Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ PurplePastor said:
@ AGRforever said:
$37.5/yr average on Carrs 4yr deal.
That's kind of an ouch or am I outdated on my assessment?
the devil is in the details, otherwise its not a bad deal at face value just based on average, as long as its not all guaranteed, the team has trade rights, or some other ways the team can move on sooner if its not working out.
I read 100 Million guaranteed with a no trade clause. Carr got a really good deal imo.
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ PurplePastor said:
@ AGRforever said:
$37.5/yr average on Carrs 4yr deal.
That's kind of an ouch or am I outdated on my assessment?
It puts him behind Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray, Deshaun Watson, and Dak who all signed recent extensions. It's just in front of Cousins in terms of AAV.
Like Greylock said, it's probably a bargain when considering the average annual salary and guarantees compared to some of the other young QBs and formerly elite vets who signed extensions in the past year.
puts him at 9th in terms of avg annual. thats about where he should be IMO in terms of money.
I would put Kirk in right around there as well in terms of pay vs production. IMO Kirk has the better arm talent, but Carr has the edge in terms of pocket awareness and mobility, as well as off script plays from the little I have seen of him the last couple years.
I think both of these guys should be ahead of some of those guys making more per year, but there just isnt any value in those other guys at their numbers. Wilson, Murray, Watson, Stafford, and Prescott would all be paid less than these two if I was writing the checks, for one reason or another. Possibly not Watson, but I didnt really get a chance to watch him at the end of the year to see how he came back.
Quote: @1VikesFan said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ PurplePastor said:
@ AGRforever said:
$37.5/yr average on Carrs 4yr deal.
That's kind of an ouch or am I outdated on my assessment?
the devil is in the details, otherwise its not a bad deal at face value just based on average, as long as its not all guaranteed, the team has trade rights, or some other ways the team can move on sooner if its not working out.
I read 100 Million guaranteed with a no trade clause. Carr got a really good deal imo.
There really is no such thing as a no trade clause, just that Carr will get to say where he will accept a trade to.
Saints got quality, affordable stability at the position over the next 3 years, Carr gets a say in his next destination if it doesnt work out in nawlins. I would say it looks pretty good for both of them. If Cousins were to take a 3 year deal averaging only 2.5 more per year than what his making on the backside of his current deal I would look at it, I am not saying he is worth it, especially at his age, or that its a good move for Minny with all the holes we have to fill. But on the surface, getting a quality 32 year old QB and not having to pay him to reset the top of the market ( top 5-7 contracts) isnt terrible.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ 1VikesFan said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ PurplePastor said:
@ AGRforever said:
$37.5/yr average on Carrs 4yr deal.
That's kind of an ouch or am I outdated on my assessment?
the devil is in the details, otherwise its not a bad deal at face value just based on average, as long as its not all guaranteed, the team has trade rights, or some other ways the team can move on sooner if its not working out.
I read 100 Million guaranteed with a no trade clause. Carr got a really good deal imo.
There really is no such thing as a no trade clause, just that Carr will get to say where he will accept a trade to.
Saints got quality, affordable stability at the position over the next 3 years, Carr gets a say in his next destination if it doesnt work out in nawlins. I would say it looks pretty good for both of them. If Cousins were to take a 3 year deal averaging only 2.5 more per year than what his making on the backside of his current deal I would look at it, I am not saying he is worth it, especially at his age, or that its a good move for Minny with all the holes we have to fill. But on the surface, getting a quality 32 year old QB and not having to pay him to reset the top of the market ( top 5-7 contracts) isnt terrible.
Carr getting to refuse any trade is the same as a no trade clause. Basically he can refuse any trade.
I agree the Aint's have more stability at QB with this deal.
Would love Cousins agreeing to a similar deal but doubt he will.
Quote: @1VikesFan said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ 1VikesFan said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ PurplePastor said:
@ AGRforever said:
$37.5/yr average on Carrs 4yr deal.
That's kind of an ouch or am I outdated on my assessment?
the devil is in the details, otherwise its not a bad deal at face value just based on average, as long as its not all guaranteed, the team has trade rights, or some other ways the team can move on sooner if its not working out.
I read 100 Million guaranteed with a no trade clause. Carr got a really good deal imo.
There really is no such thing as a no trade clause, just that Carr will get to say where he will accept a trade to.
Saints got quality, affordable stability at the position over the next 3 years, Carr gets a say in his next destination if it doesnt work out in nawlins. I would say it looks pretty good for both of them. If Cousins were to take a 3 year deal averaging only 2.5 more per year than what his making on the backside of his current deal I would look at it, I am not saying he is worth it, especially at his age, or that its a good move for Minny with all the holes we have to fill. But on the surface, getting a quality 32 year old QB and not having to pay him to reset the top of the market ( top 5-7 contracts) isnt terrible.
Carr getting to refuse any trade is the same as a no trade clause. Basically he can refuse any trade.
I agree the Aint's have more stability at QB with this deal.
Would love Cousins agreeing to a similar deal but doubt he will.
he can refuse it, but if things go to shit he would likely want out of there anyway, just that this way he gets a bit of a say in where. so its not like they cant move him period, which is what the term implies, so its really not that big of a deal, especially for a QB since there are always at least a few good teams that are needing a quality QB.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ PurplePastor said:
@ AGRforever said:
$37.5/yr average on Carrs 4yr deal.
That's kind of an ouch or am I outdated on my assessment?
It puts him behind Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray, Deshaun Watson, and Dak who all signed recent extensions. It's just in front of Cousins in terms of AAV.
Like Greylock said, it's probably a bargain when considering the average annual salary and guarantees compared to some of the other young QBs and formerly elite vets who signed extensions in the past year.
puts him at 9th in terms of avg annual. thats about where he should be IMO in terms of money.
I would put Kirk in right around there as well in terms of pay vs production. IMO Kirk has the better arm talent, but Carr has the edge in terms of pocket awareness and mobility, as well as off script plays from the little I have seen of him the last couple years.
I think both of these guys should be ahead of some of those guys making more per year, but there just isnt any value in those other guys at their numbers. Wilson, Murray, Watson, Stafford, and Prescott would all be paid less than these two if I was writing the checks, for one reason or another. Possibly not Watson, but I didnt really get a chance to watch him at the end of the year to see how he came back.
Cousins and Carr have almost identical numbers as far as rushing with Kirk actually with a few more attempts. In every throwing category Cousins is ahead of Carr.
As far as extending Cousins, the market is set, by the likes of Carr, Murray, Prescott, and Stafford. I don't think there's a chance Cousins signs for less than 39-40 mill per, knowing that in 2 years guys like Herbert, Lawrence, Lawrence, Hurts, and who knows who else will be inking deals way beyond his, as the cap gets fatter.
Quote: @mgobluevikes said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ PurplePastor said:
@ AGRforever said:
$37.5/yr average on Carrs 4yr deal.
That's kind of an ouch or am I outdated on my assessment?
It puts him behind Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray, Deshaun Watson, and Dak who all signed recent extensions. It's just in front of Cousins in terms of AAV.
Like Greylock said, it's probably a bargain when considering the average annual salary and guarantees compared to some of the other young QBs and formerly elite vets who signed extensions in the past year.
puts him at 9th in terms of avg annual. thats about where he should be IMO in terms of money.
I would put Kirk in right around there as well in terms of pay vs production. IMO Kirk has the better arm talent, but Carr has the edge in terms of pocket awareness and mobility, as well as off script plays from the little I have seen of him the last couple years.
I think both of these guys should be ahead of some of those guys making more per year, but there just isnt any value in those other guys at their numbers. Wilson, Murray, Watson, Stafford, and Prescott would all be paid less than these two if I was writing the checks, for one reason or another. Possibly not Watson, but I didnt really get a chance to watch him at the end of the year to see how he came back.
Cousins and Carr have almost identical numbers as far as rushing with Kirk actually with a few more attempts. In every throwing category Cousins is ahead of Carr.
As far as extending Cousins, the market is set, by the likes of Carr, Murray, Prescott, and Stafford. I don't think there's a chance Cousins signs for less than 39-40 mill per, knowing that in 2 years guys like Herbert, Lawrence, Lawrence, Hurts, and who knows who else will be inking deals way beyond his, as the cap gets fatter.
Then I move on, I dont care what other teams do, anything more than what Carr got is overpaying for the results we get. Time to find our own QB.
The two points I take from those facts are, one, the idea the Vikings have ignored the QB position is just a perception. They just missed on all three. It happens. KC drafted 22 QBs before landing Mahomes.
And two, the Saints clearly believe that finding a proven veteran is a better route to success than the draft. I tend to agree. I don't think Carr is quite on Cousins level, but is he good enough to win a Super Bowl with the right team around him? Yeah, you bet.
Oh, a third point: The cap is a myth.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ PurplePastor said:
@ AGRforever said:
$37.5/yr average on Carrs 4yr deal.
That's kind of an ouch or am I outdated on my assessment?
It puts him behind Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray, Deshaun Watson, and Dak who all signed recent extensions. It's just in front of Cousins in terms of AAV.
Like Greylock said, it's probably a bargain when considering the average annual salary and guarantees compared to some of the other young QBs and formerly elite vets who signed extensions in the past year.
puts him at 9th in terms of avg annual. thats about where he should be IMO in terms of money.
I would put Kirk in right around there as well in terms of pay vs production. IMO Kirk has the better arm talent, but Carr has the edge in terms of pocket awareness and mobility, as well as off script plays from the little I have seen of him the last couple years.
I think both of these guys should be ahead of some of those guys making more per year, but there just isnt any value in those other guys at their numbers. Wilson, Murray, Watson, Stafford, and Prescott would all be paid less than these two if I was writing the checks, for one reason or another. Possibly not Watson, but I didnt really get a chance to watch him at the end of the year to see how he came back.
Cousins and Carr have almost identical numbers as far as rushing with Kirk actually with a few more attempts. In every throwing category Cousins is ahead of Carr.
As far as extending Cousins, the market is set, by the likes of Carr, Murray, Prescott, and Stafford. I don't think there's a chance Cousins signs for less than 39-40 mill per, knowing that in 2 years guys like Herbert, Lawrence, Lawrence, Hurts, and who knows who else will be inking deals way beyond his, as the cap gets fatter.
Then I move on, I dont care what other teams do, anything more than what Carr got is overpaying for the results we get. Time to find our own QB. You've written many times here that we need to draft our QB of the future. I agree we should be trying to do that. You've also said that you wouldn't throw a rookie QB into the fire and ruin him and we'll need a bridge. So, how much draft capital do we intend to spend on this QB this year to ensure we don't end up with the the next Zach Wilson, Blaine Gabbert, Blake Bortles, Jake Locker, Marcus Mariota, Jamis Winston? Of course, our 31st rated defense needs help at every position group, we need at least 1 more interior O-lineman, and will probably have to replace Theilen and Cook. Only 4 picks, no 2nd rounder. How many future firsts are we willing to mortgage to get our guy?
As Rich Eisen mentioned yesterday, there is no such thing as moderately priced QB market. When Geno Smith, year off the trash heap is awarded 105 mil 3 yr. contract, proves the point. Signing a bridge "starter", that might not get you through the year, is still going to cost 30 mil, and will be a major drop off from our current production.
We have a choice of either drafting over and over until we find the unicorn, paying below market value for 5 yrs. or paying market value for a proven entity. I don't know if there's a right answer.
Quote: @mgobluevikes said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ PurplePastor said:
@ AGRforever said:
$37.5/yr average on Carrs 4yr deal.
That's kind of an ouch or am I outdated on my assessment?
It puts him behind Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray, Deshaun Watson, and Dak who all signed recent extensions. It's just in front of Cousins in terms of AAV.
Like Greylock said, it's probably a bargain when considering the average annual salary and guarantees compared to some of the other young QBs and formerly elite vets who signed extensions in the past year.
puts him at 9th in terms of avg annual. thats about where he should be IMO in terms of money.
I would put Kirk in right around there as well in terms of pay vs production. IMO Kirk has the better arm talent, but Carr has the edge in terms of pocket awareness and mobility, as well as off script plays from the little I have seen of him the last couple years.
I think both of these guys should be ahead of some of those guys making more per year, but there just isnt any value in those other guys at their numbers. Wilson, Murray, Watson, Stafford, and Prescott would all be paid less than these two if I was writing the checks, for one reason or another. Possibly not Watson, but I didnt really get a chance to watch him at the end of the year to see how he came back.
Cousins and Carr have almost identical numbers as far as rushing with Kirk actually with a few more attempts. In every throwing category Cousins is ahead of Carr.
As far as extending Cousins, the market is set, by the likes of Carr, Murray, Prescott, and Stafford. I don't think there's a chance Cousins signs for less than 39-40 mill per, knowing that in 2 years guys like Herbert, Lawrence, Lawrence, Hurts, and who knows who else will be inking deals way beyond his, as the cap gets fatter.
Then I move on, I dont care what other teams do, anything more than what Carr got is overpaying for the results we get. Time to find our own QB. You've written many times here that we need to draft our QB of the future. I agree we should be trying to do that. You've also said that you wouldn't throw a rookie QB into the fire and ruin him and we'll need a bridge. So, how much draft capital do we intend to spend on this QB this year to ensure we don't end up with the the next Zach Wilson, Blaine Gabbert, Blake Bortles, Jake Locker, Marcus Mariota, Jamis Winston? Of course, our 31st rated defense needs help at every position group, we need at least 1 more interior O-lineman, and will probably have to replace Theilen and Cook. Only 4 picks, no 2nd rounder. How many future firsts are we willing to mortgage to get our guy?
As Rich Eisen mentioned yesterday, there is no such thing as moderately priced QB market. When Geno Smith, year off the trash heap is awarded 105 mil 3 yr. contract, proves the point. Signing a bridge "starter", that might not get you through the year, is still going to cost 30 mil, and will be a major drop off from our current production.
We have a choice of either drafting over and over until we find the unicorn, paying below market value for 5 yrs. or paying market value for a proven entity. I don't know if there's a right answer.
This is a very fair point and it's why it's unfortunate the Vikings put themselves in this situation. So many things they could have done differently over the years to avoid it. Off the top of my head:
1. Rick not neglecting the backup QB position for a decade.
(^by far the most egregious offense)
2. Not beating the Bears offer and trading up for Fields. I really think this would have saved Rick's job, had he done it.
3. Getting better value from our first round trade back last year.
4. Not trading for Hockenson at all (Very good player but what hump did he put us over? Hopefully going forward he will.)
We'll have to see how the draft shakes out but I think Levis is worth trading up for if he slips a little. Bears moved from I think 21 to 12 and it cost them a future first and change. That's a palatable cost if the Vikings think he's the guy. Would I advocate burning multiple firsts to jump into the top 5? That's much scarier. If it works you're a genius. If not KAM is back to stock broking. I don't think the Vikings will take that big of a swing and I don't blame them for not wanting to. But we need something. Hooker might be the move.
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