Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
When they want an increase in pay ask what new skills they are working on, and support that as a way to a raise, create a CI culture. I constantly tell the floor workers, they need to look at they bring to the table. The worst thing I ever heard was a operator, who had just got a raise tell me that "he gets paid to much" to clean up his machine.
are new skills expected of those benefitting from the artificial mandated increase? Isn't it expected that the current system of reward is based somewhat on rewarding skill levels and that those earning the lowest wages bring the least amount of valued skills and experience to the company they work for?
Yep, min wage is a starting point position, not a hopeless destination. Fifteen bucks an hour is 31K a year, do you think these jobs also include health and life insurance, any other benefits?
problem is... some are more than happy not to improve themselves as employees, we offer all kinds of incentives to employees to get better training and with it pay increases, some do the work, others just sit around and piss and moan about their pay check. not everybody is motivated enough to help themselves.
Personally I think our country needs to treat high school graduates like army recruits, take the ASVAB test and find out what people are good candidates for in terms of attitude and interest, match those qualities and what not up with needed jobs in our country and make free or really really affordable education available to any kid that wants to enter those fields, provided those kids graduate and take the jobs that they are then trained for, their education costs are forgiven based on years of service. In SD we have a program like that for need based students called "Build Dakota" skilled fields of need are identified and any eligible kids that want to enter those fields are eligible for a scholarship that is sponsored by employers from those fields. Kids that complete their training then have options of where they want to go to work. My SIL got his RN this way and him and my daughter were able to come away with a really sweet deal once the competing hospitals found out they were basically getting 2 RNs for the price of 1 since I had already paid for my daughters education. My daughter used that leverage though to get a higher starting wage.
anyway, IMO if we truly want to improve the bottom line for the bottom earners, we need to change the way we prepare some people for their working life. starting in Jr High we need to start focusing their educations more on things that will help them earn a living and less on things that wont and then using testing make more of an effort to help steer those kids towards something that will pay the bills instead of having a society filled with teenage superstar athletes that have no life skills for when their athletic careers end at 18. I am all for student loan forgiveness, but it needs to be for those that actually finish their schooling and are entering fields of need.
sorry I kind of went OT there.
Sounds like one hell of a government mandate to get them to do things that are all ready available. Hell, Americans won't even cover their mouths to prevent illness when told to, all the while saying their second amendment insures that freedom.
what govt mandate is that?
"Personally I think our country needs to treat high school graduates like army recruits, take the ASVAB test and find out what people are good candidates for in terms of attitude and interest, match those qualities and what not up with needed jobs in our country and make free or really really affordable education available to any kid that wants to enter those fields, provided those kids graduate and take the jobs that they are then trained for, their education costs are forgiven based on years of service."
That one implied by "our country" and "treat like army recruits", once you are in the Army aren't you considered gov. property or is that jus a movie myth. Did I miss your point?
Yeah, you did. I am saying our public school system fails a lot of kids because of the myth that all kids can become whatever they want. Fact is that there are limitations, se we are born with,, some are cultural,, but mostly self imposed, and we would be much better served by creating a system that prepares us for the realities of life than one that we are currently using that leaves so many in the wake of reality.
I am not saying pigeon hole kids at 13 for a life of servitude, but rather make them more aware at an early age of what their current attitude and interests prepare them for, if that is their goal or limitations put them on a path that prepares them better for that destination, but if they yearn for more then show them early on that they are not on the right path and hopefully they have the intestinal fortitude to choose a better route.
Not a snowballs chance in hell you could actually do something sensible like this. People would scream at the top of their lungs about every ism out there.
Quote: @Mike Olson said:
I recently read that labor is 9% of the cost of goods right now. In the 50's I think it said that labor accounted for 18% of goods. Or roughly double what it is today.... and that is the era that people point to for the golden age of our economy.
The idea that higher labor costs translates to higher product costs isn't true (necessarily). You have to remember that putting money in people's pocket has a multiplier effect when it is spent. It isn't 1 to 1 ratio.
At that time there was more competition for both labor and market, the profits at the top weren't what they are today. The distribution of wealth was more evenly spread. I'd doubt we could ever get back to mom and pops being the back bone of communities in terms of employment opportunities.
I will admit that I dont know if trumps anti China approach was best for America, but I will defend that the more manufacturing jobs we let 3rd world countries siphon from America's soil we allow, the weaker we become.
I dont think there is a global harmony where there is no suffering, where there is a balance between those that have end those that don't. At best we can hope to find it on a micro scale where we look for solutions for our countrymen and women, but that will not happen with a govt that puts global concerns ahead of that of the country they were elected to serve and protect.
Things like climate change, and others that affect the planet are important, but those are world wide and we as Americans can not stand for solutions that unfairly penalize American citizens and weaken our position as a global leader.
Lets be honest, bending to other countries as we have done in recent years does not endear us to their factions, it makes us appear weak, and that stands a more severe threat to our way of life than any planetary concerns that the fear mongers like to build campaigns upon.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
When they want an increase in pay ask what new skills they are working on, and support that as a way to a raise, create a CI culture. I constantly tell the floor workers, they need to look at they bring to the table. The worst thing I ever heard was a operator, who had just got a raise tell me that "he gets paid to much" to clean up his machine.
are new skills expected of those benefitting from the artificial mandated increase? Isn't it expected that the current system of reward is based somewhat on rewarding skill levels and that those earning the lowest wages bring the least amount of valued skills and experience to the company they work for?
Yep, min wage is a starting point position, not a hopeless destination. Fifteen bucks an hour is 31K a year, do you think these jobs also include health and life insurance, any other benefits?
problem is... some are more than happy not to improve themselves as employees, we offer all kinds of incentives to employees to get better training and with it pay increases, some do the work, others just sit around and piss and moan about their pay check. not everybody is motivated enough to help themselves.
Personally I think our country needs to treat high school graduates like army recruits, take the ASVAB test and find out what people are good candidates for in terms of attitude and interest, match those qualities and what not up with needed jobs in our country and make free or really really affordable education available to any kid that wants to enter those fields, provided those kids graduate and take the jobs that they are then trained for, their education costs are forgiven based on years of service. In SD we have a program like that for need based students called "Build Dakota" skilled fields of need are identified and any eligible kids that want to enter those fields are eligible for a scholarship that is sponsored by employers from those fields. Kids that complete their training then have options of where they want to go to work. My SIL got his RN this way and him and my daughter were able to come away with a really sweet deal once the competing hospitals found out they were basically getting 2 RNs for the price of 1 since I had already paid for my daughters education. My daughter used that leverage though to get a higher starting wage.
anyway, IMO if we truly want to improve the bottom line for the bottom earners, we need to change the way we prepare some people for their working life. starting in Jr High we need to start focusing their educations more on things that will help them earn a living and less on things that wont and then using testing make more of an effort to help steer those kids towards something that will pay the bills instead of having a society filled with teenage superstar athletes that have no life skills for when their athletic careers end at 18. I am all for student loan forgiveness, but it needs to be for those that actually finish their schooling and are entering fields of need.
sorry I kind of went OT there.
Sounds like one hell of a government mandate to get them to do things that are all ready available. Hell, Americans won't even cover their mouths to prevent illness when told to, all the while saying their second amendment insures that freedom.
what govt mandate is that?
"Personally I think our country needs to treat high school graduates like army recruits, take the ASVAB test and find out what people are good candidates for in terms of attitude and interest, match those qualities and what not up with needed jobs in our country and make free or really really affordable education available to any kid that wants to enter those fields, provided those kids graduate and take the jobs that they are then trained for, their education costs are forgiven based on years of service."
That one implied by "our country" and "treat like army recruits", once you are in the Army aren't you considered gov. property or is that jus a movie myth. Did I miss your point?
Yeah, you did. I am saying our public school system fails a lot of kids because of the myth that all kids can become whatever they want. Fact is that there are limitations, se we are born with,, some are cultural,, but mostly self imposed, and we would be much better served by creating a system that prepares us for the realities of life than one that we are currently using that leaves so many in the wake of reality.
I am not saying pigeon hole kids at 13 for a life of servitude, but rather make them more aware at an early age of what their current attitude and interests prepare them for, if that is their goal or limitations put them on a path that prepares them better for that destination, but if they yearn for more then show them early on that they are not on the right path and hopefully they have the intestinal fortitude to choose a better route.
Not a snowballs chance in hell you could actually do something sensible like this. People would scream at the top of their lungs about every ism out there.
Maybe not, but our current system is failing. So what are the alternatives? Robin hood was a nice fairy tale, but we know stealing from the rich is a myth since they control the govt and in essence the rules, we can't steal from them and give to the poor. So that leave stealing from the middle class amd all that does is create more poor, where does it end and where is the proposed break even?
Fat cats aren't going to give up their scratching posts, those that want to eat off the lowest branch dont seem to be getting any less, so what is the solution?
We are headed towards a European type collapse where the promissory notes out weigh the income.
Crazy shit is that most world govts are in the same boat, what are we setting ourselves up for when 40 families across the globe own our worlds debt?
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
When they want an increase in pay ask what new skills they are working on, and support that as a way to a raise, create a CI culture. I constantly tell the floor workers, they need to look at they bring to the table. The worst thing I ever heard was a operator, who had just got a raise tell me that "he gets paid to much" to clean up his machine.
are new skills expected of those benefitting from the artificial mandated increase? Isn't it expected that the current system of reward is based somewhat on rewarding skill levels and that those earning the lowest wages bring the least amount of valued skills and experience to the company they work for?
Yep, min wage is a starting point position, not a hopeless destination. Fifteen bucks an hour is 31K a year, do you think these jobs also include health and life insurance, any other benefits?
problem is... some are more than happy not to improve themselves as employees, we offer all kinds of incentives to employees to get better training and with it pay increases, some do the work, others just sit around and piss and moan about their pay check. not everybody is motivated enough to help themselves.
Personally I think our country needs to treat high school graduates like army recruits, take the ASVAB test and find out what people are good candidates for in terms of attitude and interest, match those qualities and what not up with needed jobs in our country and make free or really really affordable education available to any kid that wants to enter those fields, provided those kids graduate and take the jobs that they are then trained for, their education costs are forgiven based on years of service. In SD we have a program like that for need based students called "Build Dakota" skilled fields of need are identified and any eligible kids that want to enter those fields are eligible for a scholarship that is sponsored by employers from those fields. Kids that complete their training then have options of where they want to go to work. My SIL got his RN this way and him and my daughter were able to come away with a really sweet deal once the competing hospitals found out they were basically getting 2 RNs for the price of 1 since I had already paid for my daughters education. My daughter used that leverage though to get a higher starting wage.
anyway, IMO if we truly want to improve the bottom line for the bottom earners, we need to change the way we prepare some people for their working life. starting in Jr High we need to start focusing their educations more on things that will help them earn a living and less on things that wont and then using testing make more of an effort to help steer those kids towards something that will pay the bills instead of having a society filled with teenage superstar athletes that have no life skills for when their athletic careers end at 18. I am all for student loan forgiveness, but it needs to be for those that actually finish their schooling and are entering fields of need.
sorry I kind of went OT there.
Sounds like one hell of a government mandate to get them to do things that are all ready available. Hell, Americans won't even cover their mouths to prevent illness when told to, all the while saying their second amendment insures that freedom.
what govt mandate is that?
"Personally I think our country needs to treat high school graduates like army recruits, take the ASVAB test and find out what people are good candidates for in terms of attitude and interest, match those qualities and what not up with needed jobs in our country and make free or really really affordable education available to any kid that wants to enter those fields, provided those kids graduate and take the jobs that they are then trained for, their education costs are forgiven based on years of service."
That one implied by "our country" and "treat like army recruits", once you are in the Army aren't you considered gov. property or is that jus a movie myth. Did I miss your point?
Yeah, you did. I am saying our public school system fails a lot of kids because of the myth that all kids can become whatever they want. Fact is that there are limitations, se we are born with,, some are cultural,, but mostly self imposed, and we would be much better served by creating a system that prepares us for the realities of life than one that we are currently using that leaves so many in the wake of reality.
I am not saying pigeon hole kids at 13 for a life of servitude, but rather make them more aware at an early age of what their current attitude and interests prepare them for, if that is their goal or limitations put them on a path that prepares them better for that destination, but if they yearn for more then show them early on that they are not on the right path and hopefully they have the intestinal fortitude to choose a better route.
So how much will this vocational counselling cost, here in Iowa we are trying to subsidize private schools with public school funds, so kid can be sent away from "under performing" schools, I would say under resourced, but that's just my opinion. Is this going to be part of a standardized curriculum, whos going to do this vocational counseling, current teachers? Do you remember your school counselor and taking the Strong Interest Inventory, or was that just in Minnesota thing in the 60's and 70's? Teaching to awareness, what could go wrong?
Quote: @BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
When they want an increase in pay ask what new skills they are working on, and support that as a way to a raise, create a CI culture. I constantly tell the floor workers, they need to look at they bring to the table. The worst thing I ever heard was a operator, who had just got a raise tell me that "he gets paid to much" to clean up his machine.
are new skills expected of those benefitting from the artificial mandated increase? Isn't it expected that the current system of reward is based somewhat on rewarding skill levels and that those earning the lowest wages bring the least amount of valued skills and experience to the company they work for?
Yep, min wage is a starting point position, not a hopeless destination. Fifteen bucks an hour is 31K a year, do you think these jobs also include health and life insurance, any other benefits?
problem is... some are more than happy not to improve themselves as employees, we offer all kinds of incentives to employees to get better training and with it pay increases, some do the work, others just sit around and piss and moan about their pay check. not everybody is motivated enough to help themselves.
Personally I think our country needs to treat high school graduates like army recruits, take the ASVAB test and find out what people are good candidates for in terms of attitude and interest, match those qualities and what not up with needed jobs in our country and make free or really really affordable education available to any kid that wants to enter those fields, provided those kids graduate and take the jobs that they are then trained for, their education costs are forgiven based on years of service. In SD we have a program like that for need based students called "Build Dakota" skilled fields of need are identified and any eligible kids that want to enter those fields are eligible for a scholarship that is sponsored by employers from those fields. Kids that complete their training then have options of where they want to go to work. My SIL got his RN this way and him and my daughter were able to come away with a really sweet deal once the competing hospitals found out they were basically getting 2 RNs for the price of 1 since I had already paid for my daughters education. My daughter used that leverage though to get a higher starting wage.
anyway, IMO if we truly want to improve the bottom line for the bottom earners, we need to change the way we prepare some people for their working life. starting in Jr High we need to start focusing their educations more on things that will help them earn a living and less on things that wont and then using testing make more of an effort to help steer those kids towards something that will pay the bills instead of having a society filled with teenage superstar athletes that have no life skills for when their athletic careers end at 18. I am all for student loan forgiveness, but it needs to be for those that actually finish their schooling and are entering fields of need.
sorry I kind of went OT there.
Sounds like one hell of a government mandate to get them to do things that are all ready available. Hell, Americans won't even cover their mouths to prevent illness when told to, all the while saying their second amendment insures that freedom.
what govt mandate is that?
"Personally I think our country needs to treat high school graduates like army recruits, take the ASVAB test and find out what people are good candidates for in terms of attitude and interest, match those qualities and what not up with needed jobs in our country and make free or really really affordable education available to any kid that wants to enter those fields, provided those kids graduate and take the jobs that they are then trained for, their education costs are forgiven based on years of service."
That one implied by "our country" and "treat like army recruits", once you are in the Army aren't you considered gov. property or is that jus a movie myth. Did I miss your point?
Yeah, you did. I am saying our public school system fails a lot of kids because of the myth that all kids can become whatever they want. Fact is that there are limitations, se we are born with,, some are cultural,, but mostly self imposed, and we would be much better served by creating a system that prepares us for the realities of life than one that we are currently using that leaves so many in the wake of reality.
I am not saying pigeon hole kids at 13 for a life of servitude, but rather make them more aware at an early age of what their current attitude and interests prepare them for, if that is their goal or limitations put them on a path that prepares them better for that destination, but if they yearn for more then show them early on that they are not on the right path and hopefully they have the intestinal fortitude to choose a better route.
So how much will this vocational counselling cost, here in Iowa we are trying to subsidize private schools with public school funds, so kid can be sent away from "under performing" schools, I would say under resourced, but that's just my opinion. Is this going to be part of a standardized curriculum, whos going to do this vocational counseling, current teachers? Do you remember your school counselor and taking the Strong Interest Inventory, or was that just in Minnesota thing in the 60's and 70's? Teaching to awareness, what could go wrong?
nope, I dont remember that. again, I am not saying we pigeon hole kids, but give them career track options that match interest and aptitude. we are spending more per student than about every other country and are not getting the bang for the buck. our public school system and post secondary systems are failing when we have so many people walking around with HS degrees that cant do basic math, or worse those that dont even finish their degree, and all those college degrees ( and the associated expenses of them ) that are in fields with little to no employment opportunities.
as far as the costs... since when does this country care about what something costs from a govt spending perspective? I would suggest we look at how money is currently being spend in the public school systems and try and identify things that arent benefitting our kids education and cutting those programs first... like athletics. I have yet to hear of a good reason for using education dollars to build football stadiums, basketball courts, etc, when our science and computer labs are woefully under funded. why we are paying coaches thousands of dollars a year, but we dont have money for Home Ec programs. our system needs a wake up call and a hard reboot.
We will have to agree to disagree. I look at my situation and have my own opinions. Moved around the country, bought houses based on school districts, and formed my opinions on what was successful for us. I care about my community and what happens to the next generations and will use my insights to contribute to the causes that will promote that.
I retired yesterday, just shy of 50 years in the workforce, so I have earned an opinion, I guess.
U.S. billionaire wealth in 2010: $1.5 trillion
U.S. billionaire wealth in 2020: $3.9 trillion
Federal minimum wage in 2010: $7.25
Federal minimum wage in 2020: $7.25
why should people enforced to pay people 15bdollars an hour if there performance does not deserve that
a huge portion of this country is just lazy and want s more for less work
Quote: @Viking1987 said:
a huge portion of this country is just lazy and want s more for less work
You realize that people are working vastly more for comparably less in a world where everything costs incredibly more than it did when you were getting set up right?
I would love to see people that spread this nonsense try to make it as an 18 year old today with this mindset. It isn’t easy for all of them. Especially the ones not coming from a family that benefitted from an easier path to begin with.
What Inmean by that is that I know for damn sure my kids will have it easier than a lot of kids because of the opportunities that they will have based on (yes the hard work of me and my wife but also) the fact that we had an easier path to becoming established in life than theirs.
In my opinion understanding that my fellow countrymen are dealing with that and my willingness to assist with that is my patriotic duty to make our country stronger. United we stand. Divided we fall.
|
