Quote: @greediron said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
Openly complaining about Kirk during the season in which he (Zimmer) made numerous head scratching coaching decisions each game sure is something. Kirk isn't perfect but my god, have a look in the mirror Zimmer. I'll bet if you have a conversation with him today he would probably try to justify having the secondary so far off the Detroit receivers in the last drive. So glad that dbag is gone.
Pretty sure Patrick Peterson spoke on that play, said that Dantzler was not playing that like they practiced. But I am sure that isn't why he was in Zim's doghouse, probably because Zimmer wanted him to play poorly and he wouldn't.
Blaming the coach for players not playing the position seems to be a meme around here. After Zimmer lost Rhodes, Waynes and Mac, his defense suffered immensely. Hard to form a good solid back end with a bunch of rookies and castoffs.
Hmm, maybe that is why he didn't want to spend $30 mil on Cousins.
With all due respect, Zim would not have won with Rhodes, Waynes and Mac (and he spent a lot of draft capital on DBs). Under Zim, Rhodes raised his game to new heights but then came crashing down the last two seasons under Zimmer. Those last two years included 10 million dollar salaries. Wayne was good but made 20 million in 2020 (5 mill base and 15 mill signing bonus) and over 10 million last year and, because of injuries, hardly touched the field during those 2 seasons. And we all saw Mac this past season. I am not a big fan of Cousins but if you are talking about spending 30 million on Cousins or 30 million on Waynes and Rhodes (as Rhodes played his last 2 seasons) in 2020, well, the choice is fairly clear.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
Openly complaining about Kirk during the season in which he (Zimmer) made numerous head scratching coaching decisions each game sure is something. Kirk isn't perfect but my god, have a look in the mirror Zimmer. I'll bet if you have a conversation with him today he would probably try to justify having the secondary so far off the Detroit receivers in the last drive. So glad that dbag is gone.
Pretty sure Patrick Peterson spoke on that play, said that Dantzler was not playing that like they practiced. But I am sure that isn't why he was in Zim's doghouse, probably because Zimmer wanted him to play poorly and he wouldn't.
Blaming the coach for players not playing the position seems to be a meme around here. After Zimmer lost Rhodes, Waynes and Mac, his defense suffered immensely. Hard to form a good solid back end with a bunch of rookies and castoffs.
Hmm, maybe that is why he didn't want to spend $30 mil on Cousins.
Going into 2021, the Vikings had the 9th most spent on D. Cousins contract wasn't the issue.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/3103...needs-save
Quote: @Hawkvike25 said:
@ greediron said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
Openly complaining about Kirk during the season in which he (Zimmer) made numerous head scratching coaching decisions each game sure is something. Kirk isn't perfect but my god, have a look in the mirror Zimmer. I'll bet if you have a conversation with him today he would probably try to justify having the secondary so far off the Detroit receivers in the last drive. So glad that dbag is gone.
Pretty sure Patrick Peterson spoke on that play, said that Dantzler was not playing that like they practiced. But I am sure that isn't why he was in Zim's doghouse, probably because Zimmer wanted him to play poorly and he wouldn't.
Blaming the coach for players not playing the position seems to be a meme around here. After Zimmer lost Rhodes, Waynes and Mac, his defense suffered immensely. Hard to form a good solid back end with a bunch of rookies and castoffs.
Hmm, maybe that is why he didn't want to spend $30 mil on Cousins.
I'm not just referring to the last play. I'm noting the entire drive our guys were at least 5 yards back from their receivers and we didnt blitz once. Dantzler shouldnt have been behind the guy but why were all guys at the end zone line? Pretty dumb call.
I mentioned a couple weeks ago that all corners drafted by Zimmer in the first 3/4 rounds never signed their second contract with the Vikings. I highly doubt the sole reason for that is because Kirk made $30MM. We had a lot of other bad contracts during that time that were signed (Barr & Tagging Harris are two examples).
He didn't want Kirk, we know that. That's not his job though, that was Rick's. The HC isn't supposed to hold a grudge because you didn't want to pay high dollar for the best QB option that offseason. Vikes weren't going to win with Case, Teddy, or a rookie. Again, he needs to look in the mirror.
I agree to your last line, that was his failure and is pretty obvious right now.
But not being able to resign the corners he drafted because they all signed big contracts elsewhere isn't a point of failing. He made Rhodes a star, albeit a shaky, unstable one.
My point was, when Zimmer had good dbs, his defense was always near the top. It plummeted in the last 2 years when he didn't have good dbs.
Quote: @VikingOracle said:
@ greediron said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
Openly complaining about Kirk during the season in which he (Zimmer) made numerous head scratching coaching decisions each game sure is something. Kirk isn't perfect but my god, have a look in the mirror Zimmer. I'll bet if you have a conversation with him today he would probably try to justify having the secondary so far off the Detroit receivers in the last drive. So glad that dbag is gone.
Pretty sure Patrick Peterson spoke on that play, said that Dantzler was not playing that like they practiced. But I am sure that isn't why he was in Zim's doghouse, probably because Zimmer wanted him to play poorly and he wouldn't.
Blaming the coach for players not playing the position seems to be a meme around here. After Zimmer lost Rhodes, Waynes and Mac, his defense suffered immensely. Hard to form a good solid back end with a bunch of rookies and castoffs.
Hmm, maybe that is why he didn't want to spend $30 mil on Cousins.
With all due respect, Zim would not have won with Rhodes, Waynes and Mac (and he spent a lot of draft capital on DBs). Under Zim, Rhodes raised his game to new heights but then came crashing down the last two seasons under Zimmer. Those last two years included 10 million dollar salaries. Wayne was good but made 20 million in 2020 (5 mill base and 15 mill signing bonus) and over 10 million last year and, because of injuries, hardly touched the field during those 2 seasons. And we all saw Mac this past season. I am not a big fan of Cousins but if you are talking about spending 30 million on Cousins or 30 million on Waynes and Rhodes (as Rhodes played his last 2 seasons) in 2020, well, the choice is fairly clear.
I like cousins and am not saying he wasn't worth the money.
Rhodes crashed because he is rather flakey. BRob's lockerroom bits showed us what everyone knew about Planet Xe. Has the physical skills, but maybe got caught up in his own stardom. Waynes was a solid DB that many here didn't like, but he got paid by another team. Zim always had a top D when he had the backend players.
Quote: @JustinTime18™ said:
@ greediron said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
Openly complaining about Kirk during the season in which he (Zimmer) made numerous head scratching coaching decisions each game sure is something. Kirk isn't perfect but my god, have a look in the mirror Zimmer. I'll bet if you have a conversation with him today he would probably try to justify having the secondary so far off the Detroit receivers in the last drive. So glad that dbag is gone.
Pretty sure Patrick Peterson spoke on that play, said that Dantzler was not playing that like they practiced. But I am sure that isn't why he was in Zim's doghouse, probably because Zimmer wanted him to play poorly and he wouldn't.
Blaming the coach for players not playing the position seems to be a meme around here. After Zimmer lost Rhodes, Waynes and Mac, his defense suffered immensely. Hard to form a good solid back end with a bunch of rookies and castoffs.
Hmm, maybe that is why he didn't want to spend $30 mil on Cousins.
Going into 2021, the Vikings had the 9th most spent on D. Cousins contract wasn't the issue.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/3103...needs-save
So despite all the noise of overpaying, we were average on defensive spending.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ greediron said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
Openly complaining about Kirk during the season in which he (Zimmer) made numerous head scratching coaching decisions each game sure is something. Kirk isn't perfect but my god, have a look in the mirror Zimmer. I'll bet if you have a conversation with him today he would probably try to justify having the secondary so far off the Detroit receivers in the last drive. So glad that dbag is gone.
Pretty sure Patrick Peterson spoke on that play, said that Dantzler was not playing that like they practiced. But I am sure that isn't why he was in Zim's doghouse, probably because Zimmer wanted him to play poorly and he wouldn't.
Blaming the coach for players not playing the position seems to be a meme around here. After Zimmer lost Rhodes, Waynes and Mac, his defense suffered immensely. Hard to form a good solid back end with a bunch of rookies and castoffs.
Hmm, maybe that is why he didn't want to spend $30 mil on Cousins.
I'm not just referring to the last play. I'm noting the entire drive our guys were at least 5 yards back from their receivers and we didnt blitz once. Dantzler shouldnt have been behind the guy but why were all guys at the end zone line? Pretty dumb call.
I mentioned a couple weeks ago that all corners drafted by Zimmer in the first 3/4 rounds never signed their second contract with the Vikings. I highly doubt the sole reason for that is because Kirk made $30MM. We had a lot of other bad contracts during that time that were signed (Barr & Tagging Harris are two examples).
He didn't want Kirk, we know that. That's not his job though, that was Rick's. The HC isn't supposed to hold a grudge because you didn't want to pay high dollar for the best QB option that offseason. Vikes weren't going to win with Case, Teddy, or a rookie. Again, he needs to look in the mirror.
I agree to your last line, that was his failure and is pretty obvious right now.
But not being able to resign the corners he drafted because they all signed big contracts elsewhere isn't a point of failing. He made Rhodes a star, albeit a shaky, unstable one.
My point was, when Zimmer had good dbs, his defense was always near the top. It plummeted in the last 2 years when he didn't have good dbs.
Average to solid DBs but we could stop the run. The 2017 defense was awesome because they were near the top in rushing defense. Since that time the rush defense has been on a steady decline and we all know how it went this year. Rhodes had a few really good seasons, but I never thought Waynes was that great, neither was Mack. Perhaps Zim was a bad CB evaluator?
Quote: @Hawkvike25 said:
@ greediron said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ greediron said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
Openly complaining about Kirk during the season in which he (Zimmer) made numerous head scratching coaching decisions each game sure is something. Kirk isn't perfect but my god, have a look in the mirror Zimmer. I'll bet if you have a conversation with him today he would probably try to justify having the secondary so far off the Detroit receivers in the last drive. So glad that dbag is gone.
Pretty sure Patrick Peterson spoke on that play, said that Dantzler was not playing that like they practiced. But I am sure that isn't why he was in Zim's doghouse, probably because Zimmer wanted him to play poorly and he wouldn't.
Blaming the coach for players not playing the position seems to be a meme around here. After Zimmer lost Rhodes, Waynes and Mac, his defense suffered immensely. Hard to form a good solid back end with a bunch of rookies and castoffs.
Hmm, maybe that is why he didn't want to spend $30 mil on Cousins.
I'm not just referring to the last play. I'm noting the entire drive our guys were at least 5 yards back from their receivers and we didnt blitz once. Dantzler shouldnt have been behind the guy but why were all guys at the end zone line? Pretty dumb call.
I mentioned a couple weeks ago that all corners drafted by Zimmer in the first 3/4 rounds never signed their second contract with the Vikings. I highly doubt the sole reason for that is because Kirk made $30MM. We had a lot of other bad contracts during that time that were signed (Barr & Tagging Harris are two examples).
He didn't want Kirk, we know that. That's not his job though, that was Rick's. The HC isn't supposed to hold a grudge because you didn't want to pay high dollar for the best QB option that offseason. Vikes weren't going to win with Case, Teddy, or a rookie. Again, he needs to look in the mirror.
I agree to your last line, that was his failure and is pretty obvious right now.
But not being able to resign the corners he drafted because they all signed big contracts elsewhere isn't a point of failing. He made Rhodes a star, albeit a shaky, unstable one.
My point was, when Zimmer had good dbs, his defense was always near the top. It plummeted in the last 2 years when he didn't have good dbs.
Average to solid DBs but we could stop the run. The 2017 defense was awesome because they were near the top in rushing defense. Since that time the rush defense has been on a steady decline and we all know how it went this year. Rhodes had a few really good seasons, but I never thought Waynes was that great, neither was Mack. Perhaps Zim was a bad CB evaluator?
Well IMO he was a defensive guru, but needed good DBs as does any good defensive coordinator. The run defense declined with Joseph getting hurt and his decline, but these past two seasons have been largely because our DBs were raw and not good.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ greediron said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ greediron said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
Openly complaining about Kirk during the season in which he (Zimmer) made numerous head scratching coaching decisions each game sure is something. Kirk isn't perfect but my god, have a look in the mirror Zimmer. I'll bet if you have a conversation with him today he would probably try to justify having the secondary so far off the Detroit receivers in the last drive. So glad that dbag is gone.
Pretty sure Patrick Peterson spoke on that play, said that Dantzler was not playing that like they practiced. But I am sure that isn't why he was in Zim's doghouse, probably because Zimmer wanted him to play poorly and he wouldn't.
Blaming the coach for players not playing the position seems to be a meme around here. After Zimmer lost Rhodes, Waynes and Mac, his defense suffered immensely. Hard to form a good solid back end with a bunch of rookies and castoffs.
Hmm, maybe that is why he didn't want to spend $30 mil on Cousins.
I'm not just referring to the last play. I'm noting the entire drive our guys were at least 5 yards back from their receivers and we didnt blitz once. Dantzler shouldnt have been behind the guy but why were all guys at the end zone line? Pretty dumb call.
I mentioned a couple weeks ago that all corners drafted by Zimmer in the first 3/4 rounds never signed their second contract with the Vikings. I highly doubt the sole reason for that is because Kirk made $30MM. We had a lot of other bad contracts during that time that were signed (Barr & Tagging Harris are two examples).
He didn't want Kirk, we know that. That's not his job though, that was Rick's. The HC isn't supposed to hold a grudge because you didn't want to pay high dollar for the best QB option that offseason. Vikes weren't going to win with Case, Teddy, or a rookie. Again, he needs to look in the mirror.
I agree to your last line, that was his failure and is pretty obvious right now.
But not being able to resign the corners he drafted because they all signed big contracts elsewhere isn't a point of failing. He made Rhodes a star, albeit a shaky, unstable one.
My point was, when Zimmer had good dbs, his defense was always near the top. It plummeted in the last 2 years when he didn't have good dbs.
Average to solid DBs but we could stop the run. The 2017 defense was awesome because they were near the top in rushing defense. Since that time the rush defense has been on a steady decline and we all know how it went this year. Rhodes had a few really good seasons, but I never thought Waynes was that great, neither was Mack. Perhaps Zim was a bad CB evaluator?
Well IMO he was a defensive guru, but needed good DBs as does any good defensive coordinator. The run defense declined with Joseph getting hurt and his decline, but these past two seasons have been largely because our DBs were raw and not good.
He was at one point in time, but his inability to adjust was his downfall. Raw DBs hurt in 2020 but you can't say this season had raw DB's as PP and Breelaund just werent that good. Pierce taking off 2020 and then being hurt for half of 2021 really had an impact on the run D. Also, Xavier Woods was the only defensive starter to start and play all 17 games. Others to play all 17 games on defense were Wonnum, Watts, Richardson, and Troy Dye. I've been a Zimmer critic quite a bit the last two years, but not many coaches are going to have a lot of success on defense with that type of injury luck.
Things you don’t see in this thread: anyone saying Zimmer’s assessment of Cousins was wrong.
Quote: @Hawkvike25 said:
@ greediron said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ greediron said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ greediron said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
Openly complaining about Kirk during the season in which he (Zimmer) made numerous head scratching coaching decisions each game sure is something. Kirk isn't perfect but my god, have a look in the mirror Zimmer. I'll bet if you have a conversation with him today he would probably try to justify having the secondary so far off the Detroit receivers in the last drive. So glad that dbag is gone.
Pretty sure Patrick Peterson spoke on that play, said that Dantzler was not playing that like they practiced. But I am sure that isn't why he was in Zim's doghouse, probably because Zimmer wanted him to play poorly and he wouldn't.
Blaming the coach for players not playing the position seems to be a meme around here. After Zimmer lost Rhodes, Waynes and Mac, his defense suffered immensely. Hard to form a good solid back end with a bunch of rookies and castoffs.
Hmm, maybe that is why he didn't want to spend $30 mil on Cousins.
I'm not just referring to the last play. I'm noting the entire drive our guys were at least 5 yards back from their receivers and we didnt blitz once. Dantzler shouldnt have been behind the guy but why were all guys at the end zone line? Pretty dumb call.
I mentioned a couple weeks ago that all corners drafted by Zimmer in the first 3/4 rounds never signed their second contract with the Vikings. I highly doubt the sole reason for that is because Kirk made $30MM. We had a lot of other bad contracts during that time that were signed (Barr & Tagging Harris are two examples).
He didn't want Kirk, we know that. That's not his job though, that was Rick's. The HC isn't supposed to hold a grudge because you didn't want to pay high dollar for the best QB option that offseason. Vikes weren't going to win with Case, Teddy, or a rookie. Again, he needs to look in the mirror.
I agree to your last line, that was his failure and is pretty obvious right now.
But not being able to resign the corners he drafted because they all signed big contracts elsewhere isn't a point of failing. He made Rhodes a star, albeit a shaky, unstable one.
My point was, when Zimmer had good dbs, his defense was always near the top. It plummeted in the last 2 years when he didn't have good dbs.
Average to solid DBs but we could stop the run. The 2017 defense was awesome because they were near the top in rushing defense. Since that time the rush defense has been on a steady decline and we all know how it went this year. Rhodes had a few really good seasons, but I never thought Waynes was that great, neither was Mack. Perhaps Zim was a bad CB evaluator?
Well IMO he was a defensive guru, but needed good DBs as does any good defensive coordinator. The run defense declined with Joseph getting hurt and his decline, but these past two seasons have been largely because our DBs were raw and not good.
He was at one point in time, but his inability to adjust was his downfall. Raw DBs hurt in 2020 but you can't say this season had raw DB's as PP and Breelaund just werent that good. Pierce taking off 2020 and then being hurt for half of 2021 really had an impact on the run D. Also, Xavier Woods was the only defensive starter to start and play all 17 games. Others to play all 17 games on defense were Wonnum, Watts, Richardson, and Troy Dye. I've been a Zimmer critic quite a bit the last two years, but not many coaches are going to have a lot of success on defense with that type of injury luck.
raw and not good. That was inclusive of the experienced ones. PP was ok, but Breeland sucked. Zimmer didn't have experienced DBs that knew his system.
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