Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ StickyBun said:
This seems to be the group that will be available for the Vikings when they pick 12th. You happy to stay and select one of these guys?
Devin Lloyd, LB, Utah
Trent McDuffie, CB, Washington
Kyle Hamilton, S, Notre Dame
Nakobe Dean, LB, Georgia
Tyler Linderbaum, OC, Iowa
David Ojabo, EDGE, Michigan
Jordan Davis, DL, Georgia
Andrew Booth, CB, Clemson
Kenyon Green, OG, Texas A&M
Jermaine Johnson, EDGE, Florida State
If Minnesota decides to trade down but still wants a safety, what about this guy?
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/dax-hill/3...3ebbf2d838
I'd shorten the list a bit. Love Lloyd and Dean, but we probably won't be taking LB depth in the 1st. Ojabo is great, but I doubt he goes in the 1st round with an injury that will keep him out all of '22. Remove all OLs... add in Stingley (not sure why he's not on the list) and you're left with....
The reason being I'm seeing more and more mocks with Stingley going top 10. Obviously, if he's around he's probably top of that list for sure.
I think there's an even chance he's on the board at 12. Sure, there are a thousand draft experts this time of year, but if you eliminate the "Walters" of the world and focus on those who typically know what they're talking about (Daniel Jeremiah, Chris Simms, Dane Brugler, Thor Nystrom, Lance Zierlein who does all the NFL.com write ups), every single one of them now has Stingley ranked after McDuffie.
I would bet very good money that Stingley goes in the top 11 picks. Actually, if he gets to #11 I know of 3-4 teams that are eyeing moving ahead of MN for him. So if Stingley ends up in MN its going to have to be via a trade up.
I haven't heard much or anything about the Vikes trading up this year (at least in the 1st). Is there anyone they value enough to trade up for if he were to fall closer?
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
What do we get for trading back? How far do we have to drop?
I still think i grab Hamilton at 12 if he's there unless we can stay in the top 25 and pick up an extra first next year. I dont give up a chance at Hamilton or a couple of those other names for an extra day 2 pick.
I think if the Vikings knew they could still get McDuffie and trade down, they'd do it. But that's the risky part. And like you say, for what and how far down?
I'm reading that teams have real concern about Hamilton's lack of speed.
1 week from the draft... I am hearing a lot of shit being floated about almost every player. I am guessing that Hamilton buzz is coming from teams hoping he will drop to them so they can get a shot at him. kind of like mcduffie's height, and a lot of the other arbitrary stuff that comes out.... for me its this, Hamilton was a stud, even against high level talent, his foot speed wasnt an issue. I grab him and dont look back.
That and the fact that safety is not a premium position. Either way, I'd love to have him.
FWIW, it's not McDuffie's height. 1/4-inch under 5-11 is plenty tall enough. It's his arm length that has everyone in a tizzy. Because there's precisely the diameter of a penny difference between his arm length and Derek Stingley's. What has sports fans so concerned is that Stingley, who has zero arm length concerns, has arms that measure over 30", while McDuffie's arms are under 30". And no that's not a joke.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
What do we get for trading back? How far do we have to drop?
I still think i grab Hamilton at 12 if he's there unless we can stay in the top 25 and pick up an extra first next year. I dont give up a chance at Hamilton or a couple of those other names for an extra day 2 pick.
I think if the Vikings knew they could still get McDuffie and trade down, they'd do it. But that's the risky part. And like you say, for what and how far down?
I'm reading that teams have real concern about Hamilton's lack of speed.
1 week from the draft... I am hearing a lot of shit being floated about almost every player. I am guessing that Hamilton buzz is coming from teams hoping he will drop to them so they can get a shot at him. kind of like mcduffie's height, and a lot of the other arbitrary stuff that comes out.... for me its this, Hamilton was a stud, even against high level talent, his foot speed wasnt an issue. I grab him and dont look back.
That and the fact that safety is not a premium position. Either way, I'd love to have him.
FWIW, it's not McDuffie's height. 1/4-inch under 5-11 is plenty tall enough. It's his arm length that has everyone in a tizzy. Because there's precisely the diameter of a penny difference between his arm length and Derek Stingley's. What has sports fans so concerned is that Stingley, who has zero arm length concerns, has arms that measure over 30", while McDuffie's arms are under 30". And no that's not a joke.
Imagine if they even slightly screwed up on their measurements on any of the prospects. I've measured plenty of cattle with a weight tape before and you get close but it'd be interesting to hear how they get that tape EXACTLY in the same spot on every prospect, year over year.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
What do we get for trading back? How far do we have to drop?
I still think i grab Hamilton at 12 if he's there unless we can stay in the top 25 and pick up an extra first next year. I dont give up a chance at Hamilton or a couple of those other names for an extra day 2 pick.
I think if the Vikings knew they could still get McDuffie and trade down, they'd do it. But that's the risky part. And like you say, for what and how far down?
I'm reading that teams have real concern about Hamilton's lack of speed.
1 week from the draft... I am hearing a lot of shit being floated about almost every player. I am guessing that Hamilton buzz is coming from teams hoping he will drop to them so they can get a shot at him. kind of like mcduffie's height, and a lot of the other arbitrary stuff that comes out.... for me its this, Hamilton was a stud, even against high level talent, his foot speed wasnt an issue. I grab him and dont look back.
That and the fact that safety is not a premium position. Either way, I'd love to have him.
FWIW, it's not McDuffie's height. 1/4-inch under 5-11 is plenty tall enough. It's his arm length that has everyone in a tizzy. Because there's precisely the diameter of a penny difference between his arm length and Derek Stingley's. What has sports fans so concerned is that Stingley, who has zero arm length concerns, has arms that measure over 30", while McDuffie's arms are under 30". And no that's not a joke.
What has sports fans so concerned is that Stingley, who has zero arm length concerns, has arms that measure over 30", while McDuffie's arms are under 30". And no that's not a joke. - Come on, MB, you're leaving out a crucial piece which is the recent history of outside CB's with arms under 30". People here like him, myself included, but there's a reason NFL teams have minimum thresholds on measurables like that. History tends to repeat itself so it's more likely that his a slot guy based on the arm length. He could be a solid outside guy too, but history in the last 6-7 years says otherwise.
I'm sure some teams say "We wont draft a WR that high when he runs a 4.61 forty, but we will draft the player who runs a 4.56 forty". It's not much different when you place them side by side, but not a lot of successful WR's have run 4.6 forty's. It doesn't mean they can't or won't be good, it just says that the team has a threshold and doesn't want that much risk with a pick.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
This seems to be the group that will be available for the Vikings when they pick 12th. You happy to stay and select one of these guys?
Devin Lloyd, LB, Utah
Trent McDuffie, CB, Washington
Kyle Hamilton, S, Notre Dame
Nakobe Dean, LB, Georgia
Tyler Linderbaum, OC, Iowa
David Ojabo, EDGE, Michigan
Jordan Davis, DL, Georgia
Andrew Booth, CB, Clemson
Kenyon Green, OG, Texas A&M
Jermaine Johnson, EDGE, Florida State
If Minnesota decides to trade down but still wants a safety, what about this guy?
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/dax-hill/3...3ebbf2d838
Trade down targets i love:
Lloyd- will be a difference maker
Zion Johnson- Love his build, feet and smarts
These positions are not sexy picks but if we added a 2 and one of those players, Im in
I don't think the Vikings will trade up at all and will let the board shake out and come to them since they are going to have some excellent options with the 12th pick. I would be hugely disappointed if they took McDuffie at 12. If they traded out of the top 20 and ended up with him, fine, but to take him at 12 over some other players that will be available would be a huge mistake IMO. I think it's going to come down to Kyle Hamilton, Garrett Wilson, or Jameson Williams if they sit tight and make a selection at 12. Outside chance at Jordan Davis, but those three I mentioned would be my betting favorites.
Quote: @Hawkvike25 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
What do we get for trading back? How far do we have to drop?
I still think i grab Hamilton at 12 if he's there unless we can stay in the top 25 and pick up an extra first next year. I dont give up a chance at Hamilton or a couple of those other names for an extra day 2 pick.
I think if the Vikings knew they could still get McDuffie and trade down, they'd do it. But that's the risky part. And like you say, for what and how far down?
I'm reading that teams have real concern about Hamilton's lack of speed.
1 week from the draft... I am hearing a lot of shit being floated about almost every player. I am guessing that Hamilton buzz is coming from teams hoping he will drop to them so they can get a shot at him. kind of like mcduffie's height, and a lot of the other arbitrary stuff that comes out.... for me its this, Hamilton was a stud, even against high level talent, his foot speed wasnt an issue. I grab him and dont look back.
That and the fact that safety is not a premium position. Either way, I'd love to have him.
FWIW, it's not McDuffie's height. 1/4-inch under 5-11 is plenty tall enough. It's his arm length that has everyone in a tizzy. Because there's precisely the diameter of a penny difference between his arm length and Derek Stingley's. What has sports fans so concerned is that Stingley, who has zero arm length concerns, has arms that measure over 30", while McDuffie's arms are under 30". And no that's not a joke.
What has sports fans so concerned is that Stingley, who has zero arm length concerns, has arms that measure over 30", while McDuffie's arms are under 30". And no that's not a joke. - Come on, MB, you're leaving out a crucial piece which is the recent history of outside CB's with arms under 30". People here like him, myself included, but there's a reason NFL teams have minimum thresholds on measurables like that. History tends to repeat itself so it's more likely that his a slot guy based on the arm length. He could be a solid outside guy too, but history in the last 6-7 years says otherwise.
I'm sure some teams say "We wont draft a WR that high when he runs a 4.61 forty, but we will draft the player who runs a 4.56 forty". It's not much different when you place them side by side, but not a lot of successful WR's have run 4.6 forty's. It doesn't mean they can't or won't be good, it just says that the team has a threshold and doesn't want that much risk with a pick.
Yes, teams have thresholds. But I'm fairly certain these thresholds are fluid and flexible based on other factors. If a team eliminates player A because of a measurable that falls 1/8 of an inch under a threshold, but is all in on player B who is 1/2 an inch over....they deserve everything they get.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
What do we get for trading back? How far do we have to drop?
I still think i grab Hamilton at 12 if he's there unless we can stay in the top 25 and pick up an extra first next year. I dont give up a chance at Hamilton or a couple of those other names for an extra day 2 pick.
I think if the Vikings knew they could still get McDuffie and trade down, they'd do it. But that's the risky part. And like you say, for what and how far down?
I'm reading that teams have real concern about Hamilton's lack of speed.
1 week from the draft... I am hearing a lot of shit being floated about almost every player. I am guessing that Hamilton buzz is coming from teams hoping he will drop to them so they can get a shot at him. kind of like mcduffie's height, and a lot of the other arbitrary stuff that comes out.... for me its this, Hamilton was a stud, even against high level talent, his foot speed wasnt an issue. I grab him and dont look back.
That and the fact that safety is not a premium position. Either way, I'd love to have him.
FWIW, it's not McDuffie's height. 1/4-inch under 5-11 is plenty tall enough. It's his arm length that has everyone in a tizzy. Because there's precisely the diameter of a penny difference between his arm length and Derek Stingley's. What has sports fans so concerned is that Stingley, who has zero arm length concerns, has arms that measure over 30", while McDuffie's arms are under 30". And no that's not a joke.
IMO 5-11 is pretty small when you look at some of the receivers coming out now, for my tastes I would like to see him have more wingspan or actual height, but I do respect his game, just wish there was more tape of him covering guys that will be playing on sundays, catching passes thrown by guys that also will be pros someday.
as far as Hamilton, the S part is kinda scary for me, that is a premium pick on a position that you can get serviceable results from mid rounders, however when you have a shot at "special" you have to pull the trigger, and as we've seen with generational safeties over the years, they can definitely change the face of a defense in the right situations. Is that Hamilton? I dont know, but IMO its worth the risk.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
What do we get for trading back? How far do we have to drop?
I still think i grab Hamilton at 12 if he's there unless we can stay in the top 25 and pick up an extra first next year. I dont give up a chance at Hamilton or a couple of those other names for an extra day 2 pick.
I think if the Vikings knew they could still get McDuffie and trade down, they'd do it. But that's the risky part. And like you say, for what and how far down?
I'm reading that teams have real concern about Hamilton's lack of speed.
1 week from the draft... I am hearing a lot of shit being floated about almost every player. I am guessing that Hamilton buzz is coming from teams hoping he will drop to them so they can get a shot at him. kind of like mcduffie's height, and a lot of the other arbitrary stuff that comes out.... for me its this, Hamilton was a stud, even against high level talent, his foot speed wasnt an issue. I grab him and dont look back.
That and the fact that safety is not a premium position. Either way, I'd love to have him.
FWIW, it's not McDuffie's height. 1/4-inch under 5-11 is plenty tall enough. It's his arm length that has everyone in a tizzy. Because there's precisely the diameter of a penny difference between his arm length and Derek Stingley's. What has sports fans so concerned is that Stingley, who has zero arm length concerns, has arms that measure over 30", while McDuffie's arms are under 30". And no that's not a joke.
What has sports fans so concerned is that Stingley, who has zero arm length concerns, has arms that measure over 30", while McDuffie's arms are under 30". And no that's not a joke. - Come on, MB, you're leaving out a crucial piece which is the recent history of outside CB's with arms under 30". People here like him, myself included, but there's a reason NFL teams have minimum thresholds on measurables like that. History tends to repeat itself so it's more likely that his a slot guy based on the arm length. He could be a solid outside guy too, but history in the last 6-7 years says otherwise.
I'm sure some teams say "We wont draft a WR that high when he runs a 4.61 forty, but we will draft the player who runs a 4.56 forty". It's not much different when you place them side by side, but not a lot of successful WR's have run 4.6 forty's. It doesn't mean they can't or won't be good, it just says that the team has a threshold and doesn't want that much risk with a pick.
Yes, teams have thresholds. But I'm fairly certain these thresholds are fluid and flexible based on other factors. If a team eliminates player A because of a measurable that falls 1/8 of an inch under a threshold, but is all in on player B who is 1/2 an inch over....they deserve everything they get.
Fair enough that they do get everything they get, but there are certain measurables that are emphasized more than others whether we like it or not. Short arms for OL is a big thing too as we have had decades of data to show who has been successful and who hasn't. It's not always the end all be all, but there's a reason the numbers are identified
Quote: @Hawkvike25 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
What do we get for trading back? How far do we have to drop?
I still think i grab Hamilton at 12 if he's there unless we can stay in the top 25 and pick up an extra first next year. I dont give up a chance at Hamilton or a couple of those other names for an extra day 2 pick.
I think if the Vikings knew they could still get McDuffie and trade down, they'd do it. But that's the risky part. And like you say, for what and how far down?
I'm reading that teams have real concern about Hamilton's lack of speed.
1 week from the draft... I am hearing a lot of shit being floated about almost every player. I am guessing that Hamilton buzz is coming from teams hoping he will drop to them so they can get a shot at him. kind of like mcduffie's height, and a lot of the other arbitrary stuff that comes out.... for me its this, Hamilton was a stud, even against high level talent, his foot speed wasnt an issue. I grab him and dont look back.
That and the fact that safety is not a premium position. Either way, I'd love to have him.
FWIW, it's not McDuffie's height. 1/4-inch under 5-11 is plenty tall enough. It's his arm length that has everyone in a tizzy. Because there's precisely the diameter of a penny difference between his arm length and Derek Stingley's. What has sports fans so concerned is that Stingley, who has zero arm length concerns, has arms that measure over 30", while McDuffie's arms are under 30". And no that's not a joke.
What has sports fans so concerned is that Stingley, who has zero arm length concerns, has arms that measure over 30", while McDuffie's arms are under 30". And no that's not a joke. - Come on, MB, you're leaving out a crucial piece which is the recent history of outside CB's with arms under 30". People here like him, myself included, but there's a reason NFL teams have minimum thresholds on measurables like that. History tends to repeat itself so it's more likely that his a slot guy based on the arm length. He could be a solid outside guy too, but history in the last 6-7 years says otherwise.
I'm sure some teams say "We wont draft a WR that high when he runs a 4.61 forty, but we will draft the player who runs a 4.56 forty". It's not much different when you place them side by side, but not a lot of successful WR's have run 4.6 forty's. It doesn't mean they can't or won't be good, it just says that the team has a threshold and doesn't want that much risk with a pick.
One more thing. Speed is a whole different thing. Watch a simulcast of a 4.4 guy and a 4.6 guy. Sure, we're only talking about 2/10ths of a second difference here, but over 40 yards that results in about 4 yards of difference give or take. If you're a corner who runs 4.6 and you're covering a 4.4 receiver and he runs a 40 yard go, he's going to beat you by about 4 yards. 4 yards is a significant number. 3/4 of inch in arm length—which rarely even comes into play, and even when it does, like press and maybe 50/50 balls, both of which are mitigated and blurred by pad level and vertical jump—is just not.
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