YAASSS! Best one yet. In the immortal words of Yul Brynner, so let it written; so let it be done.
I'm willing to take the gamble on Phillips. Potential payoff is just too great.
Quote: @"minny65" said:
I'm tiptoeing around this draft because it is Guru and I have zero team insight:
But I really dislike this draft.
1 - We "need" to get one of the Top 3 OT's - Sewell, Slater or Darrisaw. That has to happen in the first round either at 14 or a slight move up. If all 3 are gone I really advocate for a drop down and pick up a 2nd rounder and still have a shot at AVT in the 18-28 slot. I would not draft Phillips for us at this time. A team in full rebuild and multiple early picks should take the chance. This draft is pretty deep at DE and we can find someone in round 2 (move up) or round 3. I like Weaver from Pitt as a candidate.
Pick (61) 2nd pick is, of course, fully dependent on the first pick. If we got either of the Big 3 T's or fell back and got AVT, I would do the proposed move up for Levi -3T from Washington or a falling player at a position of need like Weaver. I would not move up for a Guard in this draft because I think the 3rd pick(81) - Christensen - is a Guard and has the athleticism that Cleveland had coming out. I also like Eichenberg (ND) as a Guard. I think we could get either one of them at 90.
Pick(81) Is it possible Levi or Weaver are still there? Probably not, so in my move up scenario I go Levi because because the depth at DE and the shallowness of IDL. Assume Weaver is gone then I would be targeting Dayo or Sample. Both have the size to do some interior rushing for us in the BRob mold to compliment Hunter's speed rush.
Pick (90) Christensen or Eichenberg as Guard's. With our scheme we like the athleticism of former Tackles playing Guard and both fit our mold.
Bottom line for me (it's all about me) is that we need to come away with a TOP 3 Tackles and a projected Guard from the tackle list. If we are able to get a guy like Weaver or Levi then that would be an awesome draft for me even before getting in to the late day picks. I also love Cisco at Safety but he likely gone before the 3rd round so no real shot at him and not a move up candidate because that need is not as great.
Oh well, pumped for tonight!
So I will let you in on my thinking when it comes to the 3 top OTs. It is all going to come down to where the first of Slater/Sewell come off the board. If it is #5 then its unlikely either are going to be in realistic striking distance to move up. If one of the two get to pick #9/10 then there is a chance. The Giants (who never trade back) at #11 may end up being their best trade candidate since neither the Eagles or Chargers are likely taking one of the Giants targets. So move back for a 4th and change while still getting the same player? You could probably sell them on that. That is a worthwhile move for the Vikings at the same time. But like I said, will either be there at #11?
Darrisaw is a more interesting one. If Darrisaw, Phillips, and AVT are all there at #14 I think they'll move back (if they can) and just take the last of the 3 that are remaining on the board. In this case I take Phillips for two reasons.
1. You can net more ammo to get into the 2nd round
2. The EDGE talent drops off faster than the OT/OGs. Give me the chance at a defensive game changer than an OT who won't win but won't lose you games. Sewell and Slater are a different story. They can change the game.
Quote: @"MaroonBells" said:
YAASSS! Best one yet. In the immortal words of Yul Brynner, so let it written; so let it be done.
I'm willing to take the gamble on Phillips. Potential payoff is just too great.
Exactly. Give me solid O-lineman but the potential game changer at EDGE. With Hunter across from him and continued health (he's been healthy since UCLA) Phillips would be the odds on favorite for NFL defensive rookie of the year.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
YAASSS! Best one yet. In the immortal words of Yul Brynner, so let it written; so let it be done.
I'm willing to take the gamble on Phillips. Potential payoff is just too great.
Exactly. Give me solid O-lineman but the potential game changer at EDGE. With Hunter across from him and continued health (he's been healthy since UCLA) Phillips would be the odds on favorite for NFL defensive rookie of the year.
I don't think people understand the impact of having Phillips added to this DL. There is no reason why this can't be the most effective defensive line in football. Pierce and Tomlinson are going to be beasts against the run, tilting the odds in favor of passing plays which is great because with strong edges you can get pressure without blitzing. The value you can get out of having a stud rookie edge rusher with these 3 on this defense is much higher in value than a very good OT. You can get solid enough OT play from later int the draft, FA, or internally, which Geoff addresses in rounds 2 and 3.
Plus I believe there is talent on this OL that can be NFL average (which is what we need) if given a chance aka Hinton and Udoh. I know it's risky but a OL of: ONeill-Davis/Cole/Hinton-Bradberry-Cleveland-Udoh/Hill/Christensen has ability to be good, good enough to keep a top 5 offense.
NFL games are so close, and usually come down to a handful of plays per game. With Hunter and an effective edge counterpart, and an effective run D, you are going to win many games. A dominate DL is a game changer, not including the blitz packages that will be 2x as effective.
Nothing else, swap out last year's DL for this year's and we win 3-4 more games (Dal, Tenn, Sea, Chicago). 4 more wins and a win already in Lamblow why couldn't we be contenders?
Be smart, get an edge rusher in the first and if you can do it by grabbing additional picks, even better.
Can we get Phillips the Kelso helmet?
One last thing...
Thx for putting these together Geoff (and all the other mock pundits we've seen)
I feel a lot smarter going into draft night now.
Quote: @"Skodin" said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
YAASSS! Best one yet. In the immortal words of Yul Brynner, so let it written; so let it be done.
I'm willing to take the gamble on Phillips. Potential payoff is just too great.
Exactly. Give me solid O-lineman but the potential game changer at EDGE. With Hunter across from him and continued health (he's been healthy since UCLA) Phillips would be the odds on favorite for NFL defensive rookie of the year.
I don't think people understand the impact of having Phillips added to this DL. There is no reason why this can't be the most effective defensive line in football. Pierce and Tomlinson are going to be beasts against the run, tilting the odds in favor of passing plays which is great because with strong edges you can get pressure without blitzing. The value you can get out of having a stud rookie edge rusher with these 3 on this defense is much higher in value than a very good OT. You can get solid enough OT play from later int the draft, FA, or internally, which Geoff addresses in rounds 2 and 3.
Plus I believe there is talent on this OL that can be NFL average (which is what we need) if given a chance aka Hinton and Udoh. I know it's risky but a OL of: ONeill-Davis/Cole/Hinton-Bradberry-Cleveland-Udoh/Hill/Christensen has ability to be good, good enough to keep a top 5 offense.
NFL games are so close, and usually come down to a handful of plays per game. With Hunter and an effective edge counterpart, and an effective run D, you are going to win many games. A dominate DL is a game changer, not including the blitz packages that will be 2x as effective.
Nothing else, swap out last year's DL for this year's and we win 3-4 more games (Dal, Tenn, Sea, Chicago). 4 more wins and a win already in Lamblow why couldn't we be contenders?
Be smart, get an edge rusher in the first and if you can do it by grabbing additional picks, even better.
Phillips scares me and not addressing the OL at 14 also scares me, but you make some great points.
For me I'm just so tired of hearing how great Kirk could be if only our OL was good. And now on paper our OL looks worse than last year, without factoring some magic beans jump from Udoh and quality play from a guy off Arizona's scrap heap.
So maybe it's out of frustration, maybe it's out of fear... but if it's not QB than I want OL in the first.
That said, you did kind of sell me on an awesome D-Line. It was great a few years ago when we'd be down early to a team like the Panthers and the D would generate turnovers or even scores to get us back into it. I do miss those days. Hmmm
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@"minny65" said:
I'm tiptoeing around this draft because it is Guru and I have zero team insight:
But I really dislike this draft.
1 - We "need" to get one of the Top 3 OT's - Sewell, Slater or Darrisaw. That has to happen in the first round either at 14 or a slight move up. If all 3 are gone I really advocate for a drop down and pick up a 2nd rounder and still have a shot at AVT in the 18-28 slot. I would not draft Phillips for us at this time. A team in full rebuild and multiple early picks should take the chance. This draft is pretty deep at DE and we can find someone in round 2 (move up) or round 3. I like Weaver from Pitt as a candidate.
Pick (61) 2nd pick is, of course, fully dependent on the first pick. If we got either of the Big 3 T's or fell back and got AVT, I would do the proposed move up for Levi -3T from Washington or a falling player at a position of need like Weaver. I would not move up for a Guard in this draft because I think the 3rd pick(81) - Christensen - is a Guard and has the athleticism that Cleveland had coming out. I also like Eichenberg (ND) as a Guard. I think we could get either one of them at 90.
Pick(81) Is it possible Levi or Weaver are still there? Probably not, so in my move up scenario I go Levi because because the depth at DE and the shallowness of IDL. Assume Weaver is gone then I would be targeting Dayo or Sample. Both have the size to do some interior rushing for us in the BRob mold to compliment Hunter's speed rush.
Pick (90) Christensen or Eichenberg as Guard's. With our scheme we like the athleticism of former Tackles playing Guard and both fit our mold.
Bottom line for me (it's all about me) is that we need to come away with a TOP 3 Tackles and a projected Guard from the tackle list. If we are able to get a guy like Weaver or Levi then that would be an awesome draft for me even before getting in to the late day picks. I also love Cisco at Safety but he likely gone before the 3rd round so no real shot at him and not a move up candidate because that need is not as great.
Oh well, pumped for tonight!
So I will let you in on my thinking when it comes to the 3 top OTs. It is all going to come down to where the first of Slater/Sewell come off the board. If it is #5 then its unlikely either are going to be in realistic striking distance to move up. If one of the two get to pick #9/10 then there is a chance. The Giants (who never trade back) at #11 may end up being their best trade candidate since neither the Eagles or Chargers are likely taking one of the Giants targets. So move back for a 4th and change while still getting the same player? You could probably sell them on that. That is a worthwhile move for the Vikings at the same time. But like I said, will either be there at #11?
Darrisaw is a more interesting one. If Darrisaw, Phillips, and AVT are all there at #14 I think they'll move back (if they can) and just take the last of the 3 that are remaining on the board. In this case I take Phillips for two reasons.
1. You can net more ammo to get into the 2nd round
2. The EDGE talent drops off faster than the OT/OGs. Give me the chance at a defensive game changer than an OT who won't win but won't lose you games. Sewell and Slater are a different story. They can change the game.
Thanks for the insight as always.
But under your above scenario I would take Darrisaw at 14. I think he is a stud LT. I think Sewell is the best and Slater second but not a wide margin from Slater vs Darrisaw as LT's. I would move down to that 18 and take the chance that AVT is there and pick up additional pick.
I would not take the chance on Phillips for this team right now. We are not a DE away from a SB IMO. We are a LT and Guard away - IMO. We loaded up on D in free agency and assume Hunter is back 95%. Concussions are no joke and players and the league (liability) are very concerned about CTE with several former players every year having brain damage. These kids are not old school head knockers and Phillips will be smart to get out if he has his bell rung a few more times. That all said, and we all say this every draft, no player has zero bust factor including Phillips without concussion issues. He is the best DE in this class on paper no doubt.
Also every year we (most of us) have been crying to fix the OL and every year we seem to go with best Defensive player available and expect to find OL gems we can develop later which we have proven we can not! I like Darrisaw much better then the #4 LT pick by the Giants last year (Jones from Georgia). It hard to find or portray a OL as a game changer vs skill players which to me include DE's. We need to address our decade long piss poor OL this draft and it is a very good crop.
I will admit ahead of time that if we pass on any of the Big 3 OL I am going to be very disappointed from the get-go.
Quote: @"Skodin" said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
YAASSS! Best one yet. In the immortal words of Yul Brynner, so let it written; so let it be done.
I'm willing to take the gamble on Phillips. Potential payoff is just too great.
Exactly. Give me solid O-lineman but the potential game changer at EDGE. With Hunter across from him and continued health (he's been healthy since UCLA) Phillips would be the odds on favorite for NFL defensive rookie of the year.
I don't think people understand the impact of having Phillips added to this DL. There is no reason why this can't be the most effective defensive line in football. Pierce and Tomlinson are going to be beasts against the run, tilting the odds in favor of passing plays which is great because with strong edges you can get pressure without blitzing. The value you can get out of having a stud rookie edge rusher with these 3 on this defense is much higher in value than a very good OT. You can get solid enough OT play from later int the draft, FA, or internally, which Geoff addresses in rounds 2 and 3.
Plus I believe there is talent on this OL that can be NFL average (which is what we need) if given a chance aka Hinton and Udoh. I know it's risky but a OL of: ONeill-Davis/Cole/Hinton-Bradberry-Cleveland-Udoh/Hill/Christensen has ability to be good, good enough to keep a top 5 offense.
NFL games are so close, and usually come down to a handful of plays per game. With Hunter and an effective edge counterpart, and an effective run D, you are going to win many games. A dominate DL is a game changer, not including the blitz packages that will be 2x as effective.
Nothing else, swap out last year's DL for this year's and we win 3-4 more games (Dal, Tenn, Sea, Chicago). 4 more wins and a win already in Lamblow why couldn't we be contenders?
Be smart, get an edge rusher in the first and if you can do it by grabbing additional picks, even better.
I like that reasoning. Build the lines. We have ignored too long.
We need a tackle, but isn't that why we drafted Cleveland?
Quote: @"greediron" said:
@"Skodin" said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
YAASSS! Best one yet. In the immortal words of Yul Brynner, so let it written; so let it be done.
I'm willing to take the gamble on Phillips. Potential payoff is just too great.
Exactly. Give me solid O-lineman but the potential game changer at EDGE. With Hunter across from him and continued health (he's been healthy since UCLA) Phillips would be the odds on favorite for NFL defensive rookie of the year.
I don't think people understand the impact of having Phillips added to this DL. There is no reason why this can't be the most effective defensive line in football. Pierce and Tomlinson are going to be beasts against the run, tilting the odds in favor of passing plays which is great because with strong edges you can get pressure without blitzing. The value you can get out of having a stud rookie edge rusher with these 3 on this defense is much higher in value than a very good OT. You can get solid enough OT play from later int the draft, FA, or internally, which Geoff addresses in rounds 2 and 3.
Plus I believe there is talent on this OL that can be NFL average (which is what we need) if given a chance aka Hinton and Udoh. I know it's risky but a OL of: ONeill-Davis/Cole/Hinton-Bradberry-Cleveland-Udoh/Hill/Christensen has ability to be good, good enough to keep a top 5 offense.
NFL games are so close, and usually come down to a handful of plays per game. With Hunter and an effective edge counterpart, and an effective run D, you are going to win many games. A dominate DL is a game changer, not including the blitz packages that will be 2x as effective.
Nothing else, swap out last year's DL for this year's and we win 3-4 more games (Dal, Tenn, Sea, Chicago). 4 more wins and a win already in Lamblow why couldn't we be contenders?
Be smart, get an edge rusher in the first and if you can do it by grabbing additional picks, even better.
I like that reasoning. Build the lines. We have ignored too long.
We need a tackle, but isn't that why we drafted Cleveland?
I don't know how much Cleveland was drafted to specifically play tackle. He was drafted since regardless of position his physical attributes were on the high-end of the spectrum for a wide zone blocking team. How that serves the Vikings well is that I think he can probably play 4 different positions today LT/LG, RG/RT. That flexibility you got last year allows you added flexibility this year since you're not looking for a specific player or position. Rather you are just looking for the best lineman possible.
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