Quote: @Vikergirl said:
When more value is placed on a door than the life of a human being, that's messed up. I am not surprised by the outcome but I am saddened and disgusted by it. No justice, no accountability, no consequences. When there is that much power without fear that anything negative will happen, the odds that it will be abused increase.
Well stated.
Quote: @IDVikingfan said:
@ Skodin said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
Devil is always in the details... Grand jury records are sealed. What additional information do they have which helped to form their decision? We don't know. Rushing to judgement without that information does not seem wise...
What other information do you need to condemn the poor actions of the judicial system and police here?
The facts of the case are pretty clear.
8% of witnesses potentially corroborated the PD's statement of yelling police and that testimony wasn't even 100% certain they heard it.
What information was gained in grand jury testimony that turned the tide? We don't know. Perhaps they're a bad grand jury or perhaps they have new testimony that provides justification for their decision. Shrug, I don't know.
What tide? Tide for justice? This was setup to protect the failings of the warrant, the judge, the lack of body cameras, the no knock, the poor trained scared PD who sprayed bullets into a room because they were shot back at after they invaded someone's home.
This system could fuck you at some point, you and I both know I can't guarantee it, but you can't guarantee it won't.
Black, white, poor, rich, it doesn't matter, it's all wrong.
RIP Breonna Taylor
RIP Ryan Whitaker (https://heavy.com/news/2020/08/ryan-whitaker/)
Quote: @mblack said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ Skodin said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
Devil is always in the details... Grand jury records are sealed. What additional information do they have which helped to form their decision? We don't know. Rushing to judgement without that information does not seem wise...
What other information do you need to condemn the poor actions of the judicial system and police here?
The facts of the case are pretty clear.
8% of witnesses potentially corroborated the PD's statement of yelling police and that testimony wasn't even 100% certain they heard it.
What information was gained in grand jury testimony that turned the tide? We don't know. Perhaps they're a bad grand jury or perhaps they have new testimony that provides justification for their decision. Shrug, I don't know.
The mere fact that you seem OK with not knowing and stating so multiple times and trusting a seemingly vastly unpopular outcome is disturbing. One would think you would at the very least be advocating for clarity. Everything we know so far and the outcome all call for a review of the system or at the very least more clarity. From your posts above it seems society should just accept the outcome because... "we don't know" what happened behind "closed doors" even though everything about it is questionable.
Yeah, I guess I should run with the rest of the herd. No need to wonder if there may be important exculpatory information in the grand jury testimony, or not. The crowd says they're guilty so hang em high... Mob justice woohoo.
This is an internet discussion group. I'm open minded as I haven't followed the case as closely as others, and merely wondering if there were certain facts that were used by the grand jury that we don't know. Could be, maybe not. You're convinced you have the full picture, I'm convinced that I don't have the full story. Our opinions differ, no big deal.
Quote: @IDVikingfan said:
@ mblack said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ Skodin said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
Devil is always in the details... Grand jury records are sealed. What additional information do they have which helped to form their decision? We don't know. Rushing to judgement without that information does not seem wise...
What other information do you need to condemn the poor actions of the judicial system and police here?
The facts of the case are pretty clear.
8% of witnesses potentially corroborated the PD's statement of yelling police and that testimony wasn't even 100% certain they heard it.
What information was gained in grand jury testimony that turned the tide? We don't know. Perhaps they're a bad grand jury or perhaps they have new testimony that provides justification for their decision. Shrug, I don't know.
The mere fact that you seem OK with not knowing and stating so multiple times and trusting a seemingly vastly unpopular outcome is disturbing. One would think you would at the very least be advocating for clarity. Everything we know so far and the outcome all call for a review of the system or at the very least more clarity. From your posts above it seems society should just accept the outcome because... "we don't know" what happened behind "closed doors" even though everything about it is questionable.
Yeah, I guess I should run with the rest of the herd. No need to wonder if there may be important exculpatory information in the grand jury testimony, or not. The crowd says they're guilty so hang em high... Mob justice woohoo.
This is an internet discussion group. I'm open minded as I haven't followed the case as closely as others, and merely wondering if there were certain facts that were used by the grand jury that we don't know. Could be, maybe not. You're convinced you have the full picture, I'm convinced that I don't have the full story. Our opinions differ, no big deal.
Nobody is asking you to run with anything.
At the bold: Exactly what I am wondering why you are not asking the questions. All you said was "I don't know". I asked why aren't you advocation/asking ask for answers/clarity? So it seems you actually agreed with me doubting your "limited" stance.
I am not convinced I have a full picture. I never said that. I said the outcome created more questions than answers. Questions I would like answered. On the other hand you are content with "I don't know" or... "the grand jury may know something we don't". So again, how about asking to know what went into the decision?
Lastly
Quote:I'm convinced that I don't have the full story.
And you are content not having the full story. I on the other hand like many others are not content and want the full story. That is my whole point.
Quote: @Skodin said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
Devil is always in the details... Grand jury records are sealed. What additional information do they have which helped to form their decision? We don't know. Rushing to judgement without that information does not seem wise...
Right, I understand the sealed records but if you want all this to go away wear a @#$%&*(*&%%# body cam. I'd be more on the cops side (since they're returning fire) if they had a video of them saying "Louisville Police put your hands up" even though I disagree with no knock warrants. But if it is true that 11/12 witnesses said they didn't say who they were and their is not audio, you have to go with the 11 vs the 1 don't you?
True, the 11/12 would suggest cops didn't identify. Wonder if there is more in grand jury testimony on this issue?
Imagine if there were children in those rooms that they sprayed numerous bullets into
There were, weren't there? Pretty sure I read that a pregnant woman and a child lived in one of the apartments that was shot up by police. I could be wrong though.
Quote: @mblack said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ mblack said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ Skodin said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
Devil is always in the details... Grand jury records are sealed. What additional information do they have which helped to form their decision? We don't know. Rushing to judgement without that information does not seem wise...
What other information do you need to condemn the poor actions of the judicial system and police here?
The facts of the case are pretty clear.
8% of witnesses potentially corroborated the PD's statement of yelling police and that testimony wasn't even 100% certain they heard it.
What information was gained in grand jury testimony that turned the tide? We don't know. Perhaps they're a bad grand jury or perhaps they have new testimony that provides justification for their decision. Shrug, I don't know.
The mere fact that you seem OK with not knowing and stating so multiple times and trusting a seemingly vastly unpopular outcome is disturbing. One would think you would at the very least be advocating for clarity. Everything we know so far and the outcome all call for a review of the system or at the very least more clarity. From your posts above it seems society should just accept the outcome because... "we don't know" what happened behind "closed doors" even though everything about it is questionable.
Yeah, I guess I should run with the rest of the herd. No need to wonder if there may be important exculpatory information in the grand jury testimony, or not. The crowd says they're guilty so hang em high... Mob justice woohoo.
This is an internet discussion group. I'm open minded as I haven't followed the case as closely as others, and merely wondering if there were certain facts that were used by the grand jury that we don't know. Could be, maybe not. You're convinced you have the full picture, I'm convinced that I don't have the full story. Our opinions differ, no big deal.
Nobody is asking you to run with anything.
At the bold: Exactly what I am wondering why you are not asking the questions. All you said was "I don't know". I asked why aren't you advocation/asking ask for answers/clarity? So it seems you actually agreed with me doubting your "limited" stance.
I am not convinced I have a full picture. I never said that. I said the outcome created more questions than answers. Questions I would like answered. On the other hand you are content with "I don't know" or... "the grand jury may know something we don't". So again, how about asking to know what went into the decision?
Lastly
Quote:I'm convinced that I don't have the full story.
And you are content not having the full story. I on the other hand like many others are not content and want the full story. That is my whole point.
Interesting mblack, you make a host of assumptions about me, my thoughts, and my degree of contentment. You do know what they say about assumptions... You're wrong on my views. I merely wondered what was hidden in the grand jury testimony, nothing more, nothing less. You're reading and assuming way too much into my limited commentary.
I will do more reading on the subject.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ Skodin said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
Devil is always in the details... Grand jury records are sealed. What additional information do they have which helped to form their decision? We don't know. Rushing to judgement without that information does not seem wise...
Right, I understand the sealed records but if you want all this to go away wear a @#$%&*(*&%%# body cam. I'd be more on the cops side (since they're returning fire) if they had a video of them saying "Louisville Police put your hands up" even though I disagree with no knock warrants. But if it is true that 11/12 witnesses said they didn't say who they were and their is not audio, you have to go with the 11 vs the 1 don't you?
True, the 11/12 would suggest cops didn't identify. Wonder if there is more in grand jury testimony on this issue?
Imagine if there were children in those rooms that they sprayed numerous bullets into
There were, weren't there? Pretty sure I read that a pregnant woman and a child lived in one of the apartments that was shot up by police. I could be wrong though.
I am not sure, I was more referring to Breonna's residence. But yes, there were neighbors who also had bullets penetrate their homes. Could have been worse.
Imagine being her, a first responder in the height of a full blown pandemic waking up to a couple minutes of sheer terror then to be shot in your own hallway because the system can't seem to act right.
It's terrible, just like Ryan Whitaker.
Hard to be respectful of law and order when it seems to do nothing but punish you, even when you are innocent.
How any 2nd Amendment fanatics aren't up in arms screaming about this is beyond me. The fact that they aren't (or at least the vast majority) tells me all I need to know about them.
^ Agreed. 2nd amendment fanatics were quiet on Philando Castille as well.
I've been so tired, angry and disgusted by all of this that I could hardly comment. I'm going to still need some time.
Seriously. Can you imagine how bad the police back in the 60s and 70s could get away with shit?? No DNA testing, no body cameras, no smart phone with video. It was their word against 'criminals'. They could frame anyone they wanted. Could assault anyone regardless without fear of being video'd.
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