Quote: @MaroonBells said:
Watch the tape from those games and see how many times Diggs is open but just doesn't get the ball. At times because Cousins was under too much pressure, but also at times when he was not and just didn't pull the trigger. Diggs is far from the problem. One can make a "best use of resources" argument in favor of a trade, but not a talent or injury one.
You're right that if you're going to trade a receiver, Diggs would be the one to trade. I disagree with anyone who argues that Thielen would bring as much in return. He wouldn't. And that's mostly due to age. That said, teams almost never trade a star player for a pick that replaces that star player (Moss/Williamson notwithstanding). The potential failure of that trade is too conspicuous.
Yes, Joseph, Rhodes, Griffen and Reiff are probably gone. We're currently $5M over the cap, which is expected to increase by $8M, putting us at $3M. Releasing the above frees roughly $40, giving us $43M to spend on our own free agents (likely Harris and Weatherly. Maybe Waynes, Mack Al) and perhaps one key free agent (Scherff?) and a couple of lower tier guys. All without sacrificing your best receiver for a draft pick that could easily be Troy Williamson or Corey Davis or John Ross or Corey Coleman or Will Fuller....
This (bolded part of your post) is 100% true. I saw some screenshots of Kirk at the top of his drop with no pressure and he had opportunities to hit Diggs downfield in single coverage and either didn't see it or refused to throw it. We can't have that... especially in games where San Francisco clearly made it an emphasis to stop our running game. It's very concerning after watching Cousins take those shots and make that throw to Thielen against New Orleans... where did that guy go?
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Watch the tape from those games and see how many times Diggs is open but just doesn't get the ball. At times because Cousins was under too much pressure, but also at times when he was not and just didn't pull the trigger. Diggs is far from the problem. One can make a "best use of resources" argument in favor of a trade, but not a talent or injury one.
You're right that if you're going to trade a receiver, Diggs would be the one to trade. I disagree with anyone who argues that Thielen would bring as much in return. He wouldn't. And that's mostly due to age. That said, teams almost never trade a star player for a pick that replaces that star player (Moss/Williamson notwithstanding). The potential failure of that trade is too conspicuous.
Yes, Joseph, Rhodes, Griffen and Reiff are probably gone. We're currently $5M over the cap, which is expected to increase by $8M, putting us at $3M. Releasing the above frees roughly $40, giving us $43M to spend on our own free agents (likely Harris and Weatherly. Maybe Waynes, Mack Al) and perhaps one key free agent (Scherff?) and a couple of lower tier guys. All without sacrificing your best receiver for a draft pick that could easily be Troy Williamson or Corey Davis or John Ross or Corey Coleman or Will Fuller....
This (bolded part of your post) is 100% true. I saw some screenshots of Kirk at the top of his drop with no pressure and he had opportunities to hit Diggs downfield in single coverage and either didn't see it or refused to throw it. We can't have that... especially in games where San Francisco clearly made it an emphasis to stop our running game. I t's very concerning after watching Cousins take those shots and make that throw to Thielen against New Orleans... where did that guy go?
We may never be able to answer that...I think that just goes with him as your QB. Not that it's acceptable or palatable.
I've been bullish on building around KC cause he's so much better than many (most) of the qb's the org has trotted out there over the decades. Even with his flaws.
We've had some insightful ways articulated by fans on what that surround improvement needs to look like. But I do have a growing concern that even if the front office and scouting is great at executing it, 2020 could still be purgatory with the system and coaching in place.
Will be very interesting to see the Coordinator decisions looming. I would not extend KC/MZ/RS now.
2020 is it for me - win big or I'd at least make a big coaching change.
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Watch the tape from those games and see how many times Diggs is open but just doesn't get the ball. At times because Cousins was under too much pressure, but also at times when he was not and just didn't pull the trigger. Diggs is far from the problem. One can make a "best use of resources" argument in favor of a trade, but not a talent or injury one.
You're right that if you're going to trade a receiver, Diggs would be the one to trade. I disagree with anyone who argues that Thielen would bring as much in return. He wouldn't. And that's mostly due to age. That said, teams almost never trade a star player for a pick that replaces that star player (Moss/Williamson notwithstanding). The potential failure of that trade is too conspicuous.
Yes, Joseph, Rhodes, Griffen and Reiff are probably gone. We're currently $5M over the cap, which is expected to increase by $8M, putting us at $3M. Releasing the above frees roughly $40, giving us $43M to spend on our own free agents (likely Harris and Weatherly. Maybe Waynes, Mack Al) and perhaps one key free agent (Scherff?) and a couple of lower tier guys. All without sacrificing your best receiver for a draft pick that could easily be Troy Williamson or Corey Davis or John Ross or Corey Coleman or Will Fuller....
This (bolded part of your post) is 100% true. I saw some screenshots of Kirk at the top of his drop with no pressure and he had opportunities to hit Diggs downfield in single coverage and either didn't see it or refused to throw it. We can't have that... especially in games where San Francisco clearly made it an emphasis to stop our running game. It's very concerning after watching Cousins take those shots and make that throw to Thielen against New Orleans... where did that guy go?
He didn't make the flight. I have a feeling the San Francisco game erased all of the extension talk that was generated by the New Orleans game. You can argue that he didn't get time and this is true. He was under pressure, if I remember right, 17 out of 35 drop backs, which is ridiculous. He saw ghosts on the others and that can't happen to a player of his experience and salary. Sage Rosenfels did a pretty good breakdown on Twitter of these missed opportunities.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Watch the tape from those games and see how many times Diggs is open but just doesn't get the ball. At times because Cousins was under too much pressure, but also at times when he was not and just didn't pull the trigger. Diggs is far from the problem. One can make a "best use of resources" argument in favor of a trade, but not a talent or injury one.
You're right that if you're going to trade a receiver, Diggs would be the one to trade. I disagree with anyone who argues that Thielen would bring as much in return. He wouldn't. And that's mostly due to age. That said, teams almost never trade a star player for a pick that replaces that star player (Moss/Williamson notwithstanding). The potential failure of that trade is too conspicuous.
Yes, Joseph, Rhodes, Griffen and Reiff are probably gone. We're currently $5M over the cap, which is expected to increase by $8M, putting us at $3M. Releasing the above frees roughly $40, giving us $43M to spend on our own free agents (likely Harris and Weatherly. Maybe Waynes, Mack Al) and perhaps one key free agent (Scherff?) and a couple of lower tier guys. All without sacrificing your best receiver for a draft pick that could easily be Troy Williamson or Corey Davis or John Ross or Corey Coleman or Will Fuller....
This (bolded part of your post) is 100% true. I saw some screenshots of Kirk at the top of his drop with no pressure and he had opportunities to hit Diggs downfield in single coverage and either didn't see it or refused to throw it. We can't have that... especially in games where San Francisco clearly made it an emphasis to stop our running game. It's very concerning after watching Cousins take those shots and make that throw to Thielen against New Orleans... where did that guy go?
He didn't make the flight. I have a feeling the San Francisco game erased all of the extension talk that was generated by the New Orleans game. You can argue that he didn't get time and this is true. He was under pressure, if I remember right, 17 out of 35 drop backs, which is ridiculous. He saw ghosts on the others and that can't happen to a player of his experience and salary. Sage Rosenfels did a pretty good breakdown on Twitter of these missed opportunities.
I think they will have him play out his contract at this point. They can franchise him if need be since he didn't put a no franchise tag clause in his contract. However, since he will be paid over 29 million in 2020 his tag price would be north of 40 mil
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Watch the tape from those games and see how many times Diggs is open but just doesn't get the ball. At times because Cousins was under too much pressure, but also at times when he was not and just didn't pull the trigger. Diggs is far from the problem. One can make a "best use of resources" argument in favor of a trade, but not a talent or injury one.
You're right that if you're going to trade a receiver, Diggs would be the one to trade. I disagree with anyone who argues that Thielen would bring as much in return. He wouldn't. And that's mostly due to age. That said, teams almost never trade a star player for a pick that replaces that star player (Moss/Williamson notwithstanding). The potential failure of that trade is too conspicuous.
Yes, Joseph, Rhodes, Griffen and Reiff are probably gone. We're currently $5M over the cap, which is expected to increase by $8M, putting us at $3M. Releasing the above frees roughly $40, giving us $43M to spend on our own free agents (likely Harris and Weatherly. Maybe Waynes, Mack Al) and perhaps one key free agent (Scherff?) and a couple of lower tier guys. All without sacrificing your best receiver for a draft pick that could easily be Troy Williamson or Corey Davis or John Ross or Corey Coleman or Will Fuller....
This (bolded part of your post) is 100% true. I saw some screenshots of Kirk at the top of his drop with no pressure and he had opportunities to hit Diggs downfield in single coverage and either didn't see it or refused to throw it. We can't have that... especially in games where San Francisco clearly made it an emphasis to stop our running game. It's very concerning after watching Cousins take those shots and make that throw to Thielen against New Orleans... where did that guy go?
This is what explains good stats but poor results. I have been watching this for awhile, and it is especially prevalent in big games. He just won't take a risk until he has to, and often times it is too late by then.
It's why he can beat bad teams, such as teams you can run against, but not good teams, especially those that can stop the run.
It is the exact genesis of blow ups on the sideline by Theilen and Diggs.
Many here seem to think that he will transform into a great QB if he has a good Offensive line and better protection, and I hope that is true. The problem is, NFL QB's have to deal with pressure even when they do have a good line.
Cousins has all the accuracy necessary to be a great QB and better protection will help. But his tendency to check down, rather than throw to open receivers down field, is something even Zimmer seems to be growing weary of.
I'm not a hater and I hope for the best for Cousins. I just don't blame all of his inconsistencies on the O-line.
Unfortunately, SF is a really bad match up for Kirk. Kirk does so well when he can get into rhythm early and execute what he's good at, which is play action. SF's game plan of stopping the run first and relying on a 4 man rush to get pressure was a great plan and it obviously worked. I'm not defending Kirk's play but the entire OL not getting ANY push on running plays really screwed us for passing downs as Diggs definitely likes to run longer routes and with a panicked Kirk, you aren't going to have a lot of success. Play calling was suspect and sure, Kirk's play was awful, but I dont know of a single person on offense who really played to their potential last weekend.
I think another issue with Kirk is that he has been programmed to be overly cautious against the turn over, he rarely puts the ball out there where the receiver doesnt have a clear advantage. you wont throw a lot of picks that way, but you will also be missing out on a lot of potential big plays, and to put a defense like san frans on their heels its going to take more than one fluke TD to get them to adjust their D game plan. IMO Zimmers ball security approach is paralyzing Cousins at times. I know I am going to get ripped for putting this on Zimmer, but we have had one QB in Zimmers time here that would just let it fly and Zimmer didnt like him despite that being the teams best year under Zimmer. ( i know I wasnt a Case fan either, but that was for other reasons, but I am pretty sure Zims problems were around his tendency to toss it up and let who ever wanted it the most to go get it.)
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
I think another issue with Kirk is that he has been programmed to be overly cautious against the turn over, he rarely puts the ball out there where the receiver doesnt have a clear advantage. you wont throw a lot of picks that way, but you will also be missing out on a lot of potential big plays, and to put a defense like san frans on their heels its going to take more than one fluke TD to get them to adjust their D game plan. IMO Zimmers ball security approach is paralyzing Cousins at times. I know I am going to get ripped for putting this on Zimmer, but we have had one QB in Zimmers time here that would just let it fly and Zimmer didnt like him despite that being the teams best year under Zimmer. ( i know I wasnt a Case fan either, but that was for other reasons, but I am pretty sure Zims problems were around his tendency to toss it up and let who ever wanted it the most to go get it.)
The effect of Zimmer's conservative philosophy on QB's is interesting and may have played a role in the desire to sign Cousins. But I think Cousins has had that risk averse tendency before he became a Viking.
I asked myself, what was the one thing Case had, that no other Zimmer era QB had ?
It was his Houdini like gift to escape pressure and make plays off script. He didn't need a great offensive line to do well. Consider how well he did despite not having the a very accurate or strong arm. He also was good at reading defenses and had an outstanding OC to help him. He also had Zimmer's defense which was at it's peak.
I understand why Zimmer didn't want to stick with Case, and chose Cousins. They have one more season to make it pay off or it will be a mistake that contributes to some defensive decline due to cap issues.
Do you also think Zimmer's conservative nature has also lead to a lack of aggressive game plans and a team that comes out flat in big games at times?
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Watch the tape from those games and see how many times Diggs is open but just doesn't get the ball. At times because Cousins was under too much pressure, but also at times when he was not and just didn't pull the trigger. Diggs is far from the problem. One can make a "best use of resources" argument in favor of a trade, but not a talent or injury one.
You're right that if you're going to trade a receiver, Diggs would be the one to trade. I disagree with anyone who argues that Thielen would bring as much in return. He wouldn't. And that's mostly due to age. That said, teams almost never trade a star player for a pick that replaces that star player (Moss/Williamson notwithstanding). The potential failure of that trade is too conspicuous.
Yes, Joseph, Rhodes, Griffen and Reiff are probably gone. We're currently $5M over the cap, which is expected to increase by $8M, putting us at $3M. Releasing the above frees roughly $40, giving us $43M to spend on our own free agents (likely Harris and Weatherly. Maybe Waynes, Mack Al) and perhaps one key free agent (Scherff?) and a couple of lower tier guys. All without sacrificing your best receiver for a draft pick that could easily be Troy Williamson or Corey Davis or John Ross or Corey Coleman or Will Fuller....
This (bolded part of your post) is 100% true. I saw some screenshots of Kirk at the top of his drop with no pressure and he had opportunities to hit Diggs downfield in single coverage and either didn't see it or refused to throw it. We can't have that... especially in games where San Francisco clearly made it an emphasis to stop our running game. It's very concerning after watching Cousins take those shots and make that throw to Thielen against New Orleans... where did that guy go?
Kirk is just moody maybe. When he's in the mood he throws and games. When he's not he worries and holds. I'm getting a little tired of wondering which will show up. I'm also getting even more tired of Kirk not showing up most times when needed most.
He is what he is. I don't think you build around someone like him. You always build a team but a team any decent QB can win with is not the same as building around one. For that we could have built a team and got Case or someone like that.
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