Quote: @medaille said:
I’m out of the loop on what people are saying about Fauci.
I think the only correct response is to assume all people in
Washington are likely corrupt and well versed at legalese where they make
persuasive sounding statements that are based on half truths and preying on
your biases. I think non-sociopathic
people probably struggle with having a long career in Washington and it self-selects
for the most corruptible of the candidates.
I think you need to make them show their work before believing each
specific statement they make.
I have a strong faith in the scientific method over long
periods of time, but I’m skeptical of most scientific claims. It’s just too easy to do bad science, there’s
financial and career incentives towards rapidly churning out new scientific
claims, the peer review process isn’t adequate, and the science that gets to us
comes via a sensationalistic media.
I think it’s a fallacy to put your trust in “experts” when
they could just as easily be salespeople for whoever’s paying them. I think far too often we’re asked to believe
experts at face value, while they give us the version that’s too dumbed down to
verify. I think people should put ignore
all experts, and instead focus on the ideas and just figure out for themselves
what the best ideas are. In terms of
politics we need to stop paying attention to who is delivering the message, and
pay attention to the individual policies.
I think experts should be focused on helping us to understand what’s
going on, so that we can make informed decisions, and less focused on telling
us what to do.
well stated. As I said above, we should all read and research as much as possible, especially when constitutional freedoms are being threatened. Look at the mask hysteria. Science shows it is bad to constantly wear a mask. And they offer little protection as worn by a large majority of the population. But hysteria, media and "scientists" have encouraged it. Now it is largely law of the land.
I love what you say about scientific method versus scientific claims.
Quote: @Skodin said:
@ greediron said:
follow the money. He is in deep with Gates and required vaccines. He has been a key cog in DC for a long time.
So an internet conspiracy theory destroys the trust in institutions such as the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease. Unreal. We deserve what is coming to us.
He has been a key cog in DC for a long time because he is non partisan and known as one of the best minds on the planet regarding studies in this space. He is a trusted individual. Trusted by Reagan, Bush, W, Obama, and Clinton. He was a key mind in the HIV/AIDS epidemic, and has a track record that is beyond impressive.
Yes, let’s throw that out the window because the president doesn’t like him upstaging him and that internet warriors love to throw more fuel on the fire. The same circlejerk of voices who also believe in Flat Earth, 5G Coronavirus, and Chemtrails
We can question our institutions, we can push back on institutions, but to discredit them over internet memes is disgusting. Reuters (a long bastion of fake news) has debunked Fauci - Gates engagement regarding board positions, but fuck Reuters, what do they know
lol, memes. You sir are a peach.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
Gates pocket is better than Trump's, Bill is a much better businessman and biggley richer too.
somebody advising the president as well as congress on this matter should be convicted as a criminal if they are in anybodies pocket.
That was sarcasm, it took me awhile to figure out the implied conspiracy, and find an absurd argument to fit it.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
When science gets politicized, that's when the problems start. If you don't understand science or don't want to, I can't stop a person. Inconvenient truths seem to be a problem for both sides of the spectrum.
Having said this: I'm done. Open up the f$%king country. Its time to smartly, step by step, get this economy going again.
i dont think the scientists have proven that they are the experts on this matter yet. i certainly dont think the politicians from either side are trusting the science of the issue, rather using what they think will benefit their team come election time. I think the incovenient truth is that we dont know the truth about much of what affects us as Americans and both team red and team blue want it that way.
and yes...we certainly agree on one thing and that is to smartly start opening the country. I certainly hope they do a better job than just saying ok, back to work. we still need social distancing guidelines and occupancy restrictions.
Scientists and doctors are the experts, its why we have a CDC. What's proven is how it spreads, the projections are the variable. When did politicians bother to trust anything that doesn't serve them in some way?
We start taking direction from politicians on science and medicine, and mankind is on the slipperiest of slopes. As always, the truth is somewhere in the middle of the extremes.
but as you say, when those scientists and their findings are not about revealing the truth but instead used to support theories and the science gets manipulated... that is what is getting questioned. are the experts working for science and the betterment of mankind, or for the politicians and campaign donors that approve their funding?
Have you spoken with many Scientists? You often have to have a really good understanding of the topic, before you can really understand what they say. In your eyes how are you proven to be an expert in a scientific field. When I hear him speaking about future scenarios I know he is talking about probability statements, not promises about miracles happening to make you feel confidant.
JFC... hes not speaking latin, I understand enough to know what he is saying. I dont need to be an expert in his field to question him either, i can look at his recent record on matters and have enough to question his "science".
I am not saying he is always wrong or not to be trusted, but I certainly wouldnt say he is 100% the final authority on this shit and his opinions based on the unknowns should be weighed against common sense and realities.
The guy is hardly beyond question.... nobody is perfect or above scrutiny...even if they are a leader in their field.
Okay I guess you don't, so no use talking about it. You got this, and about the meat prices... edited out some inflammatory crap, to show the casual observer might not know it all.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Skodin said:
@ greediron said:
follow the money. He is in deep with Gates and required vaccines. He has been a key cog in DC for a long time.
So an internet conspiracy theory destroys the trust in institutions such as the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease. Unreal. We deserve what is coming to us.
He has been a key cog in DC for a long time because he is non partisan and known as one of the best minds on the planet regarding studies in this space. He is a trusted individual. Trusted by Reagan, Bush, W, Obama, and Clinton. He was a key mind in the HIV/AIDS epidemic, and has a track record that is beyond impressive.
Yes, let’s throw that out the window because the president doesn’t like him upstaging him and that internet warriors love to throw more fuel on the fire. The same circlejerk of voices who also believe in Flat Earth, 5G Coronavirus, and Chemtrails
We can question our institutions, we can push back on institutions, but to discredit them over internet memes is disgusting. Reuters (a long bastion of fake news) has debunked Fauci - Gates engagement regarding board positions, but fuck Reuters, what do they know
see, you are part of the problem, because somebody questions this shit you lump them in with flat earthers... its responses like that are the reason people get to their boiling points and wont listen to counter arguments with an open mind.
why is it wrong to question Fauci, anybody thats been in DC that long has made some serious friends and those friendships should be questioned. if you want to blindly follow that is your prerogative, but it doesnt make those that dont follow you crazies.
So sensitive in sensitive topics, I wasn’t referring to you I was referring the first response of “follow the money . . He is in deep with Gates and required vaccines”. Yes that’s conspiracy talk end of story.
I did say in my OP, we can question our institutions, we can push back, but to think that a bunch of internet sleuthing is going to out a man who has spent over 30 years leading the country and planet in diseases is a joke. It’s a sad joke and state of affairs that everyone is fucking expert now because they read “journalistic” pieces lacking any sort of integrity.
It’s a joke, you don’t have to take everything Fauci says as gospel, as he and many other scientists are trying to figure out this disease of course they will be wrong in their hypothesis, but to immediately POINT TO GATES and his plan for world domination via vaccines is pathetic.
I expect him to be wrong, erring on the side of caution because his job/career is based on an upcoming election and being “right”.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ Skodin said:
@ greediron said:
follow the money. He is in deep with Gates and required vaccines. He has been a key cog in DC for a long time.
So an internet conspiracy theory destroys the trust in institutions such as the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease. Unreal. We deserve what is coming to us.
He has been a key cog in DC for a long time because he is non partisan and known as one of the best minds on the planet regarding studies in this space. He is a trusted individual. Trusted by Reagan, Bush, W, Obama, and Clinton. He was a key mind in the HIV/AIDS epidemic, and has a track record that is beyond impressive.
Yes, let’s throw that out the window because the president doesn’t like him upstaging him and that internet warriors love to throw more fuel on the fire. The same circlejerk of voices who also believe in Flat Earth, 5G Coronavirus, and Chemtrails
We can question our institutions, we can push back on institutions, but to discredit them over internet memes is disgusting. Reuters (a long bastion of fake news) has debunked Fauci - Gates engagement regarding board positions, but fuck Reuters, what do they know
lol, memes. You sir are a peach.
Please present your list of sources/references about Fauci being in the pocket with Gates and required vaccines. Let’s see your sources and judge them on the merit of their information.
Quote: @Skodin said:
@ greediron said:
@ Skodin said:
@ greediron said:
follow the money. He is in deep with Gates and required vaccines. He has been a key cog in DC for a long time.
So an internet conspiracy theory destroys the trust in institutions such as the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease. Unreal. We deserve what is coming to us.
He has been a key cog in DC for a long time because he is non partisan and known as one of the best minds on the planet regarding studies in this space. He is a trusted individual. Trusted by Reagan, Bush, W, Obama, and Clinton. He was a key mind in the HIV/AIDS epidemic, and has a track record that is beyond impressive.
Yes, let’s throw that out the window because the president doesn’t like him upstaging him and that internet warriors love to throw more fuel on the fire. The same circlejerk of voices who also believe in Flat Earth, 5G Coronavirus, and Chemtrails
We can question our institutions, we can push back on institutions, but to discredit them over internet memes is disgusting. Reuters (a long bastion of fake news) has debunked Fauci - Gates engagement regarding board positions, but fuck Reuters, what do they know
lol, memes. You sir are a peach.
Please present your list of sources/references about Fauci being in the pocket with Gates and required vaccines. Let’s see your sources and judge them on the merit of their information.
Sure. i will get back to you on it. Since you are so convincing and rational when it comes to dealing with politics.
Quote: @medaille said:
I’m out of the loop on what people are saying about Fauci.
I think the only correct response is to assume all people in
Washington are likely corrupt and well versed at legalese where they make
persuasive sounding statements that are based on half truths and preying on
your biases. I think non-sociopathic
people probably struggle with having a long career in Washington and it self-selects
for the most corruptible of the candidates.
I think you need to make them show their work before believing each
specific statement they make.
I have a strong faith in the scientific method over long
periods of time, but I’m skeptical of most scientific claims. It’s just too easy to do bad science, there’s
financial and career incentives towards rapidly churning out new scientific
claims, the peer review process isn’t adequate, and the science that gets to us
comes via a sensationalistic media.
I think it’s a fallacy to put your trust in “experts” when
they could just as easily be salespeople for whoever’s paying them. I think far too often we’re asked to believe
experts at face value, while they give us the version that’s too dumbed down to
verify. I think people should put ignore
all experts, and instead focus on the ideas and just figure out for themselves
what the best ideas are. In terms of
politics we need to stop paying attention to who is delivering the message, and
pay attention to the individual policies.
I think experts should be focused on helping us to understand what’s
going on, so that we can make informed decisions, and less focused on telling
us what to do.
Where does the line of questioning of truth or institutions stop then? Do you not take your doctor, dentist, accountant, lawyer’s advice when given to you? Do you prefer that people ignore those “expert” opinions and just do what they want? Really? Have you not see the poor judgement we as a society have when it comes to facts/truth, being objective instead of a constant barrage of subjective?
I agree with you on policies versus the politician, but policy, legislation, are not objective facts. They are words pushed back and forth between attorneys based on their “take” of the rules. I have 3 attorneys providing work pro bono on my start up, 3 that average $750 an hour for their services (Greenwich, San Francisco, Atlanta timber), trust me, I see the good ones (who want to get things done) and the bad ones (who want to collect fees). I have worked with the DC elite law offices regarding legal services for organizations such as the FDA and EPA and their crazy billable hours needed for Beltway politics, it’s disgusting. Trust me the bureaucracy of those organizations is just as maddening and frustrating. It’s a fucking mess
One of the reasons this country is in such a mess is because 98% of the Congressional members are attorneys. Attorneys with limited time and a job clock ticking the moment they take office, which means whatever limited time they have is listening to donors and special interests. Even the largest of names, brands in politics are all subject to it, it’s created this mess we now have.
Fauci, the CDC, the NIH, are not politicians, we need some level of trust in their opinion and their honesty about what they do and do not know.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
When science gets politicized, that's when the problems start. If you don't understand science or don't want to, I can't stop a person. Inconvenient truths seem to be a problem for both sides of the spectrum.
Having said this: I'm done. Open up the f$%king country. Its time to smartly, step by step, get this economy going again.
i dont think the scientists have proven that they are the experts on this matter yet. i certainly dont think the politicians from either side are trusting the science of the issue, rather using what they think will benefit their team come election time. I think the incovenient truth is that we dont know the truth about much of what affects us as Americans and both team red and team blue want it that way.
and yes...we certainly agree on one thing and that is to smartly start opening the country. I certainly hope they do a better job than just saying ok, back to work. we still need social distancing guidelines and occupancy restrictions.
Scientists and doctors are the experts, its why we have a CDC. What's proven is how it spreads, the projections are the variable. When did politicians bother to trust anything that doesn't serve them in some way?
We start taking direction from politicians on science and medicine, and mankind is on the slipperiest of slopes. As always, the truth is somewhere in the middle of the extremes.
Frankly, I'm not sure that we DO know how it spreads. But the parts of the conversation that you left out (not accusing you of anything malicious or even intentional) are the real questions that matter: how "deadly" is it? If it is simply a more contagious version of the flu (which I haven't seen any evidence that would contradict that assumption), that should play a BIG part in the decisions that politicians make. As you said, the "projections" are variable, which- in essence- means that nobody really knows.
One pundit asked a very good question: when we look back at 2020, will any more people have died than normally die in a given year? I'll be curious to see the actual data on that.
Quote: @pumpf said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
When science gets politicized, that's when the problems start. If you don't understand science or don't want to, I can't stop a person. Inconvenient truths seem to be a problem for both sides of the spectrum.
Having said this: I'm done. Open up the f$%king country. Its time to smartly, step by step, get this economy going again.
i dont think the scientists have proven that they are the experts on this matter yet. i certainly dont think the politicians from either side are trusting the science of the issue, rather using what they think will benefit their team come election time. I think the incovenient truth is that we dont know the truth about much of what affects us as Americans and both team red and team blue want it that way.
and yes...we certainly agree on one thing and that is to smartly start opening the country. I certainly hope they do a better job than just saying ok, back to work. we still need social distancing guidelines and occupancy restrictions.
Scientists and doctors are the experts, its why we have a CDC. What's proven is how it spreads, the projections are the variable. When did politicians bother to trust anything that doesn't serve them in some way?
We start taking direction from politicians on science and medicine, and mankind is on the slipperiest of slopes. As always, the truth is somewhere in the middle of the extremes.
Frankly, I'm not sure that we DO know how it spreads. But the parts of the conversation that you left out (not accusing you of anything malicious or even intentional) are the real questions that matter: how "deadly" is it? If it is simply a more contagious version of the flu (which I haven't seen any evidence that would contradict that assumption), that should play a BIG part in the decisions that politicians make. As you said, the "projections" are variable, which- in essence- means that nobody really knows.
One pundit asked a very good question: when we look back at 2020, will any more people have died than normally die in a given year? I'll be curious to see the actual data on that.
I guess if the same number/quota of people die in 2020 like past years then it justifies us as a people not making an effort to save any lives or reduce the deaths in our society if we could do so by limiting the deaths by covid. Who cares about improving the quality of life?) anyways? Heck if this were a more contagious version of the flu that means it replaced the flu then "obviously". I am sure covid-19 cannot coexist with the flu.
Quote: @pumpf said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
When science gets politicized, that's when the problems start. If you don't understand science or don't want to, I can't stop a person. Inconvenient truths seem to be a problem for both sides of the spectrum.
Having said this: I'm done. Open up the f$%king country. Its time to smartly, step by step, get this economy going again.
i dont think the scientists have proven that they are the experts on this matter yet. i certainly dont think the politicians from either side are trusting the science of the issue, rather using what they think will benefit their team come election time. I think the incovenient truth is that we dont know the truth about much of what affects us as Americans and both team red and team blue want it that way.
and yes...we certainly agree on one thing and that is to smartly start opening the country. I certainly hope they do a better job than just saying ok, back to work. we still need social distancing guidelines and occupancy restrictions.
Scientists and doctors are the experts, its why we have a CDC. What's proven is how it spreads, the projections are the variable. When did politicians bother to trust anything that doesn't serve them in some way?
We start taking direction from politicians on science and medicine, and mankind is on the slipperiest of slopes. As always, the truth is somewhere in the middle of the extremes.
Frankly, I'm not sure that we DO know how it spreads. But the parts of the conversation that you left out (not accusing you of anything malicious or even intentional) are the real questions that matter: how "deadly" is it? If it is simply a more contagious version of the flu (which I haven't seen any evidence that would contradict that assumption), that should play a BIG part in the decisions that politicians make. As you said, the "projections" are variable, which- in essence- means that nobody really knows.
One pundit asked a very good question: when we look back at 2020, will any more people have died than normally die in a given year? I'll be curious to see the actual data on that.
You hit a valuable point here. One that people like Fauci and other public health officials agree with, they aren’t certain how it spreads. Why it affects some but not others. I’ve lost two people to this, one who was older battling pneumonia, the other who was a 35 year old women of good health. That’s the point right now, despite everything we have gone through we haven’t nailed this down yet. The only thing officials are confident in, FACEMASKS WORK (looking at Japan). Sadly despite this fact, even sane people who aren’t looking to storm the state capital so they can get a haircut, haven’t also taken facemasks in public serious enough.
Let’s just say that 100,000 people over 2020 die from Corona, that number wasn’t the projection if we did nothing, it was the result of doing something. It doesn’t take a stable genius to understand that by doing nothing, the number would be higher.
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