Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ Vikergirl said:
So what were the other options at the time? Yeah exactly. I am all for moving on but they can't just yet. Unless they find a taker, they are stuck. They have to draft a new qb and he can sit until Cousins moves on somehow.
This is exactly it. Where the vikes were picking in the first round there were no QB's available. Frankly, there wasnt much available until way late in the draft and you arent going to start a late draft pick on a team that just went to the NFC Championship game. On to Free Agents: Cousins was by far the best choice. Some of you Keenum fans will think he was the better choice but just stop, no he wasnt. Teddy was a HUGE gamble at that time and when you are in your window, which the Vikings were, you dont take a gamble on Teddy. At the time it was the right choice because it was really the only choice. It sucks now, for sure, but if you replay the outcome, it's the same 99/100
there were plenty of people that argued that cousins game wasnt worth the money, and in hindsight... they were right.
there was plenty of evidence that much of what we heard at the time has proven true.
Throws interceptions in clutch moments... check
Locks onto recievers... check
Immobile and doesnt escape pressure.... check
Stats built in garbage time against prevent defenses... check
you can get all that from a gamble or bargain QB and that is exactly what we have gotten and there were quite a few at the time that plenty vocal about it.
Oh I agree, my argument is they had no other realistic options at QB for a team that just went to the NFC Championship game. Cousins was risky at the time because his record wasnt great, my point is there were no good QB's available in the draft that late in the first round or second round that were going to start.
but you dont compound a weakness ( the QB position) by overpaying for a QB and then ultimately having to sacrifice at other positions. we could have gotten Case and Teddy combined for less than what they paid Cousins and been just as competitive IMO. What Cousins makes up for in accuracy he gives up in lack of pocket awareness and mobility to keenum, and Teddy wouldnt have been ready that first year, but he would have been a secure option to compete with a new draft pick if they had let Case go by now.
point is its not as cut and dry that Cousins was the only option IMO, plenty didnt see it that way at the time and history has proven them right... the doubling down on the mistake is where I am fine with blowin this whole thing up and starting over from the GM on down... that was simply a mistake beyond comprehension IMO.
They were never going to pay Keenum starter money because he's not a starter. The year before Minnesota he threw 9 TDs and 11 picks. The year after, he threw 18 tds and 15 picks. I know he was great the one year for us, but fans on this site need to realize Keenum was not the answer at QB. Also, Teddy was a HUGE gamble at the time, so I do think Cousins was the only viable option at that time for a team that just went to the NFCCG.
Cousins was great last year and he sucks now. The contract sucks and it hurts us moving forward, but at the time it was the right move to sign Cousins (contract shouldn't have been $28MM a year I do agree on that).
Quote: @Hawkvike25 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ Vikergirl said:
So what were the other options at the time? Yeah exactly. I am all for moving on but they can't just yet. Unless they find a taker, they are stuck. They have to draft a new qb and he can sit until Cousins moves on somehow.
This is exactly it. Where the vikes were picking in the first round there were no QB's available. Frankly, there wasnt much available until way late in the draft and you arent going to start a late draft pick on a team that just went to the NFC Championship game. On to Free Agents: Cousins was by far the best choice. Some of you Keenum fans will think he was the better choice but just stop, no he wasnt. Teddy was a HUGE gamble at that time and when you are in your window, which the Vikings were, you dont take a gamble on Teddy. At the time it was the right choice because it was really the only choice. It sucks now, for sure, but if you replay the outcome, it's the same 99/100
there were plenty of people that argued that cousins game wasnt worth the money, and in hindsight... they were right.
there was plenty of evidence that much of what we heard at the time has proven true.
Throws interceptions in clutch moments... check
Locks onto recievers... check
Immobile and doesnt escape pressure.... check
Stats built in garbage time against prevent defenses... check
you can get all that from a gamble or bargain QB and that is exactly what we have gotten and there were quite a few at the time that plenty vocal about it.
Oh I agree, my argument is they had no other realistic options at QB for a team that just went to the NFC Championship game. Cousins was risky at the time because his record wasnt great, my point is there were no good QB's available in the draft that late in the first round or second round that were going to start.
but you dont compound a weakness ( the QB position) by overpaying for a QB and then ultimately having to sacrifice at other positions. we could have gotten Case and Teddy combined for less than what they paid Cousins and been just as competitive IMO. What Cousins makes up for in accuracy he gives up in lack of pocket awareness and mobility to keenum, and Teddy wouldnt have been ready that first year, but he would have been a secure option to compete with a new draft pick if they had let Case go by now.
point is its not as cut and dry that Cousins was the only option IMO, plenty didnt see it that way at the time and history has proven them right... the doubling down on the mistake is where I am fine with blowin this whole thing up and starting over from the GM on down... that was simply a mistake beyond comprehension IMO.
They were never going to pay Keenum starter money because he's not a starter. The year before Minnesota he threw 9 TDs and 11 picks. The year after, he threw 18 tds and 15 picks. I know he was great the one year for us, but fans on this site need to realize Keenum was not the answer at QB. Also, Teddy was a HUGE gamble at the time, so I do think Cousins was the only viable option at that time for a team that just went to the NFCCG.
Cousins was great last year and he sucks now. The contract sucks and it hurts us moving forward, but at the time it was the right move to sign Cousins (contract shouldn't have been $28MM a year I do agree on that).
Cousins was hardly great last year, he was good enough most the time last year, but he made some game losing mistakes that prevent me from saying he was great.
the team could have gotten Keenum on the cheap if they had tried IMO, same with Teddy, what Case did the year before or the year after is immaterial since it was with a different team, we had a guy that took the Vikings to the NFCCG with a horseshoe hanging out of his ass and we traded that for a guy that cost twice as much and did not really do that much more.
oh, and instead of Cousins, if you really didnt want Case, you could have gotten Fitzpatrick, Foles, or Cutler, none of which are overly impressive, but plenty of people were pretty much dead on with Cousins not being the guy either.
I don't think Zimmer wanted Case especially after that comment about the horseshoe and Teddy was hurt by how things were handled. I understand the hesitation with Teddy though. I still think there is one more year of Cousins unless there is a trade partner. They still need to draft a qb.
Quote: @Vikergirl said:
I don't think Zimmer wanted Case especially after that comment about the horseshoe and Teddy was hurt by how things were handled. I understand the hesitation with Teddy though. I still think there is one more year of Cousins unless there is a trade partner. They still need to draft a qb.
well if there is one more year there will be 2 more years.
The front office never built an OL that would consistently protect their non-mobile QB. They knew what he was when they signed him and haven't done enough to protect him. When he has a clean pocket he's one of the best in the business because of his accuracy. I know they have made a few high draft picks but it's obviously not enough.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ Zanary said:
Meh.
Cousins is one member of a team that's in complete disarray right now. Atlanta was able to score at will...and they were seen as more pathetic than us going into Sunday's game.
The o-line is an ongoing problem, Cook is missing time again, and it looks like Special Teams is the only portion of the team that's doing...decently...with any consistency.
Cousins is having an awful season, but all of the focus on him is as ridiculous as all of the cap hit for him. There is a whole team to consider, and the whole team is basically broken right now.
This. The Viking fanbase is SO ready to jump down Cousin's throat for almost anything. Way too convenient. This defense is abysmal.
And lol at Vikingage. Its basically a gossip column. The headline is clickbait.
Agree completely that Cousins is hardly the only problem on this team but getting the most negative attention because...well, quarterbacks do.
But I think it is also about his contract, especially the 2020 extension which ties the team to the huge commitment through 2022. If fans start thinking, "Time to rebuild", that contract makes it really hard to move on from Cousins and have decent salary cap space.
A cynic could even suspect that the extension given to Cousins was designed to prevent the Wilfs from "blowing it up" within the next two years.
Errr you mean the g.m. said to himself 'hey if I really make a mess of this they'll have to keep me around' ?
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ Zanary said:
Meh.
Cousins is one member of a team that's in complete disarray right now. Atlanta was able to score at will...and they were seen as more pathetic than us going into Sunday's game.
The o-line is an ongoing problem, Cook is missing time again, and it looks like Special Teams is the only portion of the team that's doing...decently...with any consistency.
Cousins is having an awful season, but all of the focus on him is as ridiculous as all of the cap hit for him. There is a whole team to consider, and the whole team is basically broken right now.
This. The Viking fanbase is SO ready to jump down Cousin's throat for almost anything. Way too convenient. This defense is abysmal.
And lol at Vikingage. Its basically a gossip column. The headline is clickbait.
he cant control the D, but he does control what he does on offense and his play is no where commensurate with his compensation and contract. if anything the D giving up big leads has led to Cousins having easier opportunities to build his stats.
blow it all up. no way in hell should they pick up Cousins 3rd year, pay him off to go away and start the healing process this year.
Last year he had his best passer rating and year as a NFL QB. Played great in an upset win against New Orleans in the playoffs. Gets zero credit from Viking Nation for it. Plays shitty in game 1 against Green Bay and fans want him cut. This is what I'm referring to. His leash is beyond short with the fans. Why? No idea. Its not like the team has anything better behind him.
Having said this, its time to draft a QB. Cousins isn't going anywhere with that contract. The sooner fans realize this, the better off they'll be. So get a guy that can sit and learn behind him.
if they dont eat 2021 money on Cousins deal and move on now they wont have any money to rebuild with for the new QB to work with, that 40+ million number for 2022 is staggering and wouldnt leave a team for the young QB. take that ass kicking next year, bring in a vet on a cheap prove it deal to mentor the kid next year and to compete the following and use the 2022 offseason ( and that 40 million in cap savings) to fill what ever holes we still have on our OL and DL so we can use the draft picks that year to start to reload the DBs and WR groups.
and yes he had a decent year last year, but he was still who he has shown to be, mediocracy with a smattering of greatness and WTF moments.
Yeah, there's no way they are paying him $40 mill in 2022. That will not happen.
then they have to trade or cut him this year.... if he is on the roster at the start of the league year in 2021 (4 months from now) his $35 million for 2022 is guaranteed. ( i keep saying 40+ because of his prorated cap, but we eat that anyway) even at 35 million I say take that ass kicking on the cap next year, have another down season in 2021, which will only help draft positions and hopefully the talent coming in... and be ready to start to work on the new team in 2022 instead of still being dealing with Cousins contract while a new QB is trying to build his NFL game and confidence.
if they cut him prior to the start of the next league year the team eats his 21 million in contract for next year as well as the remaining 20 million in signing bonus so its a his of 41 million against 2021 cap. If they could some how trade him they would only eat the 20 million signing bonus next year.. however if they dont cut or trade him prior to Feb 2021, then they are locked in for an additional 35 million for him in 2022, plus the remaining 10 million from that salary cap... they need to admit it was a mistake and turn that potential 76 million over the next 2 years of cap disaster into one year of 41 million in 2021... thats a savings of 35 million (minus whatever we have to eat for a veteran mentor type QB for our future QB to learn under for 2 year) which could be damn damn handy in creating a team for any new QB that we may end up taking.
I think a lot of people are missing what you point out here: if they keep him on the roster past the beginning of the 2021 season, the Vikings are on the hook to pay him the full $56M over 21 AND 2022. There is no "out" in his contract after this offseason. It's crazy - like a Dead Man's Switch for a bomb that Spielman set, which will explode for this team's next couple of years if they try to get rid of Cousins. If people want to keep him in 2021 as a "bridge" QB for some rookie, they have to keep him (or pay him his full salary anyway) in 2022 also.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ Vikergirl said:
So what were the other options at the time? Yeah exactly. I am all for moving on but they can't just yet. Unless they find a taker, they are stuck. They have to draft a new qb and he can sit until Cousins moves on somehow.
This is exactly it. Where the vikes were picking in the first round there were no QB's available. Frankly, there wasnt much available until way late in the draft and you arent going to start a late draft pick on a team that just went to the NFC Championship game. On to Free Agents: Cousins was by far the best choice. Some of you Keenum fans will think he was the better choice but just stop, no he wasnt. Teddy was a HUGE gamble at that time and when you are in your window, which the Vikings were, you dont take a gamble on Teddy. At the time it was the right choice because it was really the only choice. It sucks now, for sure, but if you replay the outcome, it's the same 99/100
there were plenty of people that argued that cousins game wasnt worth the money, and in hindsight... they were right.
there was plenty of evidence that much of what we heard at the time has proven true.
Throws interceptions in clutch moments... check
Locks onto recievers... check
Immobile and doesnt escape pressure.... check
Stats built in garbage time against prevent defenses... check
you can get all that from a gamble or bargain QB and that is exactly what we have gotten and there were quite a few at the time that plenty vocal about it.
Oh I agree, my argument is they had no other realistic options at QB for a team that just went to the NFC Championship game. Cousins was risky at the time because his record wasnt great, my point is there were no good QB's available in the draft that late in the first round or second round that were going to start.
but you dont compound a weakness ( the QB position) by overpaying for a QB and then ultimately having to sacrifice at other positions. we could have gotten Case and Teddy combined for less than what they paid Cousins and been just as competitive IMO. What Cousins makes up for in accuracy he gives up in lack of pocket awareness and mobility to keenum, and Teddy wouldnt have been ready that first year, but he would have been a secure option to compete with a new draft pick if they had let Case go by now.
point is its not as cut and dry that Cousins was the only option IMO, plenty didnt see it that way at the time and history has proven them right... the doubling down on the mistake is where I am fine with blowin this whole thing up and starting over from the GM on down... that was simply a mistake beyond comprehension IMO.
They were never going to pay Keenum starter money because he's not a starter. The year before Minnesota he threw 9 TDs and 11 picks. The year after, he threw 18 tds and 15 picks. I know he was great the one year for us, but fans on this site need to realize Keenum was not the answer at QB. Also, Teddy was a HUGE gamble at the time, so I do think Cousins was the only viable option at that time for a team that just went to the NFCCG.
Cousins was great last year and he sucks now. The contract sucks and it hurts us moving forward, but at the time it was the right move to sign Cousins (contract shouldn't have been $28MM a year I do agree on that).
Cousins was hardly great last year, he was good enough most the time last year, but he made some game losing mistakes that prevent me from saying he was great.
the team could have gotten Keenum on the cheap if they had tried IMO, same with Teddy, what Case did the year before or the year after is immaterial since it was with a different team, we had a guy that took the Vikings to the NFCCG with a horseshoe hanging out of his ass and we traded that for a guy that cost twice as much and did not really do that much more.
oh, and instead of Cousins, if you really didnt want Case, you could have gotten Fitzpatrick, Foles, or Cutler, none of which are overly impressive, but plenty of people were pretty much dead on with Cousins not being the guy either.
I think when Case turned into a pumpkin in the NFCC they decided he wasn't the 'guy' to lead them to a title. Zimmer's D melting down was conveniently forgotten.
And it fit Zimmer's not-very-well-hidden resentment of Case to dump him. I'm not about to claim Case is anything special but you are right in that a real examination of Kirk's history would tell anyone that he was not going to be the 'guy' either.
Yet in interviews at the time Zimmer said they watched all his tape and had the right stuff to be that guy.
Bottom line is Rick and Zim are just stumbling along, the owner laughs his way to the bank while his p.r. machine tells us how wonderful the organization is, and us fans are bagholders year in and year out.
if you must have someone to blame its Spielly. And he has made alot of good moves. I would consider demoting Spielman but offer to retain him and if he no likey we try to improve player evaluation. Zimmer is a very good coach. look at his record.
Look at Andy Reid, he won 60% of his games prior to getting the sod in Mahomes. Zimmer is at 58% with all the challenges he has faced.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Vikergirl said:
I don't think Zimmer wanted Case especially after that comment about the horseshoe and Teddy was hurt by how things were handled. I understand the hesitation with Teddy though. I still think there is one more year of Cousins unless there is a trade partner. They still need to draft a qb.
well if there is one more year there will be 2 more years.
I don't think they make the final year because of the numbers but we'll see. Hoping for improving the OL otherwise well it will continue to go downhill.
|
