Quote: @mjollnir_k said:
Cripes just because they are not advertising their intentions doesn't mean they are not planning. Right now Free Agency is at a lull. There are dealing trying to be hammered out that would determine which way the teams goes. Some will not happen until Draft day. The team is playing everything close to the vest and just because you did not like how something went down does not mean it happened haphazardly. Diggs forced his hand and the Vikings got a potentially pretty good return. Waynes got over paid and Rhodes took a prove it deal.
There are tons of articles out there asking the very questions that Mark is bringing up here. And plenty of them are from places like SI, not just Vikings-oriented sites.
Minnesota has been a model of consistency for years now with the lone exception of not knowing what the plan was at QB. Now that question has been answered but scads of new ones were raised this offseason. Which is very much not how Rick & Mike have typically operated together.
And there's also the fact that neither has been extended.
Mac signed with Cinci for peanuts. He either didn't want to stay or Minnesota didn't want to keep their best performing CB. Or the knee injury bothered them, which is ironic since they caused it by trotting him out on Week 16 when the rest of the Starters sat. Rick responds by offering Robey-Coleman the veterans minimum. He signs for not much more.
So what's the plan here? Hughes? Then why try to snag Nikell for the minimum? Are they just bargain shopping? Are they good with the kids + a Draft Pick if they can't find any bargains?
Why extend Cousins? So far that savings has netted the team Jones, Abdullah, and Dozier. I get Dozier. He's still relatively young and Dennison obviously sees something there. But why the hell do you keep an aging 3rd string Center when you can't even afford your League Average RG? Why keep your aging 4th string Running Back?
Moves like Pierce and Cousins suggest they still think they can compete this year or next at the earliest. Moves like Kline suggest they're going with youth and an outright rebuild.
It's all over the place, which is not the typical MO for this FO. And it's caught the national media's attention. Which makes it more than an apt topic here and kudos to Mark for bringing it up.
FWIW, my belief is the Wilfs are losing money hand over fist because of the pandemic and want butts in seats when this is all behind us. You need marketable faces to do that. Cousins is one. Cook will get extended soon, another thing you don't do when you're strapped financially and rebuilding. But he's marketable. And they still have Smith, Kendricks, Barr and Hunter to hype on Defense.
Rick & Mike will try to keep the Team in the Playoff conversation, which is easier now with the addition of the 7th seed, with those marketable names and as many as 8 Payers who will be first time Starters next year. They'll call it retooling. And they probably believe when the real window actually reopens in 2022 that Cousins will still be in his prime and can lead them all the way home. I just doubt their still with the organization at that point.
Team goes 7-9, misses the Playoffs, Rick and Mike become the fall guys. The Wilfs hype a new FO and HC as the reason to believe the window is open again. Revenue flows. We're all older. Same old story. Sigh.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
They are not close to being done this off-season. The Vikings have done very good the past few years getting day one starters through the 3rd round. If they can trade down from either #22 or #25 they'll likely add an additional 3rd giving them 6 picks in the top 3 rounds. There are obviously some misses here or there, but the Vikings are one of the better drafting teams in the league.
They will still likely add another player in the secondary but the truth is they're going to carry 10 DBs into the season in some capacity. Right now they're sitting with:
CB: Hughes / Hill /Boyd / Sayles / Meadors / Fields / Hall
S: Smith / Harris
The guys in bold are likely chalked into the 53. Meadors will compete for a spot but nothing is assured. If they sign one quality FA they likely have 7 spots locked up and they only need depth at Safety. So you're looking to spend 1 or maybe 2 high draft picks on the secondary. That still leaves you 4 others picks in round 1-3 to grab a WR, D-Lineman, and O-lineman (or two).
OK. Which veteran safety?
Relying on Hughes, Hill, and Boyd is risky too.
They could not even get Roberts to come here when it was reported they expressed interest
But based on your comment, do you expect they will draft a safety early?
I am starting to think that veterans DO NOT want to come play for Zimmer.
This cornerback depth chart should not worry any veteran and those looking for a one year prove it deal couldn't find an easier group to grab a starting spot.
Yet, they are not really looking too hard.
I wish I was a better makeup artist so that I could put the lipstick on better. I think it would be a complete waste to spend more money or even a high draft pick at safety when you have Smith / Harris. Both have proven to be durable and you can cover up late round draft picks in the scheme. Even if you spent on 5th/6th on JR Reed you'd have a good safety next.
The issue that is starting to transpire is that you need to choose your strengths. The Vikings want to stuff the run and get after the QB, it has always been their bread & butter. Truth is, if they can hold teams to 3rd and 5 vs. 3rd and 2 you can have less talent in the secondary.
You're putting a lot of tea leaves together when it comes to player not wanting to play for Zimmer. He isn't for everyone, but he is highly respected. Teams cannot compete for a Super Bowl window every season. But that doesn't mean you need to take a large step back either. Look at Green Bay who is also dealing with a veteran QB. If the Vikings can get by in 2020 they'll be able to spend to fill their remaining holes in 2021.
I may be off on the tea reading but something is up.
Do you think the Vikings have enough to stop the run now? Is Stephen the answer at the 3T? Will Jaleel and Jalyn finally do something/
Is Odenigbo and Zettel enough to replace Griffen and Weatherly?
I'd love to see them splurge for Clowney but that would immediately force them to give Hunter a raise (at least by 2021).
It'll be interesting to see what they do with Holmes. I think he is a big x-factor in all of this. Not only because we haven't seen much of him or his development, but because they could end up sliding him back outside to end. The Vikings D-line has always been a bit about the sum of its parts although they've had plenty of talent. But Ifeadi is still developing and should get a chance to start. You give up something in comparison to Everson, but you're also saving $10+M against the cap.
Inside I think that Shamar gets a bad rap since he's not the sexy pass rushing 3T like Sheldon Richardson was. But he does allow them a little more flexibility in what they do next to him. I think the Pierce signing is sneaky since he is better at resetting the LOS than Linval was the past two years. If Shamar can keep the LBs clean (his biggest strength imo) Kendricks, Wilson, and Barr should be able to clean up in the backfield. In pass rushing situations you can go light and take both Pierce/Shamar off the field but could also throw Watts in next to Shamar to get a little more juice. I think Watts is going to surprise quite a few people.
What I play with in my mind is how much would the Vikings value an every down pass rushing 3T? Someone Blacklock fits so well but I don't know if the value makes sense if they aren't committed to giving him the majority of the snaps inside. Internally my hunch is that they're happy with their interior D-line. Whether that is the correct analysis or not is debatable.
I'm glad that you brought this up. On the one I hand I feel exactly like you do, that the Vikings may be happy with what they have at DT as long as a guy like Holmes or even Hercules develops into a more consistent pass rusher. On the other, a blue chip guy like Kinlaw or Blacklock could make this a dynamic line, or very close to one.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ mjollnir_k said:
Cripes just because they are not advertising their intentions doesn't mean they are not planning. Right now Free Agency is at a lull. There are dealing trying to be hammered out that would determine which way the teams goes. Some will not happen until Draft day. The team is playing everything close to the vest and just because you did not like how something went down does not mean it happened haphazardly. Diggs forced his hand and the Vikings got a potentially pretty good return. Waynes got over paid and Rhodes took a prove it deal.
OK. I am just seeing the free agents that may help the secondary getting signed elsewhere.
There are only two safeties on the roster right now and two rookies drafted late does not really inspire much confidence.
They always play close to the vest but the options are dwindling.
I'll never understand this "we need a 1st rounder at every position" mentality. My goodness....what do you want? Two rookie safeties drafted late actually offers a pretty solid outlook, considering the fact that we might have the best starting tandem in the league. I would argue that it's actually overkill. Personally, I would not pay Harris. I'd replace him with a rookie from the first three rounds. Then draft depth later on and add a veteran after the draft...or June 1st...or from 1st cuts.
Who's saying anything about 1st Rounders? You just pointed out how high the bust factor is even in that Round. And yet the team doesn't have the cap space to do much and will need to rely on multiple picks from this Draft being Starters. And multiple picks from the 2 previous Drafts getting Starter minutes for the 1st time ever.
This team is going to look really young next year. As in 'coming off of a 3-13 year and rebuilding via the Draft' young. But without a Rookie QB contract that allows them to supplement the Draft with Free Agents.
In other words, this team is going to look like a typical Packers team before the cheese went nuts in FA last offseason.
I would really like to know what happened with Kline. He performed well and probably earned his contract, but they cut him. Was he a diva?
Quote: @FSUVike said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ mjollnir_k said:
Cripes just because they are not advertising their intentions doesn't mean they are not planning. Right now Free Agency is at a lull. There are dealing trying to be hammered out that would determine which way the teams goes. Some will not happen until Draft day. The team is playing everything close to the vest and just because you did not like how something went down does not mean it happened haphazardly. Diggs forced his hand and the Vikings got a potentially pretty good return. Waynes got over paid and Rhodes took a prove it deal.
OK. I am just seeing the free agents that may help the secondary getting signed elsewhere.
There are only two safeties on the roster right now and two rookies drafted late does not really inspire much confidence.
They always play close to the vest but the options are dwindling.
I'll never understand this "we need a 1st rounder at every position" mentality. My goodness....what do you want? Two rookie safeties drafted late actually offers a pretty solid outlook, considering the fact that we might have the best starting tandem in the league. I would argue that it's actually overkill. Personally, I would not pay Harris. I'd replace him with a rookie from the first three rounds. Then draft depth later on and add a veteran after the draft...or June 1st...or from 1st cuts.
Who's saying anything about 1st Rounders? You just pointed out how high the bust factor is even in that Round. And yet the team doesn't have the cap space to do much and will need to rely on multiple picks from this Draft being Starters. And multiple picks from the 2 previous Drafts getting Starter minutes for the 1st time ever.
This team is going to look really young next year. As in 'coming off of a 3-13 year and rebuilding via the Draft' young. But without a Rookie QB contract that allows them to supplement the Draft with Free Agents.
In other words, this team is going to look like a typical Packers team before the cheese went nuts in FA last offseason.
I didn't mean LITERALLY 1st rounders. But my God the guy was complaining that our two backup safeties might have to come from the middle to late rounds. The horror. They're backups. It's what rounds 4-7 are for. Depth. As someone pointed out above, Kearse was a 7th rounder. Jamarca Sanford was a 7th rounder. Anthony Harris was undrafted.
I'm not even for paying Anthony Harris, but this guy wants to not only pay him, but bring in another goddamn free agent. LOL. We have 12 picks in the draft. I'm sure we can find a couple backup safeties somewhere.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ FSUVike said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ mjollnir_k said:
Cripes just because they are not advertising their intentions doesn't mean they are not planning. Right now Free Agency is at a lull. There are dealing trying to be hammered out that would determine which way the teams goes. Some will not happen until Draft day. The team is playing everything close to the vest and just because you did not like how something went down does not mean it happened haphazardly. Diggs forced his hand and the Vikings got a potentially pretty good return. Waynes got over paid and Rhodes took a prove it deal.
OK. I am just seeing the free agents that may help the secondary getting signed elsewhere.
There are only two safeties on the roster right now and two rookies drafted late does not really inspire much confidence.
They always play close to the vest but the options are dwindling.
I'll never understand this "we need a 1st rounder at every position" mentality. My goodness....what do you want? Two rookie safeties drafted late actually offers a pretty solid outlook, considering the fact that we might have the best starting tandem in the league. I would argue that it's actually overkill. Personally, I would not pay Harris. I'd replace him with a rookie from the first three rounds. Then draft depth later on and add a veteran after the draft...or June 1st...or from 1st cuts.
Who's saying anything about 1st Rounders? You just pointed out how high the bust factor is even in that Round. And yet the team doesn't have the cap space to do much and will need to rely on multiple picks from this Draft being Starters. And multiple picks from the 2 previous Drafts getting Starter minutes for the 1st time ever.
This team is going to look really young next year. As in 'coming off of a 3-13 year and rebuilding via the Draft' young. But without a Rookie QB contract that allows them to supplement the Draft with Free Agents.
In other words, this team is going to look like a typical Packers team before the cheese went nuts in FA last offseason.
I didn't mean LITERALLY 1st rounders. But my God the guy was complaining that our two backup safeties might have to come from the middle to late rounds. The horror. They're backups. It's what rounds 4-7 are for. Depth. As someone pointed out above, Kearse was a 7th rounder. Jamarca Sanford was a 7th rounder. Anthony Harris was undrafted.
I'm not even for paying Anthony Harris, but this guy wants to not only pay him, but bring in another goddamn free agent. LOL. We have 12 picks in the draft. I'm sure we can find a couple backup safeties somewhere.
It's OK if you say my name.
I do not know if mid to late round rookies can be counted upon if they needed to start.
I am asking what is going on.
If Randall signed for the minimum then why couldn't the Viking get him?
The Raiders have Johnathan Abram, LaMarcus Joyner, and signed Jeff Heath in free agency too.
The Vikings cannot even get any secondary help for the minimum or close to it.
As I said above, the Vikings cornerback depth chart is not so impressive that a player should not think they have a very good chance of winning a starting job.
Unless they heard it through the grapevine that there will not be any competition. I am guessing here.
I bring this up now because it is all quiet on the western front.
And the free agent options are dwindling.
But whatever dude. I do not post on Vikings blogs to blow smoke where the sun don't shine.
So far, the current roster is not very impressive.
Quote: @MarkSP18 said:
So far, the current roster is not very impressive.
If only the season were 5 months away and there were some way to add more players between now and then.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
So far, the current roster is not very impressive.
If only the season were 5 months away and there were some way to add more players between now and then.
Players that will likely be Rookies!
But let's take a deeper dive:
RDE-Ogdenigbo-Never been a Starter but does project well due to the number of snaps he got last year
NT-Pierce-Lost his starting gig in Baltimore.
3T-Rookie? Watts? Holmes? Stephen again?
LDE-Hunter
Who's the backups at DE? You can say Zimmer and Dre will find late Round magic, but those dudes all took time to develop! And that means Fedi and Hunter will be dragging major ass by Week 17 since they don't have anyone to rotate with.
How about the other Line?
LT-Reiff
RG-Rookie? Dozier?
Center-Bradbury
RG-Samia, with a whopping 1 game under his belt.
RT-O'Neill
Major questions at Guard. If they couldn't afford Kline they ain't getting any competition for Samia in FA for sure.
How about at CB?
CB1-Rookie? Hill?
CB2-Sayles?
Slot-Hughes?
Dime-Boyd?
That's going to be maybe the greenest Secondary ever. Veteran FA? They couldn't even afford Robey-Coleman for a mill. Any signing they make here will be a Street FA for an extra camp body.
Holes at 3T, backup DE, backup Safety (good thing those dudes are so durable), LG, WR2, and CB. Maybe 2 at CB. The Draft can fill all those holes...eventually. To expect to get that many kids who will make an impact as Rookies is ridiculous. Most will take at least a year or 2 to develop.
And all this with the backdrop of counting on First Time Starters Ogdenigbo, Hughes, Hill, Samia and maybe Watts to step up, some with not very many snaps under their belts.
I'll ask it again, though nobody has come up with a reason yet. Why would a Team that is skewing so young waste what little money it has on a 4th String Running Back and a 3rd String Center, neither of whom are exactly young by NFL Standards. Why?
Quote: @FSUVike said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
So far, the current roster is not very impressive.
If only the season were 5 months away and there were some way to add more players between now and then.
Players that will likely be Rookies!
But let's take a deeper dive:
RDE-Ogdenigbo-Never been a Starter but does project well due to the number of snaps he got last year
NT-Pierce-Lost his starting gig in Baltimore.
3T-Rookie? Watts? Holmes? Stephen again?
LDE-Hunter
Who's the backups at DE? You can say Zimmer and Dre will find late Round magic, but those dudes all took time to develop! And that means Fedi and Hunter will be dragging major ass by Week 17 since they don't have anyone to rotate with.
How about the other Line?
LT-Reiff
RG-Rookie? Dozier?
Center-Bradbury
RG-Samia, with a whopping 1 game under his belt.
RT-O'Neill
Major questions at Guard. If they couldn't afford Kline they ain't getting any competition for Samia in FA for sure.
How about at CB?
CB1-Rookie? Hill?
CB2-Sayles?
Slot-Hughes?
Dime-Boyd?
That's going to be maybe the greenest Secondary ever. Veteran FA? They couldn't even afford Robey-Coleman for a mill. Any signing they make here will be a Street FA for an extra camp body.
Holes at 3T, backup DE, backup Safety (good thing those dudes are so durable), LG, WR2, and CB. Maybe 2 at CB. The Draft can fill all those holes...eventually. To expect to get that many kids who will make an impact as Rookies is ridiculous. Most will take at least a year or 2 to develop.
And all this with the backdrop of counting on First Time Starters Ogdenigbo, Hughes, Hill, Samia and maybe Watts to step up, some with not very many snaps under their belts.
I'll ask it again, though nobody has come up with a reason yet. Why would a Team that is skewing so young waste what little money it has on a 4th String Running Back and a 3rd String Center, neither of whom are exactly young by NFL Standards. Why?
Take a look at my mock. I found solid day 1 starters at CB and LG. Opted for players who'll produce and continue to grow at WR and DE. Hoping it'll make you feel better.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
So far, the current roster is not very impressive.
If only the season were 5 months away and there were some way to add more players between now and then.
Players that will likely be Rookies!
But let's take a deeper dive:
RDE-Ogdenigbo-Never been a Starter but does project well due to the number of snaps he got last year
NT-Pierce-Lost his starting gig in Baltimore.
3T-Rookie? Watts? Holmes? Stephen again?
LDE-Hunter
Who's the backups at DE? You can say Zimmer and Dre will find late Round magic, but those dudes all took time to develop! And that means Fedi and Hunter will be dragging major ass by Week 17 since they don't have anyone to rotate with.
How about the other Line?
LT-Reiff
RG-Rookie? Dozier?
Center-Bradbury
RG-Samia, with a whopping 1 game under his belt.
RT-O'Neill
Major questions at Guard. If they couldn't afford Kline they ain't getting any competition for Samia in FA for sure.
How about at CB?
CB1-Rookie? Hill?
CB2-Sayles?
Slot-Hughes?
Dime-Boyd?
That's going to be maybe the greenest Secondary ever. Veteran FA? They couldn't even afford Robey-Coleman for a mill. Any signing they make here will be a Street FA for an extra camp body.
Holes at 3T, backup DE, backup Safety (good thing those dudes are so durable), LG, WR2, and CB. Maybe 2 at CB. The Draft can fill all those holes...eventually. To expect to get that many kids who will make an impact as Rookies is ridiculous. Most will take at least a year or 2 to develop.
And all this with the backdrop of counting on First Time Starters Ogdenigbo, Hughes, Hill, Samia and maybe Watts to step up, some with not very many snaps under their belts.
I'll ask it again, though nobody has come up with a reason yet. Why would a Team that is skewing so young waste what little money it has on a 4th String Running Back and a 3rd String Center, neither of whom are exactly young by NFL Standards. Why?
This year's Vikings team is going to really be a question mark, on that I agree. Why they've done what they've done so far? My guess is they are working a plan and its not completely done yet nor will it be probably right until early September where the team might be more interested in the last cuts around the NFL than in other years. Young guys will need to step up, that's for sure. Its April 4th and there's lots to be done to this roster yet before early September.
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