Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ AGRforever said:
Whats interesting on the QB front....
Look at how many QBs were thought to be their team's savior over the past few years to flop or at least regress significantly lately.
Listen, if teams want to give up on Sam Darnold or Daniel Jones, the Vikings should be very interested. Those guys can play, they just need a better cast.
You mean just like Cousins?
No more cast offs or band aids please, let's draft our QB of the future and let him learn behind Kirk since we are stuck with his horrible contract anyway. Spend the next few drafts rebuilding the OL and DL and we are off!
Cousins had already proven himself to some extent, its why Minnesota went after him. It was a pretty good team trying to get to the elite level. Sam Darnold is only 23 years old....Daniel Jones the same. If the teams are truly interested in moving on from them and they draft a QB high in next Spring's draft, you could get either relatively inexpensively. Is a 23 year old really a cast off or band aid at the QB spot in the NFL? IMO, it would be worth a shot, especially since they can sit behind Kirk until his contract becomes not so cap hellish for releasing him. I think it could be an option.
Yes, I'd prefer and LOVE to draft a QB and let him sit behind Kirk as you mention. Draft OL and DL, absolutely. My concern is the Vikings are going to end up winning enough to put them out of that probability for the top 3 QBs (Lawrence, Fields or Lance). Its a big drop-off to the next tier. And they really don't have the draft capital to move up without that #2 pick.
There's no fix for the massive, boneheaded contract they gave Kirk this past off-season.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ AGRforever said:
Whats interesting on the QB front....
Look at how many QBs were thought to be their team's savior over the past few years to flop or at least regress significantly lately.
Listen, if teams want to give up on Sam Darnold or Daniel Jones, the Vikings should be very interested. Those guys can play, they just need a better cast.
You mean just like Cousins?
No more cast offs or band aids please, let's draft our QB of the future and let him learn behind Kirk since we are stuck with his horrible contract anyway. Spend the next few drafts rebuilding the OL and DL and we are off!
Cousins had already proven himself to some extent, its why Minnesota went after him. It was a pretty good team trying to get to the elite level. Sam Darnold is only 23 years old....Daniel Jones the same. If the teams are truly interested in moving on from them and they draft a QB high in next Spring's draft, you could get either relatively inexpensively. Is a 23 year old really a cast off or band aid at the QB spot in the NFL? IMO, it would be worth a shot, especially since they can sit behind Kirk until his contract becomes not so cap hellish for releasing him. I think it could be an option.
Yes, I'd prefer and LOVE to draft a QB and let him sit behind Kirk as you mention. Draft OL and DL, absolutely. My concern is the Vikings are going to end up winning enough to put them out of that probability for the top 3 QBs (Lawrence, Fields or Lance). Its a big drop-off to the next tier. And they really don't have the draft capital to move up without that #2 pick.
Cousins has proven that he needs a strong supporting cast to perform at a high level, he cant over come inconsistent OL play and extend plays with his legs either by shifting in the pocket or by escaping the pressure. Honestly he is about as bad as it comes in avoiding the sack. I know those kids have had a rough start to their careers and location plays a large part of that, but I dont want kids that come in already hearing footsteps or feeling like they have to carry the team on their shoulders.
If we are really going to start over, lets move Harry, Rudolph, Thielen, and a couple others before the trade deadline and get some draft picks or other young talents. No reason to hang onto guys that will be past their primes when the rebuild is finished. Let not half ass this, lets go all in on a rebuild. Hell maybe if we show Cousins every intention of moving on he will agree to rework his nasty ass contract in order to be able to be shipped out as well? Then we could grab one of the guys from your list to compete with our draft pick and have a real QB competition for a couple years.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ AGRforever said:
Whats interesting on the QB front....
Look at how many QBs were thought to be their team's savior over the past few years to flop or at least regress significantly lately.
Listen, if teams want to give up on Sam Darnold or Daniel Jones, the Vikings should be very interested. Those guys can play, they just need a better cast.
You mean just like Cousins?
No more cast offs or band aids please, let's draft our QB of the future and let him learn behind Kirk since we are stuck with his horrible contract anyway. Spend the next few drafts rebuilding the OL and DL and we are off!
Cousins had already proven himself to some extent, its why Minnesota went after him. It was a pretty good team trying to get to the elite level. Sam Darnold is only 23 years old....Daniel Jones the same. If the teams are truly interested in moving on from them and they draft a QB high in next Spring's draft, you could get either relatively inexpensively. Is a 23 year old really a cast off or band aid at the QB spot in the NFL? IMO, it would be worth a shot, especially since they can sit behind Kirk until his contract becomes not so cap hellish for releasing him. I think it could be an option.
Yes, I'd prefer and LOVE to draft a QB and let him sit behind Kirk as you mention. Draft OL and DL, absolutely. My concern is the Vikings are going to end up winning enough to put them out of that probability for the top 3 QBs (Lawrence, Fields or Lance). Its a big drop-off to the next tier. And they really don't have the draft capital to move up without that #2 pick.
Cousins has proven that he needs a strong supporting cast to perform at a high level, he cant over come inconsistent OL play and extend plays with his legs either by shifting in the pocket or by escaping the pressure. Honestly he is about as bad as it comes in avoiding the sack. I know those kids have had a rough start to their careers and location plays a large part of that, but I dont want kids that come in already hearing footsteps or feeling like they have to carry the team on their shoulders.
If we are really going to start over, lets move Harry, Rudolph, Thielen, and a couple others before the trade deadline and get some draft picks or other young talents. No reason to hang onto guys that will be past their primes when the rebuild is finished. Let not half ass this, lets go all in on a rebuild. Hell maybe if we show Cousins every intention of moving on he will agree to rework his nasty ass contract in order to be able to be shipped out as well? Then we could grab one of the guys from your list to compete with our draft pick and have a real QB competition for a couple years.
I agree with you, on the fence about moving Thielen though. Plenty of guys to move around and create cap space for free agents. We do have a lot of young talent so might as well embrace it and knock off the mediocrity
The time to do the massive rebuild was LAST offseason. The Vikings let a lot of aging guys go, but they could have done a lot more to set themselves up to really have a banner draft in 2021. Instead we sorta half-assed it and now the Vikings are 1-4, our best player is hurt, we have no second round pick, and the 2 most important positions- Head Coach and QB- are both on longterm deals.
I've defended Rick for a long time. I think he's a good drafter and I'm still not "out" on him. But we are not in a good position right now as a franchise, and Rick sits at the top so...
EDIT- To answer OP, Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, and Jameis Winston all got tiny FA deals last offseason for like $2M each. Kirk is making $35M/yr. No one is giving up anything of value for Cousins on that contract, let alone a first. Total pipe.
Quote: @comet52 said:
There's no fix for the massive, boneheaded contract they gave Kirk this past off-season.
I have mixed feelings about Cousins' contract. I was definitely in favor of signing him: his contract looked bit at the time but was just the going rate for QBs, and those salaries keep rising. I thought he would improve the team around him, which hasn't happened, at least to a very high level.
But I do think his contract is the biggest reason for their cap troubles. They have (and had more last year) many highly-paid defensive players but I think Spielman planned for that years back. I truly think there was a plan, maybe formed when Zimmer was hired, to build a team while they had a QB (Bridgewater) on a rookie contract. I know that would have ended by now, but maybe they expected to have won a championship and have the latitude to take a rebuild year or two, or that Bridgewater might take a team-friendly deal like Brady.
Maybe it wasn't that specific but I see a lot of signs that salary issues have been a scramble ever since Bridgewater was injured, or since they made the unplanned trade for Bradford and his large contract.
Quote: @Hawkvike25 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ AGRforever said:
Whats interesting on the QB front....
Look at how many QBs were thought to be their team's savior over the past few years to flop or at least regress significantly lately.
Listen, if teams want to give up on Sam Darnold or Daniel Jones, the Vikings should be very interested. Those guys can play, they just need a better cast.
You mean just like Cousins?
No more cast offs or band aids please, let's draft our QB of the future and let him learn behind Kirk since we are stuck with his horrible contract anyway. Spend the next few drafts rebuilding the OL and DL and we are off!
Cousins had already proven himself to some extent, its why Minnesota went after him. It was a pretty good team trying to get to the elite level. Sam Darnold is only 23 years old....Daniel Jones the same. If the teams are truly interested in moving on from them and they draft a QB high in next Spring's draft, you could get either relatively inexpensively. Is a 23 year old really a cast off or band aid at the QB spot in the NFL? IMO, it would be worth a shot, especially since they can sit behind Kirk until his contract becomes not so cap hellish for releasing him. I think it could be an option.
Yes, I'd prefer and LOVE to draft a QB and let him sit behind Kirk as you mention. Draft OL and DL, absolutely. My concern is the Vikings are going to end up winning enough to put them out of that probability for the top 3 QBs (Lawrence, Fields or Lance). Its a big drop-off to the next tier. And they really don't have the draft capital to move up without that #2 pick.
Cousins has proven that he needs a strong supporting cast to perform at a high level, he cant over come inconsistent OL play and extend plays with his legs either by shifting in the pocket or by escaping the pressure. Honestly he is about as bad as it comes in avoiding the sack. I know those kids have had a rough start to their careers and location plays a large part of that, but I dont want kids that come in already hearing footsteps or feeling like they have to carry the team on their shoulders.
If we are really going to start over, lets move Harry, Rudolph, Thielen, and a couple others before the trade deadline and get some draft picks or other young talents. No reason to hang onto guys that will be past their primes when the rebuild is finished. Let not half ass this, lets go all in on a rebuild. Hell maybe if we show Cousins every intention of moving on he will agree to rework his nasty ass contract in order to be able to be shipped out as well? Then we could grab one of the guys from your list to compete with our draft pick and have a real QB competition for a couple years.
I agree with you, on the fence about moving Thielen though. Plenty of guys to move around and create cap space for free agents. We do have a lot of young talent so might as well embrace it and knock off the mediocrity
Moving Rudy, Harry, and AT is mostly out of respect for all they have given the franchise, I wouldnt ship them to the highest bidder, I would ask them for a short list of destinations they would like and tell them if they play ball we would do what we could to make sure they land where they would like. They are at the end of their careers and deserve to have a legit shot at a title their last couple years in the league IMO.
Right now I would offer Cousins and our first round pick for their water boy.
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