and Diggs with a total of 3 tradedowns. We traded from our original pick at 73 down to 80 then down to 88 and drafted Hunter. PT was going ballistic. For Diggs, we started with the 1st pick of the 5th round (Cassel trade to Bufffalo) and traded 9 slots down with Atlanta. They took Grady Jarrett, we took Diggs. I'd call that trade a win/win for us and the Falcons.
OTOH, we traded up for Dalvin. Despite his reputation, he didn't just always trade down for the hell of it.
IMHO, what spelled the end for Rick was a combination of things:
1. from 2015-2020, spending 3 1sts, a 2nd and a 3rd on CB and having only Dantzler left by 2021. That's a lot of whiffing at one position.
2. Ignoring the OL for too long. The Vikings didn't draft an OL before the 3rd round from 2010-2017.
3. Zimmer's reaction to the Cousins signing. Zimmer didn't want KC, and when RS signed him anyway, Zimmer took it out on Cousins. This started the RS/Zimmer rift which widened until they both fell into it and got canned.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ greediron said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Yeah, it is kinda funny claiming Rick only had picks cuz Rick sucked, or that Rick only had picks cuz he traded away all his good picks. Rick was a great manipulator of draft picks. He moved well, dropped when he saw value and usually came out with a steal. This article attests to that.
Rick really struggled and ultimately was fired because he couldn't draft a QB (or wouldn't draft a QB once he thought he had his guy) and because he sucked at drafting offensive lineman. Cousins could have been the answer, but the line really affected his play (insert cousins hating dog whistle here). Who knows, maybe because if we had a good OC, they got hired as a HC the following season. Maybe because Sparano died and left the Oline room in disarray. Maybe because Zim was a defensive coach and couldn't figure out the offensive side.
Lots of excuses, but ultimately it was the lack of QB play that doomed him. We ended up paying for Cousins and I think that was the beginning of the end for Rick and Zim.
And let's dig into the topic of quarterbacks. The Vikings only drafted in the top 10 three times while Spielman was the GM or the defacto GM. 2007 when we drafted Adrian Peterson (7th), 2012 when we drafted Matt Kalil (4th), and 2014 when we drafted Anthony Barr (9th).
- In 2011 we win a completely meaningless game week 16 on the road at Washington, which moved us from the first overall pick to the third overall pick (which we would swap with Cleveland for the 4th pick). We lose that meaningless game and we would have had the #1 overall pick which would have been Andrew Luck. Imagine how that one game shifted the fortunes of this franchise and the perception of Spielman.
- In the 2011 draft we took a swing at Ponder and missed. He did however follow that up by drafting Kyle Rudolph in the second round who would go on to catch more touchdown passes by any TE in team history (by double).
- in 2014 we trade back up into the first round to take Teddy Bridgewater. Teddy showed a lot of promise before his career was derailed by the catastrophic leg injury heading into year three. We don't know how his career might have turned out otherwise but he was a Spielman pick that he was extremely high on. For the record, I was a big Derek Carr guy that year and was pretty upset when we drafted Bridgewater over him.
From that point on we were never a bad enough team to be in position to draft an elite signal caller, and it's why we broke the bank in free agency bringing in Cousins in free agency. Cousins was supposed to be the missing piece on an otherwise championship caliber roster. Instead Zimmer implodes, his message grew stale with the players, and here we are now...
It isn't the first round picks at QB that were the issue. Cousins was a 4th round pick, the same year the redskins drafted RGIII high in the first round.
Mahomes, Rodgers, and many others weren't high first round picks. But they were taken when the team had a QB in house. It is the willingness to take a chance even if you already have a QB. That was Rick's issue.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ greediron said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Yeah, it is kinda funny claiming Rick only had picks cuz Rick sucked, or that Rick only had picks cuz he traded away all his good picks. Rick was a great manipulator of draft picks. He moved well, dropped when he saw value and usually came out with a steal. This article attests to that.
Rick really struggled and ultimately was fired because he couldn't draft a QB (or wouldn't draft a QB once he thought he had his guy) and because he sucked at drafting offensive lineman. Cousins could have been the answer, but the line really affected his play (insert cousins hating dog whistle here). Who knows, maybe because if we had a good OC, they got hired as a HC the following season. Maybe because Sparano died and left the Oline room in disarray. Maybe because Zim was a defensive coach and couldn't figure out the offensive side.
Lots of excuses, but ultimately it was the lack of QB play that doomed him. We ended up paying for Cousins and I think that was the beginning of the end for Rick and Zim.
And let's dig into the topic of quarterbacks. The Vikings only drafted in the top 10 three times while Spielman was the GM or the defacto GM. 2007 when we drafted Adrian Peterson (7th), 2012 when we drafted Matt Kalil (4th), and 2014 when we drafted Anthony Barr (9th).
- In 2011 we win a completely meaningless game week 16 on the road at Washington, which moved us from the first overall pick to the third overall pick (which we would swap with Cleveland for the 4th pick). We lose that meaningless game and we would have had the #1 overall pick which would have been Andrew Luck. Imagine how that one game shifted the fortunes of this franchise and the perception of Spielman.
- In the 2011 draft we took a swing at Ponder and missed. He did however follow that up by drafting Kyle Rudolph in the second round who would go on to catch more touchdown passes by any TE in team history (by double).
- in 2014 we trade back up into the first round to take Teddy Bridgewater. Teddy showed a lot of promise before his career was derailed by the catastrophic leg injury heading into year three. We don't know how his career might have turned out otherwise but he was a Spielman pick that he was extremely high on. For the record, I was a big Derek Carr guy that year and was pretty upset when we drafted Bridgewater over him.
From that point on we were never a bad enough team to be in position to draft an elite signal caller, and it's why we broke the bank in free agency bringing in Cousins in free agency. Cousins was supposed to be the missing piece on an otherwise championship caliber roster. Instead Zimmer implodes, his message grew stale with the players, and here we are now...
It isn't the first round picks at QB that were the issue. Cousins was a 4th round pick, the same year the redskins drafted RGIII high in the first round.
Mahomes, Rodgers, and many others weren't high first round picks. But they were taken when the team had a QB in house. It is the willingness to take a chance even if you already have a QB. That was Rick's issue.
I agree with you and it was one of my issues relating to Rick was his reluctance to take a swing and get a young guy in the pipeline at quarterback and always filling the backup roles with the Mannion's and Shaun Hill's of the world. The only time I ever really felt we ever had a truly capable backup under Rick was when we had Case Keenum, and that ended up paying off huge.
But all things considered, he won more games then any GM in the history of the organization. He drafted some of the greatest players in franchise history and if my choice was between Rick as the GM or what I've seen after two Mensah offseasons...I'd take Rick every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ greediron said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Yeah, it is kinda funny claiming Rick only had picks cuz Rick sucked, or that Rick only had picks cuz he traded away all his good picks. Rick was a great manipulator of draft picks. He moved well, dropped when he saw value and usually came out with a steal. This article attests to that.
Rick really struggled and ultimately was fired because he couldn't draft a QB (or wouldn't draft a QB once he thought he had his guy) and because he sucked at drafting offensive lineman. Cousins could have been the answer, but the line really affected his play (insert cousins hating dog whistle here). Who knows, maybe because if we had a good OC, they got hired as a HC the following season. Maybe because Sparano died and left the Oline room in disarray. Maybe because Zim was a defensive coach and couldn't figure out the offensive side.
Lots of excuses, but ultimately it was the lack of QB play that doomed him. We ended up paying for Cousins and I think that was the beginning of the end for Rick and Zim.
And let's dig into the topic of quarterbacks. The Vikings only drafted in the top 10 three times while Spielman was the GM or the defacto GM. 2007 when we drafted Adrian Peterson (7th), 2012 when we drafted Matt Kalil (4th), and 2014 when we drafted Anthony Barr (9th).
- In 2011 we win a completely meaningless game week 16 on the road at Washington, which moved us from the first overall pick to the third overall pick (which we would swap with Cleveland for the 4th pick). We lose that meaningless game and we would have had the #1 overall pick which would have been Andrew Luck. Imagine how that one game shifted the fortunes of this franchise and the perception of Spielman.
- In the 2011 draft we took a swing at Ponder and missed. He did however follow that up by drafting Kyle Rudolph in the second round who would go on to catch more touchdown passes by any TE in team history (by double).
- in 2014 we trade back up into the first round to take Teddy Bridgewater. Teddy showed a lot of promise before his career was derailed by the catastrophic leg injury heading into year three. We don't know how his career might have turned out otherwise but he was a Spielman pick that he was extremely high on. For the record, I was a big Derek Carr guy that year and was pretty upset when we drafted Bridgewater over him.
From that point on we were never a bad enough team to be in position to draft an elite signal caller, and it's why we broke the bank in free agency bringing in Cousins in free agency. Cousins was supposed to be the missing piece on an otherwise championship caliber roster. Instead Zimmer implodes, his message grew stale with the players, and here we are now...
It isn't the first round picks at QB that were the issue. Cousins was a 4th round pick, the same year the redskins drafted RGIII high in the first round.
Mahomes, Rodgers, and many others weren't high first round picks. But they were taken when the team had a QB in house. It is the willingness to take a chance even if you already have a QB. That was Rick's issue. We missed on Ponder, as did everyone that year. We had Teddy...until we didn't. Then Bradford...until we didn't. After Teddy and Bradford, we brought in Cousins. So I'm trying to think of QBs we should've drafted at our slot but didn't. Lamar Jackson comes to mind. Late 1st rounder the year we took Hughes. But it would've been pretty silly to draft Jackson considering we had just signed Cousins to pots of money a month before.
Russell Wilson went in the 3rd. But that's a half-court shot a year after you drafted your QBOTF. All this to say luck and timing play a big part.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ greediron said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ greediron said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Yeah, it is kinda funny claiming Rick only had picks cuz Rick sucked, or that Rick only had picks cuz he traded away all his good picks. Rick was a great manipulator of draft picks. He moved well, dropped when he saw value and usually came out with a steal. This article attests to that.
Rick really struggled and ultimately was fired because he couldn't draft a QB (or wouldn't draft a QB once he thought he had his guy) and because he sucked at drafting offensive lineman. Cousins could have been the answer, but the line really affected his play (insert cousins hating dog whistle here). Who knows, maybe because if we had a good OC, they got hired as a HC the following season. Maybe because Sparano died and left the Oline room in disarray. Maybe because Zim was a defensive coach and couldn't figure out the offensive side.
Lots of excuses, but ultimately it was the lack of QB play that doomed him. We ended up paying for Cousins and I think that was the beginning of the end for Rick and Zim.
And let's dig into the topic of quarterbacks. The Vikings only drafted in the top 10 three times while Spielman was the GM or the defacto GM. 2007 when we drafted Adrian Peterson (7th), 2012 when we drafted Matt Kalil (4th), and 2014 when we drafted Anthony Barr (9th).
- In 2011 we win a completely meaningless game week 16 on the road at Washington, which moved us from the first overall pick to the third overall pick (which we would swap with Cleveland for the 4th pick). We lose that meaningless game and we would have had the #1 overall pick which would have been Andrew Luck. Imagine how that one game shifted the fortunes of this franchise and the perception of Spielman.
- In the 2011 draft we took a swing at Ponder and missed. He did however follow that up by drafting Kyle Rudolph in the second round who would go on to catch more touchdown passes by any TE in team history (by double).
- in 2014 we trade back up into the first round to take Teddy Bridgewater. Teddy showed a lot of promise before his career was derailed by the catastrophic leg injury heading into year three. We don't know how his career might have turned out otherwise but he was a Spielman pick that he was extremely high on. For the record, I was a big Derek Carr guy that year and was pretty upset when we drafted Bridgewater over him.
From that point on we were never a bad enough team to be in position to draft an elite signal caller, and it's why we broke the bank in free agency bringing in Cousins in free agency. Cousins was supposed to be the missing piece on an otherwise championship caliber roster. Instead Zimmer implodes, his message grew stale with the players, and here we are now...
It isn't the first round picks at QB that were the issue. Cousins was a 4th round pick, the same year the redskins drafted RGIII high in the first round.
Mahomes, Rodgers, and many others weren't high first round picks. But they were taken when the team had a QB in house. It is the willingness to take a chance even if you already have a QB. That was Rick's issue. We missed on Ponder, as did everyone that year. We had Teddy...until we didn't. Then Bradford...until we didn't. After Teddy and Bradford, we brought in Cousins. So I'm trying to think of QBs we should've drafted at our slot but didn't. Lamar Jackson comes to mind. Late 1st rounder the year we took Hughes. But it would've been pretty silly to draft Jackson considering we had just signed Cousins to pots of money a month before.
Russell Wilson went in the 3rd. But that's a half-court shot a year after you drafted your QBOTF. All this to say luck and timing play a big part.
Bradford was never going to be a long term solution, not targeting QB because you traded for SB is a lack of awareness considering Sams age and injury history.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ greediron said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ greediron said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Yeah, it is kinda funny claiming Rick only had picks cuz Rick sucked, or that Rick only had picks cuz he traded away all his good picks. Rick was a great manipulator of draft picks. He moved well, dropped when he saw value and usually came out with a steal. This article attests to that.
Rick really struggled and ultimately was fired because he couldn't draft a QB (or wouldn't draft a QB once he thought he had his guy) and because he sucked at drafting offensive lineman. Cousins could have been the answer, but the line really affected his play (insert cousins hating dog whistle here). Who knows, maybe because if we had a good OC, they got hired as a HC the following season. Maybe because Sparano died and left the Oline room in disarray. Maybe because Zim was a defensive coach and couldn't figure out the offensive side.
Lots of excuses, but ultimately it was the lack of QB play that doomed him. We ended up paying for Cousins and I think that was the beginning of the end for Rick and Zim.
And let's dig into the topic of quarterbacks. The Vikings only drafted in the top 10 three times while Spielman was the GM or the defacto GM. 2007 when we drafted Adrian Peterson (7th), 2012 when we drafted Matt Kalil (4th), and 2014 when we drafted Anthony Barr (9th).
- In 2011 we win a completely meaningless game week 16 on the road at Washington, which moved us from the first overall pick to the third overall pick (which we would swap with Cleveland for the 4th pick). We lose that meaningless game and we would have had the #1 overall pick which would have been Andrew Luck. Imagine how that one game shifted the fortunes of this franchise and the perception of Spielman.
- In the 2011 draft we took a swing at Ponder and missed. He did however follow that up by drafting Kyle Rudolph in the second round who would go on to catch more touchdown passes by any TE in team history (by double).
- in 2014 we trade back up into the first round to take Teddy Bridgewater. Teddy showed a lot of promise before his career was derailed by the catastrophic leg injury heading into year three. We don't know how his career might have turned out otherwise but he was a Spielman pick that he was extremely high on. For the record, I was a big Derek Carr guy that year and was pretty upset when we drafted Bridgewater over him.
From that point on we were never a bad enough team to be in position to draft an elite signal caller, and it's why we broke the bank in free agency bringing in Cousins in free agency. Cousins was supposed to be the missing piece on an otherwise championship caliber roster. Instead Zimmer implodes, his message grew stale with the players, and here we are now...
It isn't the first round picks at QB that were the issue. Cousins was a 4th round pick, the same year the redskins drafted RGIII high in the first round.
Mahomes, Rodgers, and many others weren't high first round picks. But they were taken when the team had a QB in house. It is the willingness to take a chance even if you already have a QB. That was Rick's issue. We missed on Ponder, as did everyone that year. We had Teddy...until we didn't. Then Bradford...until we didn't. After Teddy and Bradford, we brought in Cousins. So I'm trying to think of QBs we should've drafted at our slot but didn't. Lamar Jackson comes to mind. Late 1st rounder the year we took Hughes. But it would've been pretty silly to draft Jackson considering we had just signed Cousins to pots of money a month before.
Russell Wilson went in the 3rd. But that's a half-court shot a year after you drafted your QBOTF. All this to say luck and timing play a big part.
So while we were floundering with Ponder, and while we still had Teddy, there was no QB worth taking a shot in the 3rd or 4th? Wilson was a half-court shot, but you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. That cliche is peak Spielman.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ greediron said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ greediron said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Yeah, it is kinda funny claiming Rick only had picks cuz Rick sucked, or that Rick only had picks cuz he traded away all his good picks. Rick was a great manipulator of draft picks. He moved well, dropped when he saw value and usually came out with a steal. This article attests to that.
Rick really struggled and ultimately was fired because he couldn't draft a QB (or wouldn't draft a QB once he thought he had his guy) and because he sucked at drafting offensive lineman. Cousins could have been the answer, but the line really affected his play (insert cousins hating dog whistle here). Who knows, maybe because if we had a good OC, they got hired as a HC the following season. Maybe because Sparano died and left the Oline room in disarray. Maybe because Zim was a defensive coach and couldn't figure out the offensive side.
Lots of excuses, but ultimately it was the lack of QB play that doomed him. We ended up paying for Cousins and I think that was the beginning of the end for Rick and Zim.
And let's dig into the topic of quarterbacks. The Vikings only drafted in the top 10 three times while Spielman was the GM or the defacto GM. 2007 when we drafted Adrian Peterson (7th), 2012 when we drafted Matt Kalil (4th), and 2014 when we drafted Anthony Barr (9th).
- In 2011 we win a completely meaningless game week 16 on the road at Washington, which moved us from the first overall pick to the third overall pick (which we would swap with Cleveland for the 4th pick). We lose that meaningless game and we would have had the #1 overall pick which would have been Andrew Luck. Imagine how that one game shifted the fortunes of this franchise and the perception of Spielman.
- In the 2011 draft we took a swing at Ponder and missed. He did however follow that up by drafting Kyle Rudolph in the second round who would go on to catch more touchdown passes by any TE in team history (by double).
- in 2014 we trade back up into the first round to take Teddy Bridgewater. Teddy showed a lot of promise before his career was derailed by the catastrophic leg injury heading into year three. We don't know how his career might have turned out otherwise but he was a Spielman pick that he was extremely high on. For the record, I was a big Derek Carr guy that year and was pretty upset when we drafted Bridgewater over him.
From that point on we were never a bad enough team to be in position to draft an elite signal caller, and it's why we broke the bank in free agency bringing in Cousins in free agency. Cousins was supposed to be the missing piece on an otherwise championship caliber roster. Instead Zimmer implodes, his message grew stale with the players, and here we are now...
It isn't the first round picks at QB that were the issue. Cousins was a 4th round pick, the same year the redskins drafted RGIII high in the first round.
Mahomes, Rodgers, and many others weren't high first round picks. But they were taken when the team had a QB in house. It is the willingness to take a chance even if you already have a QB. That was Rick's issue. We missed on Ponder, as did everyone that year. We had Teddy...until we didn't. Then Bradford...until we didn't. After Teddy and Bradford, we brought in Cousins. So I'm trying to think of QBs we should've drafted at our slot but didn't. Lamar Jackson comes to mind. Late 1st rounder the year we took Hughes. But it would've been pretty silly to draft Jackson considering we had just signed Cousins to pots of money a month before.
Russell Wilson went in the 3rd. But that's a half-court shot a year after you drafted your QBOTF. All this to say luck and timing play a big part.
Bradford was never going to be a long term solution, not targeting QB because you traded for SB is a lack of awareness considering Sams age and injury history.
You don't know that. He was 28 when we traded for him. Hell, he's only 35 even now. And I still maintain that the best QBing we've seen since Favre was Bradford. Didn't last long, but he was damn good. It's a real shame he couldn't stay healthy.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ greediron said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ greediron said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Yeah, it is kinda funny claiming Rick only had picks cuz Rick sucked, or that Rick only had picks cuz he traded away all his good picks. Rick was a great manipulator of draft picks. He moved well, dropped when he saw value and usually came out with a steal. This article attests to that.
Rick really struggled and ultimately was fired because he couldn't draft a QB (or wouldn't draft a QB once he thought he had his guy) and because he sucked at drafting offensive lineman. Cousins could have been the answer, but the line really affected his play (insert cousins hating dog whistle here). Who knows, maybe because if we had a good OC, they got hired as a HC the following season. Maybe because Sparano died and left the Oline room in disarray. Maybe because Zim was a defensive coach and couldn't figure out the offensive side.
Lots of excuses, but ultimately it was the lack of QB play that doomed him. We ended up paying for Cousins and I think that was the beginning of the end for Rick and Zim.
And let's dig into the topic of quarterbacks. The Vikings only drafted in the top 10 three times while Spielman was the GM or the defacto GM. 2007 when we drafted Adrian Peterson (7th), 2012 when we drafted Matt Kalil (4th), and 2014 when we drafted Anthony Barr (9th).
- In 2011 we win a completely meaningless game week 16 on the road at Washington, which moved us from the first overall pick to the third overall pick (which we would swap with Cleveland for the 4th pick). We lose that meaningless game and we would have had the #1 overall pick which would have been Andrew Luck. Imagine how that one game shifted the fortunes of this franchise and the perception of Spielman.
- In the 2011 draft we took a swing at Ponder and missed. He did however follow that up by drafting Kyle Rudolph in the second round who would go on to catch more touchdown passes by any TE in team history (by double).
- in 2014 we trade back up into the first round to take Teddy Bridgewater. Teddy showed a lot of promise before his career was derailed by the catastrophic leg injury heading into year three. We don't know how his career might have turned out otherwise but he was a Spielman pick that he was extremely high on. For the record, I was a big Derek Carr guy that year and was pretty upset when we drafted Bridgewater over him.
From that point on we were never a bad enough team to be in position to draft an elite signal caller, and it's why we broke the bank in free agency bringing in Cousins in free agency. Cousins was supposed to be the missing piece on an otherwise championship caliber roster. Instead Zimmer implodes, his message grew stale with the players, and here we are now...
It isn't the first round picks at QB that were the issue. Cousins was a 4th round pick, the same year the redskins drafted RGIII high in the first round.
Mahomes, Rodgers, and many others weren't high first round picks. But they were taken when the team had a QB in house. It is the willingness to take a chance even if you already have a QB. That was Rick's issue. We missed on Ponder, as did everyone that year. We had Teddy...until we didn't. Then Bradford...until we didn't. After Teddy and Bradford, we brought in Cousins. So I'm trying to think of QBs we should've drafted at our slot but didn't. Lamar Jackson comes to mind. Late 1st rounder the year we took Hughes. But it would've been pretty silly to draft Jackson considering we had just signed Cousins to pots of money a month before.
Russell Wilson went in the 3rd. But that's a half-court shot a year after you drafted your QBOTF. All this to say luck and timing play a big part.
So while we were floundering with Ponder, and while we still had Teddy, there was no QB worth taking a shot in the 3rd or 4th? Wilson was a half-court shot, but you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. That cliche is peak Spielman.
There was only one season when we had both Ponder and Bridgewater. And no draft. Vikings drafted Teddy in 2014 and moved on from Ponder before the 2015 draft.
And even if you argue that we should've taken a shot on a middle round QB when we still had Teddy, that limits you to the 2015 and 2016 draft. The QBs taken in the 3rd and 4th rounds that year were Bryce Petty, Sean Mannion, Garrett Grayson, Cardale Jones, Dak Prescott, Connor Cook, Cody Kessler and Jacoby Brissett.
We could've taken Dak I guess, and maybe we should have. But it certainly shouldn't raise pitchforks that we didn't, considering the Vikings just drafted the QB they thought was the long-term answer two years before.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ greediron said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ greediron said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Yeah, it is kinda funny claiming Rick only had picks cuz Rick sucked, or that Rick only had picks cuz he traded away all his good picks. Rick was a great manipulator of draft picks. He moved well, dropped when he saw value and usually came out with a steal. This article attests to that.
Rick really struggled and ultimately was fired because he couldn't draft a QB (or wouldn't draft a QB once he thought he had his guy) and because he sucked at drafting offensive lineman. Cousins could have been the answer, but the line really affected his play (insert cousins hating dog whistle here). Who knows, maybe because if we had a good OC, they got hired as a HC the following season. Maybe because Sparano died and left the Oline room in disarray. Maybe because Zim was a defensive coach and couldn't figure out the offensive side.
Lots of excuses, but ultimately it was the lack of QB play that doomed him. We ended up paying for Cousins and I think that was the beginning of the end for Rick and Zim.
And let's dig into the topic of quarterbacks. The Vikings only drafted in the top 10 three times while Spielman was the GM or the defacto GM. 2007 when we drafted Adrian Peterson (7th), 2012 when we drafted Matt Kalil (4th), and 2014 when we drafted Anthony Barr (9th).
- In 2011 we win a completely meaningless game week 16 on the road at Washington, which moved us from the first overall pick to the third overall pick (which we would swap with Cleveland for the 4th pick). We lose that meaningless game and we would have had the #1 overall pick which would have been Andrew Luck. Imagine how that one game shifted the fortunes of this franchise and the perception of Spielman.
- In the 2011 draft we took a swing at Ponder and missed. He did however follow that up by drafting Kyle Rudolph in the second round who would go on to catch more touchdown passes by any TE in team history (by double).
- in 2014 we trade back up into the first round to take Teddy Bridgewater. Teddy showed a lot of promise before his career was derailed by the catastrophic leg injury heading into year three. We don't know how his career might have turned out otherwise but he was a Spielman pick that he was extremely high on. For the record, I was a big Derek Carr guy that year and was pretty upset when we drafted Bridgewater over him.
From that point on we were never a bad enough team to be in position to draft an elite signal caller, and it's why we broke the bank in free agency bringing in Cousins in free agency. Cousins was supposed to be the missing piece on an otherwise championship caliber roster. Instead Zimmer implodes, his message grew stale with the players, and here we are now...
It isn't the first round picks at QB that were the issue. Cousins was a 4th round pick, the same year the redskins drafted RGIII high in the first round.
Mahomes, Rodgers, and many others weren't high first round picks. But they were taken when the team had a QB in house. It is the willingness to take a chance even if you already have a QB. That was Rick's issue. We missed on Ponder, as did everyone that year. We had Teddy...until we didn't. Then Bradford...until we didn't. After Teddy and Bradford, we brought in Cousins. So I'm trying to think of QBs we should've drafted at our slot but didn't. Lamar Jackson comes to mind. Late 1st rounder the year we took Hughes. But it would've been pretty silly to draft Jackson considering we had just signed Cousins to pots of money a month before.
Russell Wilson went in the 3rd. But that's a half-court shot a year after you drafted your QBOTF. All this to say luck and timing play a big part.
Bradford was never going to be a long term solution, not targeting QB because you traded for SB is a lack of awareness considering Sams age and injury history.
You don't know that. He was 28 when we traded for him. Hell, he's only 35 even now. And I still maintain that the best QBing we've seen since Favre was Bradford. Didn't last long, but he was damn good. It's a real shame he couldn't stay healthy.
I agree with you completely. I've never seen a quarterback throw the ball with the decisiveness, anticipation, and accuracy of Sam Bradford. It sucks the injuries derailed his career because he was a talent.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ greediron said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ greediron said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Yeah, it is kinda funny claiming Rick only had picks cuz Rick sucked, or that Rick only had picks cuz he traded away all his good picks. Rick was a great manipulator of draft picks. He moved well, dropped when he saw value and usually came out with a steal. This article attests to that.
Rick really struggled and ultimately was fired because he couldn't draft a QB (or wouldn't draft a QB once he thought he had his guy) and because he sucked at drafting offensive lineman. Cousins could have been the answer, but the line really affected his play (insert cousins hating dog whistle here). Who knows, maybe because if we had a good OC, they got hired as a HC the following season. Maybe because Sparano died and left the Oline room in disarray. Maybe because Zim was a defensive coach and couldn't figure out the offensive side.
Lots of excuses, but ultimately it was the lack of QB play that doomed him. We ended up paying for Cousins and I think that was the beginning of the end for Rick and Zim.
And let's dig into the topic of quarterbacks. The Vikings only drafted in the top 10 three times while Spielman was the GM or the defacto GM. 2007 when we drafted Adrian Peterson (7th), 2012 when we drafted Matt Kalil (4th), and 2014 when we drafted Anthony Barr (9th).
- In 2011 we win a completely meaningless game week 16 on the road at Washington, which moved us from the first overall pick to the third overall pick (which we would swap with Cleveland for the 4th pick). We lose that meaningless game and we would have had the #1 overall pick which would have been Andrew Luck. Imagine how that one game shifted the fortunes of this franchise and the perception of Spielman.
- In the 2011 draft we took a swing at Ponder and missed. He did however follow that up by drafting Kyle Rudolph in the second round who would go on to catch more touchdown passes by any TE in team history (by double).
- in 2014 we trade back up into the first round to take Teddy Bridgewater. Teddy showed a lot of promise before his career was derailed by the catastrophic leg injury heading into year three. We don't know how his career might have turned out otherwise but he was a Spielman pick that he was extremely high on. For the record, I was a big Derek Carr guy that year and was pretty upset when we drafted Bridgewater over him.
From that point on we were never a bad enough team to be in position to draft an elite signal caller, and it's why we broke the bank in free agency bringing in Cousins in free agency. Cousins was supposed to be the missing piece on an otherwise championship caliber roster. Instead Zimmer implodes, his message grew stale with the players, and here we are now...
It isn't the first round picks at QB that were the issue. Cousins was a 4th round pick, the same year the redskins drafted RGIII high in the first round.
Mahomes, Rodgers, and many others weren't high first round picks. But they were taken when the team had a QB in house. It is the willingness to take a chance even if you already have a QB. That was Rick's issue. We missed on Ponder, as did everyone that year. We had Teddy...until we didn't. Then Bradford...until we didn't. After Teddy and Bradford, we brought in Cousins. So I'm trying to think of QBs we should've drafted at our slot but didn't. Lamar Jackson comes to mind. Late 1st rounder the year we took Hughes. But it would've been pretty silly to draft Jackson considering we had just signed Cousins to pots of money a month before.
Russell Wilson went in the 3rd. But that's a half-court shot a year after you drafted your QBOTF. All this to say luck and timing play a big part.
Bradford was never going to be a long term solution, not targeting QB because you traded for SB is a lack of awareness considering Sams age and injury history.
You don't know that. He was 28 when we traded for him. Hell, he's only 35 even now. And I still maintain that the best QBing we've seen since Favre was Bradford. Didn't last long, but he was damn good. It's a real shame he couldn't stay healthy.
Even looking at Cousins. He's probably the best QB free agent acquisition since Brees? Discounting Brady choosing to take his talents to west beach for 1 good year?
Young FA QBs never hit the market. We've had one of the best. I honestly don't see much of a difference between Brees and Cousins other then charisma.
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