I said several times last night you have to have a trade partner. Just because the fans say trade up and possibly Rick agrees, it is not always that simple. Takes two to tango.
Quote: @rf54 said:
It amazes me how crazy fans will get without understanding what is going on in the background
...or, once given the background, refuse to believe it because it doesn't sync with their narrative that Rick Spielman is a saboteur conjured by the ghost of Mike Lynn.
Rick also mentioned that Andre Patterson has some DLine talent he wants, that fits the athletic traits they are looking for, and that they will be targeting those guys in Day 3. We will see. Definitely disappointed that we couldn't get a deal done for Gallimore or Elliott.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
3T imo was our biggest need going into the draft. Wasn't sure how/when it would be addressed. So far it hasn't.
Seems like it wasn't for lack of trying. Or avoiding drafting for need and not going BPA.
All that said, was this 3rd rd corner really that much better than the DL left? Or Gladney in the second?
I'm not a draftnik and cant answer that definitively.
Yes. And I've been in the Fix the Damn 3T camp since Day 1. Once Elliott went there was a big drop-off to the next Tier of DTs.
Meanwhile, Dantzler had a mid to high 2nd Round grade. He needs time to develop, even in a Zone, but actually has a higher ceiling than Gladney, IMO.
I think of it like Hughes+Gladney for one spot (ideally Slot), Hill+Dantzler for one spot (ideally the Man/Zone CB role that Richard Sherman plays in Cover 3). That's the worst case scenario. I could easily see 3 out of the 4 starting.
Add a vet now or after cutdowns to add some savvy veteran leadership and lessons on drinking wine ala Newman and this Unit is looking much better from a depth and competition standpoint.
But missing out on Elliott stings like a bitch. And there's no rotational DE. I said all along this team couldn't plug that many holes in a single offseason, and they didn't. We just have to accept it.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
Dantzler is a question mark because who knows how fast he is, but those first three picks were goddam gold.
I watched the PFF coverage of the draft last night. One of them said Dantzler tried to put on weight for the combine and it was really bad weight (as he had the worst bad fat index of the CBs at the combine) and that it affected his 40. Supposedly, he has dropped that bad weight and that is why his next time on campus was fast. They said if you watch his film, you realize his combine time is an outlier. He needs to get into a legit NFL training regime.
Quote: @VikingOracle said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Dantzler is a question mark because who knows how fast he is, but those first three picks were goddam gold.
I watched the PFF coverage of the draft last night. One of them said Dantzler tried to put on weight for the combine and it was really bad weight (as he had the worst bad fat index of the CBs at the combine) and that it affected his 40. Supposedly, he has dropped that bad weight and that is why his next time on campus was fast. They said if you watch his film, you realize his combine time is an outlier. He needs to get into a legit NFL training regime.
That's interesting...and makes a lot of sense.
Quote: @kmillard said:
@ purplefaithful said:
3T imo was our biggest need going into the draft. Wasn't sure how/when it would be addressed. So far it hasn't.
Seems like it wasn't for lack of trying. Or just plain drafting for need and not going BPA.
All that said, was this 3rd corner really that much better than the DL left? Or Gladney?
I'm not a draftnik and cant answer that definitively.
They could have traded up but rick covets his 7th round garbage too much. I bet they end up with even more 7th rounders before the day is over. I wanted no picks after round 5 and they had the ammo to move up into the 2 and at least the 3rd a few times. Quality over quantity.
I can't stand how often Rick bails in the mid Rounds to pick late.
But if you think he was going to fill all of the holes on the team in one Draft you're not being realistic. Rick's best Draft ever yielded Waynes, Kendricks,
Hunter and Diggs. Guess what? Only Kendricks was a Day 1 Starter.
Going back to 2012 the most Day 1 Starters Spielman has procured is 2 (Kalil/Smith, Cook/Elflien). 2. Not 4. 2.
Minnesota lost 7 Starters and 2 heavy rotation players (I lump Sendejo & Kearse together). They've added 2 Starters, which is being kind to Sharpe, and 1 rotational player. On top of that they needed new (i.e., not on the Roster) talent at LG and 3T as well.
Any way you slice it Minnesota either needed at least 4 Day 1 Starters out of the Draft OR a combination of Rookies and stretches like Watts and Boyd to step up. AND they don't replace Elf at LG. AND they have no rotational DEs. AND they have zero Safety depth.
It was never, ever going to happen all in one Draft. No matter how great. Someone is likely to chime in with success stories like Harris, Weatherly, Odenigbo, etc. Not a single one of them was a consistent rotational contributor as a Rookie. While Rick is likely to find more contributors today and in UDFA, history says they won't help the team in 2020.
Minnesota isn't done. They have enough money for a Tier 2 FA (Everson may actually be the best one still available), or a couple of Tier 3 guys. They can still swing a trade. Roster cuts could produce an unexpected gem. This team is not in danger of failing to field a full Roster. It realistically never had a chance at being as good on paper as last year's Roster, no matter how well Rick did in the Draft.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
@ kmillard said:
@ purplefaithful said:
3T imo was our biggest need going into the draft. Wasn't sure how/when it would be addressed. So far it hasn't.
Seems like it wasn't for lack of trying. Or just plain drafting for need and not going BPA.
All that said, was this 3rd corner really that much better than the DL left? Or Gladney?
I'm not a draftnik and cant answer that definitively.
They could have traded up but rick covets his 7th round garbage too much. I bet they end up with even more 7th rounders before the day is over. I wanted no picks after round 5 and they had the ammo to move up into the 2 and at least the 3rd a few times. Quality over quantity.
I can't stand how often Rick bails in the mid Rounds to pick late.
But if you think he was going to fill all of the holes on the team in one Draft you're not being realistic. Rick's best Draft ever yielded Waynes, Kendricks,
Hunter and Diggs. Guess what? Only Kendricks was a Day 1 Starter.
Going back to 2012 the most Day 1 Starters Spielman has procured is 2 (Kalil/Smith, Cook/Elflien). 2. Not 4. 2.
Minnesota lost 7 Starters and 2 heavy rotation players (I lump Sendejo & Kearse together). They've added 2 Starters, which is being kind to Sharpe, and 1 rotational player. On top of that they needed new (i.e., not on the Roster) talent at LG and 3T as well.
Any way you slice it Minnesota either needed at least 4 Day 1 Starters out of the Draft OR a combination of Rookies and stretches like Watts and Boyd to step up. AND they don't replace Elf at LG. AND they have no rotational DEs. AND they have zero Safety depth.
It was never, ever going to happen all in one Draft. No matter how great. Someone is likely to chime in with success stories like Harris, Weatherly, Odenigbo, etc. Not a single one of them was a consistent rotational contributor as a Rookie. While Rick is likely to find more contributors today and in UDFA, history says they won't help the team in 2020.
Minnesota isn't done. They have enough money for a Tier 2 FA (Everson may actually be the best one still available), or a couple of Tier 3 guys. They can still swing a trade. Roster cuts could produce an unexpected gem. This team is not in danger of failing to field a full Roster. It realistically never had a chance at being as good on paper as last year's Roster, no matter how well Rick did in the Draft.
OH I get that. I never thought they would fill all their needs, but I feel the odds are better stacked at the top for better ROI in the draft. Would have loved to see them do what the saints did with us and trade up for Madebuike to add to the other picks and I would be ok with that. Hope they don't get too cute today and we get a backup long snapper and holder.
Quote: @kmillard said:
@ FSUVike said:
@ kmillard said:
@ purplefaithful said:
3T imo was our biggest need going into the draft. Wasn't sure how/when it would be addressed. So far it hasn't.
Seems like it wasn't for lack of trying. Or just plain drafting for need and not going BPA.
All that said, was this 3rd corner really that much better than the DL left? Or Gladney?
I'm not a draftnik and cant answer that definitively.
They could have traded up but rick covets his 7th round garbage too much. I bet they end up with even more 7th rounders before the day is over. I wanted no picks after round 5 and they had the ammo to move up into the 2 and at least the 3rd a few times. Quality over quantity.
I can't stand how often Rick bails in the mid Rounds to pick late.
But if you think he was going to fill all of the holes on the team in one Draft you're not being realistic. Rick's best Draft ever yielded Waynes, Kendricks,
Hunter and Diggs. Guess what? Only Kendricks was a Day 1 Starter.
Going back to 2012 the most Day 1 Starters Spielman has procured is 2 (Kalil/Smith, Cook/Elflien). 2. Not 4. 2.
Minnesota lost 7 Starters and 2 heavy rotation players (I lump Sendejo & Kearse together). They've added 2 Starters, which is being kind to Sharpe, and 1 rotational player. On top of that they needed new (i.e., not on the Roster) talent at LG and 3T as well.
Any way you slice it Minnesota either needed at least 4 Day 1 Starters out of the Draft OR a combination of Rookies and stretches like Watts and Boyd to step up. AND they don't replace Elf at LG. AND they have no rotational DEs. AND they have zero Safety depth.
It was never, ever going to happen all in one Draft. No matter how great. Someone is likely to chime in with success stories like Harris, Weatherly, Odenigbo, etc. Not a single one of them was a consistent rotational contributor as a Rookie. While Rick is likely to find more contributors today and in UDFA, history says they won't help the team in 2020.
Minnesota isn't done. They have enough money for a Tier 2 FA (Everson may actually be the best one still available), or a couple of Tier 3 guys. They can still swing a trade. Roster cuts could produce an unexpected gem. This team is not in danger of failing to field a full Roster. It realistically never had a chance at being as good on paper as last year's Roster, no matter how well Rick did in the Draft.
OH I get that. I never thought they would fill all their needs, but I feel the odds are better stacked at the top for better ROI in the draft. Would have loved to see them do what the saints did with us and trade up for Madebuike to add to the other picks and I would be ok with that. Hope they don't get too cute today and we get a backup long snapper and holder.
Totally agree with this but it takes two to tango. We'd all be on here bitching up a storm if Rick overpaid to move up to get 1 kid with so many holes left on the team. If the Browns hadn't taken Elliott this would have been my favorite Draft ever.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
@ purplefaithful said:
3T imo was our biggest need going into the draft. Wasn't sure how/when it would be addressed. So far it hasn't.
Seems like it wasn't for lack of trying. Or avoiding drafting for need and not going BPA.
All that said, was this 3rd rd corner really that much better than the DL left? Or Gladney in the second?
I'm not a draftnik and cant answer that definitively.
Yes. And I've been in the Fix the Damn 3T camp since Day 1. Once Elliott went there was a big drop-off to the next Tier of DTs.
Meanwhile, Dantzler had a mid to high 2nd Round grade. He needs time to develop, even in a Zone, but actually has a higher ceiling than Gladney, IMO.
I think of it like Hughes+Gladney for one spot (ideally Slot), Hill+Dantzler for one spot (ideally the Man/Zone CB role that Richard Sherman plays in Cover 3). That's the worst case scenario. I could easily see 3 out of the 4 starting.
Add a vet now or after cutdowns to add some savvy veteran leadership and lessons on drinking wine ala Newman and this Unit is looking much better from a depth and competition standpoint.
But missing out on Elliott stings like a bitch. And there's no rotational DE. I said all along this team couldn't plug that many holes in a single offseason, and they didn't. We just have to accept it. Yea I really wanted Elliott and he went right before us. But as stated in the original post spelly tried his best to move up for a 3T like Gallimore/Elliott but had no takers. I think it is evident that those were the 2 we were looking at as evidence by going CB next and then trading down after...no more potential 3T's but not lack of effort.
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