Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
Why would he restructure? Didn't he just sign for less to stay with the Vikings?
and his play showed it....
I used to defend him as the straw that stirred Zimmers drink, but I just cant any more. He is a good not great coverage guy, he is weak in run support in the middle, decent on the edge, and a disappointment as a pass rusher in terms of getting off blocks.
I am done with Barr and wish the team could be as well, but IIRC his contract makes it hard to force anything except maybe a trade.
Yup, its time to let Barr walk. He's hardly the player we're paying him to be.
Is Barr worth $15M? No. But the cap his is based on how the Vikings structured the contract. He is worth close to the $12.3M is he actually owed in 2021. People seem to think that Barr is supposed to be Vonn Miller which isn't his role at all. Nobody notices it but Barr is probably the Vikings best run defender and dictates how the opposing offense sets their protections. Zimmer loves Barr because Barr forces offenses to do what Zimmer wants them to do. That is worth a lot of money.
This is Barr's camp setting the expectation they won't restructure. This isn't suggesting the Vikings have asked him to take a pay-cut, yet. They can move money around if they want to keep him and lower the cap hit.
I dont see it, I dont see Barrs big influence on the opposing run game. IMO our DTs better our biggest keys to stopping the opposing offenses inside runs, which is where we get gashed the most in recent years. Like I said, Barr does a damn good job IMO on outside runs and shit in the flat, but is easily blocked and as such not a big threat to opponents power running games.
I just am done defending a guy that doesnt show up statistically at a position that should be able to be pointed to as a game changer from a statistical standpoint.
His average per year makes him the 7th highest paid linebacker in the league ( 3 million more per year than Kendricks)... I just dont see it.
His role isn't the type that is going to stuff the stat sheet. It shows up on the film and opposing coaches see/feel it. Its why the coaches/players have voted him to the pro bowl 4 times. Back to my original point, he isn't wort the $15M cap hit, but it isn't far off.
if he is impacting a game that would show up on a stat sheet in some way. if he isnt impacting a game why would opposing coaches game plan for him? wouldnt we see examples of his greatness flash from time to time? we play against other teams with "studs" that are game planned for and those guys still end up making an impact against our teams, why cant we expect the same from our top money LB?
The question would be, is he making opposing coaches game plan for him?
There was a QB protection rule made because of him.
Flashes? Depends on what you are looking for. For instance, LJ making a tackle for a 1 yard gain. That is his job, we should expect him to do it. But when he makes it on the sideline, that sez something. Barr does the same. There are plays he makes, that other LBs don't make. His size, length and speed are constantly flashing. But more so because offenses don't go there. It is the lockdown corner not getting any INTs. Not that Barr is a lockdown, but often teams just won't go there. With Wilson, they went there.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
Why would he restructure? Didn't he just sign for less to stay with the Vikings?
and his play showed it....
I used to defend him as the straw that stirred Zimmers drink, but I just cant any more. He is a good not great coverage guy, he is weak in run support in the middle, decent on the edge, and a disappointment as a pass rusher in terms of getting off blocks.
I am done with Barr and wish the team could be as well, but IIRC his contract makes it hard to force anything except maybe a trade.
Yup, its time to let Barr walk. He's hardly the player we're paying him to be.
Is Barr worth $15M? No. But the cap his is based on how the Vikings structured the contract. He is worth close to the $12.3M is he actually owed in 2021. People seem to think that Barr is supposed to be Vonn Miller which isn't his role at all. Nobody notices it but Barr is probably the Vikings best run defender and dictates how the opposing offense sets their protections. Zimmer loves Barr because Barr forces offenses to do what Zimmer wants them to do. That is worth a lot of money.
This is Barr's camp setting the expectation they won't restructure. This isn't suggesting the Vikings have asked him to take a pay-cut, yet. They can move money around if they want to keep him and lower the cap hit.
I dont see it, I dont see Barrs big influence on the opposing run game. IMO our DTs better our biggest keys to stopping the opposing offenses inside runs, which is where we get gashed the most in recent years. Like I said, Barr does a damn good job IMO on outside runs and shit in the flat, but is easily blocked and as such not a big threat to opponents power running games.
I just am done defending a guy that doesnt show up statistically at a position that should be able to be pointed to as a game changer from a statistical standpoint.
His average per year makes him the 7th highest paid linebacker in the league ( 3 million more per year than Kendricks)... I just dont see it.
Jimmy, curious if there's anyone on the roster you'd like to keep.
depends on the scenario... are we rebuilding or are we going to keep settling for mediocrity? besides cousins and barr, who else have I been vocal about moving on from?
Mediocrity. Dalvin. Hunter.
I asked about Hunters health and desire to want a new deal before proving his health, hardly saying move on from him.
Dalvin is a move on from only if the team is going to rebuild as he wont be worth a shit in 2-3 years when the team is ready to contend again.
IMO this team is more than 2 years away from contending for a SB and keeping aging players that could be draft picks on high salaries is a mistake instead of using that money to find and retain younger free agents that will still be viable in 2-3 years would be a better use of our current cap and the draft picks to load the cupboard for a real run.
Curious what you think the odds would be for us to land on upgrades at each of those positions in a blow it all up scenario.
curious what you think the odds are for staying with the status quo and reaching the promised land?
i know the odds are long for a rebuild, but they were long when we started on the roster we currently have. a few corrected mistakes along the way and maybe we could come out ahead if we took a small step back right now. think back about 8-9 years ago and we were swirling in the bowl, 5 years later we were contending and now we are falling away again. I dont see PIerce having a huge impact like LJ did, I dont see our young corners making huge strides in year 2, and I dont see Barrs return as a big improvement over what we got from Wilson this year. Hunter will help, but until we fix the gaping hole in the middle of that DL and get our cap under control to allow us to add quality depth at some key spots, I just dont see this current roster as one that can make the quick turn around. OL likely needs 2 IOL additions, I like Bradbury and CLeveland OK, but IMO we need 2 more for sure considering how banged up weve been in recent years in there and they are adding another regular season game this coming year. So thats at least 4 lineman, plus the other areas of concern like LB, WR, DB, STs.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
Why would he restructure? Didn't he just sign for less to stay with the Vikings?
and his play showed it....
I used to defend him as the straw that stirred Zimmers drink, but I just cant any more. He is a good not great coverage guy, he is weak in run support in the middle, decent on the edge, and a disappointment as a pass rusher in terms of getting off blocks.
I am done with Barr and wish the team could be as well, but IIRC his contract makes it hard to force anything except maybe a trade.
Yup, its time to let Barr walk. He's hardly the player we're paying him to be.
Is Barr worth $15M? No. But the cap his is based on how the Vikings structured the contract. He is worth close to the $12.3M is he actually owed in 2021. People seem to think that Barr is supposed to be Vonn Miller which isn't his role at all. Nobody notices it but Barr is probably the Vikings best run defender and dictates how the opposing offense sets their protections. Zimmer loves Barr because Barr forces offenses to do what Zimmer wants them to do. That is worth a lot of money.
This is Barr's camp setting the expectation they won't restructure. This isn't suggesting the Vikings have asked him to take a pay-cut, yet. They can move money around if they want to keep him and lower the cap hit.
I dont see it, I dont see Barrs big influence on the opposing run game. IMO our DTs better our biggest keys to stopping the opposing offenses inside runs, which is where we get gashed the most in recent years. Like I said, Barr does a damn good job IMO on outside runs and shit in the flat, but is easily blocked and as such not a big threat to opponents power running games.
I just am done defending a guy that doesnt show up statistically at a position that should be able to be pointed to as a game changer from a statistical standpoint.
His average per year makes him the 7th highest paid linebacker in the league ( 3 million more per year than Kendricks)... I just dont see it.
His role isn't the type that is going to stuff the stat sheet. It shows up on the film and opposing coaches see/feel it. Its why the coaches/players have voted him to the pro bowl 4 times. Back to my original point, he isn't wort the $15M cap hit, but it isn't far off.
if he is impacting a game that would show up on a stat sheet in some way. if he isnt impacting a game why would opposing coaches game plan for him? wouldnt we see examples of his greatness flash from time to time? we play against other teams with "studs" that are game planned for and those guys still end up making an impact against our teams, why cant we expect the same from our top money LB?
The question would be, is he making opposing coaches game plan for him?
There was a QB protection rule made because of him.
Flashes? Depends on what you are looking for. For instance, LJ making a tackle for a 1 yard gain. That is his job, we should expect him to do it. But when he makes it on the sideline, that sez something. Barr does the same. There are plays he makes, that other LBs don't make. His size, length and speed are constantly flashing. But more so because offenses don't go there. It is the lockdown corner not getting any INTs. Not that Barr is a lockdown, but often teams just won't go there. With Wilson, they went there.
I dont recall many plays were I've been wowed by barrs athleticism in recent years, hes good for a nice play in the flat on a screen once in while, but that's about all I can think of from 2 years ago.
I think a top 10 LB should have more than a couple TFLs on his highlight reel every year.
And that protection rule wasn't made for Barr, it was made because Rodgers got hurt because he hung onto the ball to long and landed badly. Nice play by Barr to finish the tackle, but it wasn't a superman effort on his part that caused the rule change.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
Why would he restructure? Didn't he just sign for less to stay with the Vikings?
and his play showed it....
I used to defend him as the straw that stirred Zimmers drink, but I just cant any more. He is a good not great coverage guy, he is weak in run support in the middle, decent on the edge, and a disappointment as a pass rusher in terms of getting off blocks.
I am done with Barr and wish the team could be as well, but IIRC his contract makes it hard to force anything except maybe a trade.
Yup, its time to let Barr walk. He's hardly the player we're paying him to be.
Is Barr worth $15M? No. But the cap his is based on how the Vikings structured the contract. He is worth close to the $12.3M is he actually owed in 2021. People seem to think that Barr is supposed to be Vonn Miller which isn't his role at all. Nobody notices it but Barr is probably the Vikings best run defender and dictates how the opposing offense sets their protections. Zimmer loves Barr because Barr forces offenses to do what Zimmer wants them to do. That is worth a lot of money.
This is Barr's camp setting the expectation they won't restructure. This isn't suggesting the Vikings have asked him to take a pay-cut, yet. They can move money around if they want to keep him and lower the cap hit.
I dont see it, I dont see Barrs big influence on the opposing run game. IMO our DTs better our biggest keys to stopping the opposing offenses inside runs, which is where we get gashed the most in recent years. Like I said, Barr does a damn good job IMO on outside runs and shit in the flat, but is easily blocked and as such not a big threat to opponents power running games.
I just am done defending a guy that doesnt show up statistically at a position that should be able to be pointed to as a game changer from a statistical standpoint.
His average per year makes him the 7th highest paid linebacker in the league ( 3 million more per year than Kendricks)... I just dont see it.
Jimmy, curious if there's anyone on the roster you'd like to keep.
depends on the scenario... are we rebuilding or are we going to keep settling for mediocrity? besides cousins and barr, who else have I been vocal about moving on from?
Mediocrity. Dalvin. Hunter.
I asked about Hunters health and desire to want a new deal before proving his health, hardly saying move on from him.
Dalvin is a move on from only if the team is going to rebuild as he wont be worth a shit in 2-3 years when the team is ready to contend again.
IMO this team is more than 2 years away from contending for a SB and keeping aging players that could be draft picks on high salaries is a mistake instead of using that money to find and retain younger free agents that will still be viable in 2-3 years would be a better use of our current cap and the draft picks to load the cupboard for a real run.
Curious what you think the odds would be for us to land on upgrades at each of those positions in a blow it all up scenario.
curious what you think the odds are for staying with the status quo and reaching the promised land?
Better than if we blew it up. I attend the school of thought that says the team that wins the Super Bowl is not some formidable power house following some model laid out from the year before. That model is always going to be different. It's the team that makes the playoffs and gets lucky, healthy and hot at the right time. So make the playoffs. As often as you can. And your odds of winning a super bowl are a lot higher than if you blow everything up and hope you land on players that are upgrades to players who are already among the best at their positions.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
Why would he restructure? Didn't he just sign for less to stay with the Vikings?
and his play showed it....
I used to defend him as the straw that stirred Zimmers drink, but I just cant any more. He is a good not great coverage guy, he is weak in run support in the middle, decent on the edge, and a disappointment as a pass rusher in terms of getting off blocks.
I am done with Barr and wish the team could be as well, but IIRC his contract makes it hard to force anything except maybe a trade.
Yup, its time to let Barr walk. He's hardly the player we're paying him to be.
Is Barr worth $15M? No. But the cap his is based on how the Vikings structured the contract. He is worth close to the $12.3M is he actually owed in 2021. People seem to think that Barr is supposed to be Vonn Miller which isn't his role at all. Nobody notices it but Barr is probably the Vikings best run defender and dictates how the opposing offense sets their protections. Zimmer loves Barr because Barr forces offenses to do what Zimmer wants them to do. That is worth a lot of money.
This is Barr's camp setting the expectation they won't restructure. This isn't suggesting the Vikings have asked him to take a pay-cut, yet. They can move money around if they want to keep him and lower the cap hit.
I dont see it, I dont see Barrs big influence on the opposing run game. IMO our DTs better our biggest keys to stopping the opposing offenses inside runs, which is where we get gashed the most in recent years. Like I said, Barr does a damn good job IMO on outside runs and shit in the flat, but is easily blocked and as such not a big threat to opponents power running games.
I just am done defending a guy that doesnt show up statistically at a position that should be able to be pointed to as a game changer from a statistical standpoint.
His average per year makes him the 7th highest paid linebacker in the league ( 3 million more per year than Kendricks)... I just dont see it.
Jimmy, curious if there's anyone on the roster you'd like to keep.
depends on the scenario... are we rebuilding or are we going to keep settling for mediocrity? besides cousins and barr, who else have I been vocal about moving on from?
Mediocrity. Dalvin. Hunter.
I asked about Hunters health and desire to want a new deal before proving his health, hardly saying move on from him.
Dalvin is a move on from only if the team is going to rebuild as he wont be worth a shit in 2-3 years when the team is ready to contend again.
IMO this team is more than 2 years away from contending for a SB and keeping aging players that could be draft picks on high salaries is a mistake instead of using that money to find and retain younger free agents that will still be viable in 2-3 years would be a better use of our current cap and the draft picks to load the cupboard for a real run.
Curious what you think the odds would be for us to land on upgrades at each of those positions in a blow it all up scenario.
curious what you think the odds are for staying with the status quo and reaching the promised land?
Better than if we blew it up. I attend the school of thought that says the team that wins the Super Bowl is not some formidable power house following some model laid out from the year before. That model is always going to be different. It's the team that makes the playoffs and gets lucky, healthy and hot at the right time. So make the playoffs. As often as you can. And your odds of winning a super bowl are a lot higher than if you blow everything up and hope you land on players that are upgrades to players who are already among the best at their positions.
is depending on high priced aging players the best scenario for getting lucky with health at the end of a grueling season? or maybe keeping the pipeline flowing with moderately priced talent so that you can have quality depth at most positions so you arent screwed when 1 or 2 players miss a month? no team has studs on the shelf, but few teams carry absolute crap like we have seen from some of our reserves the last few years... or in the case of back up QB, thankfully we havent had to see.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
Why would he restructure? Didn't he just sign for less to stay with the Vikings?
and his play showed it....
I used to defend him as the straw that stirred Zimmers drink, but I just cant any more. He is a good not great coverage guy, he is weak in run support in the middle, decent on the edge, and a disappointment as a pass rusher in terms of getting off blocks.
I am done with Barr and wish the team could be as well, but IIRC his contract makes it hard to force anything except maybe a trade.
Yup, its time to let Barr walk. He's hardly the player we're paying him to be.
Is Barr worth $15M? No. But the cap his is based on how the Vikings structured the contract. He is worth close to the $12.3M is he actually owed in 2021. People seem to think that Barr is supposed to be Vonn Miller which isn't his role at all. Nobody notices it but Barr is probably the Vikings best run defender and dictates how the opposing offense sets their protections. Zimmer loves Barr because Barr forces offenses to do what Zimmer wants them to do. That is worth a lot of money.
This is Barr's camp setting the expectation they won't restructure. This isn't suggesting the Vikings have asked him to take a pay-cut, yet. They can move money around if they want to keep him and lower the cap hit.
I dont see it, I dont see Barrs big influence on the opposing run game. IMO our DTs better our biggest keys to stopping the opposing offenses inside runs, which is where we get gashed the most in recent years. Like I said, Barr does a damn good job IMO on outside runs and shit in the flat, but is easily blocked and as such not a big threat to opponents power running games.
I just am done defending a guy that doesnt show up statistically at a position that should be able to be pointed to as a game changer from a statistical standpoint.
His average per year makes him the 7th highest paid linebacker in the league ( 3 million more per year than Kendricks)... I just dont see it.
Jimmy, curious if there's anyone on the roster you'd like to keep.
depends on the scenario... are we rebuilding or are we going to keep settling for mediocrity? besides cousins and barr, who else have I been vocal about moving on from?
Mediocrity. Dalvin. Hunter.
I asked about Hunters health and desire to want a new deal before proving his health, hardly saying move on from him.
Dalvin is a move on from only if the team is going to rebuild as he wont be worth a shit in 2-3 years when the team is ready to contend again.
IMO this team is more than 2 years away from contending for a SB and keeping aging players that could be draft picks on high salaries is a mistake instead of using that money to find and retain younger free agents that will still be viable in 2-3 years would be a better use of our current cap and the draft picks to load the cupboard for a real run.
Curious what you think the odds would be for us to land on upgrades at each of those positions in a blow it all up scenario.
curious what you think the odds are for staying with the status quo and reaching the promised land?
Better than if we blew it up. I attend the school of thought that says the team that wins the Super Bowl is not some formidable power house following some model laid out from the year before. That model is always going to be different. It's the team that makes the playoffs and gets lucky, healthy and hot at the right time. So make the playoffs. As often as you can. And your odds of winning a super bowl are a lot higher than if you blow everything up and hope you land on players that are upgrades to players who are already among the best at their positions.
is depending on high priced aging players the best scenario for getting lucky with health at the end of a grueling season? or maybe keeping the pipeline flowing with moderately priced talent so that you can have quality depth at most positions so you arent screwed when 1 or 2 players miss a month? no team has studs on the shelf, but few teams carry absolute crap like we have seen from some of our reserves the last few years... or in the case of back up QB, thankfully we havent had to see.
Our reserves are as good as anyone else's. Reserves are meant to replace injured starters here and there, not replace half the starting lineup at once. I'm not sure why this has to be said over and over.
If player A goes down, you put in player B, and you mitigate that weakness with scheme adjustments and you don't really lose much. If player A, B, C, D and E go down, you can't compete. I don't care how good your backups are.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
The question would be, is he making opposing coaches game plan for him?
There was a QB protection rule made because of him.
Flashes? Depends on what you are looking for. For instance, LJ making a tackle for a 1 yard gain. That is his job, we should expect him to do it. But when he makes it on the sideline, that sez something. Barr does the same. There are plays he makes, that other LBs don't make. His size, length and speed are constantly flashing. But more so because offenses don't go there. It is the lockdown corner not getting any INTs. Not that Barr is a lockdown, but often teams just won't go there. With Wilson, they went there.
I dont recall many plays were I've been wowed by barrs athleticism in recent years, hes good for a nice play in the flat on a screen once in while, but that's about all I can think of from 2 years ago.
I think a top 10 LB should have more than a couple TFLs on his highlight reel every year.
And that protection rule wasn't made for Barr, it was made because Rodgers got hurt because he hung onto the ball to long and landed badly. Nice play by Barr to finish the tackle, but it wasn't a superman effort on his part that caused the rule change.
That comment was tongue in cheek, but go watch that play again. No harm enjoying it. Now consider that Rodgers has made a living on those types of throws, but what was different this time? Barr was 11 yards away, 2 steps inside the hashmark when Rodgers floated out of the pocket. Barr hits him at the numbers, 9 yards upfield from where he started. There are numerous other instances where Barr closes the gap like a much smaller man.
He didn't play much last year and I didn't watch so who knows, but I am sure there are highlights from 2019 that illustrate his freakish athleticism.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
Why would he restructure? Didn't he just sign for less to stay with the Vikings?
and his play showed it....
I used to defend him as the straw that stirred Zimmers drink, but I just cant any more. He is a good not great coverage guy, he is weak in run support in the middle, decent on the edge, and a disappointment as a pass rusher in terms of getting off blocks.
I am done with Barr and wish the team could be as well, but IIRC his contract makes it hard to force anything except maybe a trade.
Yup, its time to let Barr walk. He's hardly the player we're paying him to be.
Is Barr worth $15M? No. But the cap his is based on how the Vikings structured the contract. He is worth close to the $12.3M is he actually owed in 2021. People seem to think that Barr is supposed to be Vonn Miller which isn't his role at all. Nobody notices it but Barr is probably the Vikings best run defender and dictates how the opposing offense sets their protections. Zimmer loves Barr because Barr forces offenses to do what Zimmer wants them to do. That is worth a lot of money.
This is Barr's camp setting the expectation they won't restructure. This isn't suggesting the Vikings have asked him to take a pay-cut, yet. They can move money around if they want to keep him and lower the cap hit.
I dont see it, I dont see Barrs big influence on the opposing run game. IMO our DTs better our biggest keys to stopping the opposing offenses inside runs, which is where we get gashed the most in recent years. Like I said, Barr does a damn good job IMO on outside runs and shit in the flat, but is easily blocked and as such not a big threat to opponents power running games.
I just am done defending a guy that doesnt show up statistically at a position that should be able to be pointed to as a game changer from a statistical standpoint.
His average per year makes him the 7th highest paid linebacker in the league ( 3 million more per year than Kendricks)... I just dont see it.
Jimmy, curious if there's anyone on the roster you'd like to keep.
depends on the scenario... are we rebuilding or are we going to keep settling for mediocrity? besides cousins and barr, who else have I been vocal about moving on from?
Mediocrity. Dalvin. Hunter.
I asked about Hunters health and desire to want a new deal before proving his health, hardly saying move on from him.
Dalvin is a move on from only if the team is going to rebuild as he wont be worth a shit in 2-3 years when the team is ready to contend again.
IMO this team is more than 2 years away from contending for a SB and keeping aging players that could be draft picks on high salaries is a mistake instead of using that money to find and retain younger free agents that will still be viable in 2-3 years would be a better use of our current cap and the draft picks to load the cupboard for a real run.
Curious what you think the odds would be for us to land on upgrades at each of those positions in a blow it all up scenario.
curious what you think the odds are for staying with the status quo and reaching the promised land?
Better than if we blew it up. I attend the school of thought that says the team that wins the Super Bowl is not some formidable power house following some model laid out from the year before. That model is always going to be different. It's the team that makes the playoffs and gets lucky, healthy and hot at the right time. So make the playoffs. As often as you can. And your odds of winning a super bowl are a lot higher than if you blow everything up and hope you land on players that are upgrades to players who are already among the best at their positions.
is depending on high priced aging players the best scenario for getting lucky with health at the end of a grueling season? or maybe keeping the pipeline flowing with moderately priced talent so that you can have quality depth at most positions so you arent screwed when 1 or 2 players miss a month? no team has studs on the shelf, but few teams carry absolute crap like we have seen from some of our reserves the last few years... or in the case of back up QB, thankfully we havent had to see.
Our reserves are as good as anyone else's. Reserves are meant to replace injured starters here and there, not replace half the starting lineup at once. I'm not sure why this has to be said over and over.
If player A goes down, you put in player B, and you mitigate that weakness with scheme adjustments and you don't really lose much. If player A, B, C, D and E go down, you can't compete. I don't care how good your backups are.
Agreed.
Eric Wilson was a solid LB to put into the lineup for Barr. But when you lose Kendricks and you're playing with Todd Davis, Wilson, and Hardy Nickerson Jr... not as confident in the results. Giving the rookie CBs more run was fine, but when you ended up with Condrea Tankersly, Dylan Maybin, and Chris Jones... not good.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
Why would he restructure? Didn't he just sign for less to stay with the Vikings?
and his play showed it....
I used to defend him as the straw that stirred Zimmers drink, but I just cant any more. He is a good not great coverage guy, he is weak in run support in the middle, decent on the edge, and a disappointment as a pass rusher in terms of getting off blocks.
I am done with Barr and wish the team could be as well, but IIRC his contract makes it hard to force anything except maybe a trade.
Yup, its time to let Barr walk. He's hardly the player we're paying him to be.
Is Barr worth $15M? No. But the cap his is based on how the Vikings structured the contract. He is worth close to the $12.3M is he actually owed in 2021. People seem to think that Barr is supposed to be Vonn Miller which isn't his role at all. Nobody notices it but Barr is probably the Vikings best run defender and dictates how the opposing offense sets their protections. Zimmer loves Barr because Barr forces offenses to do what Zimmer wants them to do. That is worth a lot of money.
This is Barr's camp setting the expectation they won't restructure. This isn't suggesting the Vikings have asked him to take a pay-cut, yet. They can move money around if they want to keep him and lower the cap hit.
I dont see it, I dont see Barrs big influence on the opposing run game. IMO our DTs better our biggest keys to stopping the opposing offenses inside runs, which is where we get gashed the most in recent years. Like I said, Barr does a damn good job IMO on outside runs and shit in the flat, but is easily blocked and as such not a big threat to opponents power running games.
I just am done defending a guy that doesnt show up statistically at a position that should be able to be pointed to as a game changer from a statistical standpoint.
His average per year makes him the 7th highest paid linebacker in the league ( 3 million more per year than Kendricks)... I just dont see it.
Jimmy, curious if there's anyone on the roster you'd like to keep.
depends on the scenario... are we rebuilding or are we going to keep settling for mediocrity? besides cousins and barr, who else have I been vocal about moving on from?
Mediocrity. Dalvin. Hunter.
I asked about Hunters health and desire to want a new deal before proving his health, hardly saying move on from him.
Dalvin is a move on from only if the team is going to rebuild as he wont be worth a shit in 2-3 years when the team is ready to contend again.
IMO this team is more than 2 years away from contending for a SB and keeping aging players that could be draft picks on high salaries is a mistake instead of using that money to find and retain younger free agents that will still be viable in 2-3 years would be a better use of our current cap and the draft picks to load the cupboard for a real run.
Curious what you think the odds would be for us to land on upgrades at each of those positions in a blow it all up scenario.
curious what you think the odds are for staying with the status quo and reaching the promised land?
Better than if we blew it up. I attend the school of thought that says the team that wins the Super Bowl is not some formidable power house following some model laid out from the year before. That model is always going to be different. It's the team that makes the playoffs and gets lucky, healthy and hot at the right time. So make the playoffs. As often as you can. And your odds of winning a super bowl are a lot higher than if you blow everything up and hope you land on players that are upgrades to players who are already among the best at their positions.
I don't think you're wrong, but there is a qualification missing: make the playoffs as often as you can...with a STRONG team. In 7 years, the Vikings have had 3 teams make the playoffs, but only 1 of those was strong enough to get a first-round bye (which helps that health factor being discussed). In the last 45 years, only 7 wildcard teams have won the SB. It's possible - I know, the Bucs just did it - but exceptional. Of the 90 teams playing in Super Bowls, 72 of them have been seeded #1 or #2 in their conference, and 18 have been #3-6.
Other than 2017, Vikings under Zimmer have been consistently on the edge of the playoffs - they don't get eliminated from playoff contention until the last two weeks of the season, but they also aren't strong enough to lockup a spot either.
Like Jimmy, I think they are about to slide backwards. 2021 schedule looks much tougher than their earlier "every other year" weak years and the salary cap is biting them. For every "young upcoming player" on the defense, there is another aging (Smith and Barr), leaving (Harris and Wilson), or trying to return from serious injury (Hunter and Hughes). IMO the offense peaked in 2020 and I don't really believe the coaching changes will be seamless. But - either I will be wrong and Zimmer will shut me up, or I'll be correct and a 10-loss season will start the rebuild.
yeah, look at the falcons game, giants game, GB monday night game for 2019
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