Quote: @greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ silverjoel said:
Why is all of the blame on the refs for calling the penalties and none of the blame on the players for commiting the penalties?
because they are making part of the game, things that have always been part of the game, a penalty now. Rhodes PI calls last year for making contact with receivers that has been acceptable his entire career, Cook getting the OPI for making contact with a defender on the TD... those have never been penalties until recently. plenty more... however how the league can focus on holding by the OL and make it a talking point and then let the packers get away with it when they are one of the worst offenders historically... how about we blame the league and the owners for not providing a stable set of rules and professional refs that train to make these calls?
They focused on holding specifically because of how the packers have gotten away with it for years. So how do they suddenly never hold. Saw several plays where the hands were grasping outside the shoulders, like they always do, and no flag.
Why only point out the Packers and not the boarder line holds that the Vikings commit? There's a boarder line hold on Cook's long run, should the refs have called that one too?
Quote: @silverjoel said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ silverjoel said:
Why is all of the blame on the refs for calling the penalties and none of the blame on the players for commiting the penalties?
because they are making part of the game, things that have always been part of the game, a penalty now. Rhodes PI calls last year for making contact with receivers that has been acceptable his entire career, Cook getting the OPI for making contact with a defender on the TD... those have never been penalties until recently. plenty more... however how the league can focus on holding by the OL and make it a talking point and then let the packers get away with it when they are one of the worst offenders historically... how about we blame the league and the owners for not providing a stable set of rules and professional refs that train to make these calls?
They focused on holding specifically because of how the packers have gotten away with it for years. So how do they suddenly never hold. Saw several plays where the hands were grasping outside the shoulders, like they always do, and no flag.
Why only point out the Packers and not the boarder line holds that the Vikings commit? There's a boarder line hold on Cook's long run, should the refs have called that one too?
They focused on holding specifically because of how the packers have
gotten away with it for years. So how do they suddenly never hold?
There are always borderline holds. But the style of "blocking" used by GB was the reason for this emphasis. The grasping of the pads outside the shoulders, that is what they wanted to eliminate. So how does the professional holders on GB not get called for this now?
As EG said, they are really good at it.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ silverjoel said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ silverjoel said:
Why is all of the blame on the refs for calling the penalties and none of the blame on the players for commiting the penalties?
because they are making part of the game, things that have always been part of the game, a penalty now. Rhodes PI calls last year for making contact with receivers that has been acceptable his entire career, Cook getting the OPI for making contact with a defender on the TD... those have never been penalties until recently. plenty more... however how the league can focus on holding by the OL and make it a talking point and then let the packers get away with it when they are one of the worst offenders historically... how about we blame the league and the owners for not providing a stable set of rules and professional refs that train to make these calls?
They focused on holding specifically because of how the packers have gotten away with it for years. So how do they suddenly never hold. Saw several plays where the hands were grasping outside the shoulders, like they always do, and no flag.
Why only point out the Packers and not the boarder line holds that the Vikings commit? There's a boarder line hold on Cook's long run, should the refs have called that one too?
They focused on holding specifically because of how the packers have
gotten away with it for years. So how do they suddenly never hold?
There are always borderline holds. But the style of "blocking" used by GB was the reason for this emphasis. The grasping of the pads outside the shoulders, that is what they wanted to eliminate. So how does the professional holders on GB not get called for this now?
As EG said, they are really good at it.
Maybe they adjusted their technique while working with the refs all off season (which every team got to do)?
Evidence to support this would be that Rodgers is currently on pace for the most sacks he has ever had in a season.
We teach holding for our O line. You can hold all day long as long as both pads are parallel to one another....it won't ever be called, so you've got to "mirror" your oppositions pads.
Once their pads are no longer parallel, theres a chance (a chance) to be called.......but it has to be pretty blatant to get the flag.
Quote: @silverjoel said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ silverjoel said:
Why is all of the blame on the refs for calling the penalties and none of the blame on the players for commiting the penalties?
because they are making part of the game, things that have always been part of the game, a penalty now. Rhodes PI calls last year for making contact with receivers that has been acceptable his entire career, Cook getting the OPI for making contact with a defender on the TD... those have never been penalties until recently. plenty more... however how the league can focus on holding by the OL and make it a talking point and then let the packers get away with it when they are one of the worst offenders historically... how about we blame the league and the owners for not providing a stable set of rules and professional refs that train to make these calls?
Okay. I think Rhodes has always been flagged a bunch. Cook cleared out the middle of a zone defense (this is an important distinction because Cook actually sought out the defender and begain pushing him out of the way of where the play was designed to go). GB has 2 offensive holdings on the year, the Vikings have 3 (at least 2 if not all 3 by the rookie center). The Patriots have the same number of OPI penalties as the Vikings, are the refs trying to screw them also?
It seems like it's not that a penalty was committed, but people just don't want the refs to actually call the penalties. So again I ask, why not put the blame on the players commiting the penalties? I'm guessing nobody had a problem with the refs calling offsides on Griffen in the first game. Why is it a issue for other obvious calls?
on Rhoades... not really that I recall, it became an issue last year when they put emphasis on it.
on Cook... that has always been allowed, as far as your version.. i think it was a bit more in the gray than you make it sound, but there has always been rub routes and even on sunday it wasnt called by the dozen refs on the field, it came after a review in NY. I didnt say the refs are screwing the Vikes on the holds called, I am saying they were helping the puke for not calling the holds that they said they were going to emphasize.
if you dont want to acknowledge referee bias...then dont, but its not like it doesnt happen, or maybe you missed the part about taking it easy on Tom... the teams and players are not all treated the same in the eyes of the league or the officials.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ silverjoel said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ silverjoel said:
Why is all of the blame on the refs for calling the penalties and none of the blame on the players for commiting the penalties?
because they are making part of the game, things that have always been part of the game, a penalty now. Rhodes PI calls last year for making contact with receivers that has been acceptable his entire career, Cook getting the OPI for making contact with a defender on the TD... those have never been penalties until recently. plenty more... however how the league can focus on holding by the OL and make it a talking point and then let the packers get away with it when they are one of the worst offenders historically... how about we blame the league and the owners for not providing a stable set of rules and professional refs that train to make these calls?
Okay. I think Rhodes has always been flagged a bunch. Cook cleared out the middle of a zone defense (this is an important distinction because Cook actually sought out the defender and begain pushing him out of the way of where the play was designed to go). GB has 2 offensive holdings on the year, the Vikings have 3 (at least 2 if not all 3 by the rookie center). The Patriots have the same number of OPI penalties as the Vikings, are the refs trying to screw them also?
It seems like it's not that a penalty was committed, but people just don't want the refs to actually call the penalties. So again I ask, why not put the blame on the players commiting the penalties? I'm guessing nobody had a problem with the refs calling offsides on Griffen in the first game. Why is it a issue for other obvious calls?
on Rhoades... not really that I recall, it became an issue last year when they put emphasis on it.
on Cook... that has always been allowed, as far as your version.. i think it was a bit more in the gray than you make it sound, but there has always been rub routes and even on sunday it wasnt called by the dozen refs on the field, it came after a review in NY. I didnt say the refs are screwing the Vikes on the holds called, I am saying they were helping the puke for not calling the holds that they said they were going to emphasize.
if you dont want to acknowledge referee bias...then dont, but its not like it doesnt happen, or maybe you missed the part about taking it easy on Tom... the teams and players are not all treated the same in the eyes of the league or the officials.
Vikings DPI penalties under Zimmer.
2014 - tied for 7th most
2015 - tied for 10th most
2016 - tied for 11th most
2017 - tied for 23rd most (best year)
2018 - tied for 13th most
Check PFF, although I don't agree with their grading system, they always knock Rhodes down because of penalties.
And no, pick plays are not allowed. They have been called penalties for years. A receiver can impede a defender (rub route by just getting in the way), if done without blatenly blocking them or running through them, but blocking down field on a pass play has been a penalty as long as I can remember. Cook actively blocked the defender with his hand on him.
And the Brady thing, do you know what play that was after? And the quote was "stay off Tom". Was the defender just laying on Brady for too long?
Do you have a bias against refs?
Quote: @silverjoel said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ silverjoel said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ silverjoel said:
Why is all of the blame on the refs for calling the penalties and none of the blame on the players for commiting the penalties?
because they are making part of the game, things that have always been part of the game, a penalty now. Rhodes PI calls last year for making contact with receivers that has been acceptable his entire career, Cook getting the OPI for making contact with a defender on the TD... those have never been penalties until recently. plenty more... however how the league can focus on holding by the OL and make it a talking point and then let the packers get away with it when they are one of the worst offenders historically... how about we blame the league and the owners for not providing a stable set of rules and professional refs that train to make these calls?
Okay. I think Rhodes has always been flagged a bunch. Cook cleared out the middle of a zone defense (this is an important distinction because Cook actually sought out the defender and begain pushing him out of the way of where the play was designed to go). GB has 2 offensive holdings on the year, the Vikings have 3 (at least 2 if not all 3 by the rookie center). The Patriots have the same number of OPI penalties as the Vikings, are the refs trying to screw them also?
It seems like it's not that a penalty was committed, but people just don't want the refs to actually call the penalties. So again I ask, why not put the blame on the players commiting the penalties? I'm guessing nobody had a problem with the refs calling offsides on Griffen in the first game. Why is it a issue for other obvious calls?
on Rhoades... not really that I recall, it became an issue last year when they put emphasis on it.
on Cook... that has always been allowed, as far as your version.. i think it was a bit more in the gray than you make it sound, but there has always been rub routes and even on sunday it wasnt called by the dozen refs on the field, it came after a review in NY. I didnt say the refs are screwing the Vikes on the holds called, I am saying they were helping the puke for not calling the holds that they said they were going to emphasize.
if you dont want to acknowledge referee bias...then dont, but its not like it doesnt happen, or maybe you missed the part about taking it easy on Tom... the teams and players are not all treated the same in the eyes of the league or the officials.
Vikings DPI penalties under Zimmer.
2014 - tied for 7th most
2015 - tied for 10th most
2016 - tied for 11th most
2017 - tied for 23rd most (best year)
2018 - tied for 13th most
Check PFF, although I don't agree with their grading system, they always knock Rhodes down because of penalties.
And no, pick plays are not allowed. They have been called penalties for years. A receiver can impede a defender (rub route by just getting in the way), if done without blatenly blocking them or running through them, but blocking down field on a pass play has been a penalty as long as I can remember. Cook actively blocked the defender with his hand on him.
And the Brady thing, do you know what play that was after? And the quote was "stay off Tom". Was the defender just laying on Brady for too long?
Do you have a bias against refs?
Rhodes struggled last year between penalties and hiS coverage due to the way they started to enforce illegal contact - the rest of the team stats are irrelevant.
I dont care about PFF and how they grade players, its typically a joke.
and when everybody that has seen that Cook play say WTF, announcers, other players, fuck even packer fans are questioning the call and saying it was a stretch of the rules to make that call... go ahead and argue. (even former heads of officiating said the call on Cook was weak)
I believe the comment about brady was made before the game IIRC. either way "stay off Tom" how is that supposed to be taken. if the defender doesnt hear that about every player that he tackles... how is it to be taken?
bias against refs, no I have a bias against poor or unbalanced officiating, a bias against a league that changes rules and enforcement arbitrarily. the NFL has become a joke in how their officials are calling the games, and honestly its not really mostly on them when they fuck up any more, with the constant dicking with the rules, how are they supposed to keep it all straight?
EDIT: I stand corrected, it was not before the game, the warning came after this hit.... no bias or favoritism here.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/videos-emerge-of-the-hit-on-tom-brady-that-drew-refs-alleged-stay-off-tom-warning/ar-AAHy7lI?li=BBnb7Kz
The point about Rhodes and PFF is not the grade, that's meaningless, but about the number of penalties against him which they track.
And about penalties, tell the players to
![[Image: giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a3e1805ee428496a9f4...=giphy.gif]](https://media2.giphy.com/media/a5Edxzop5reAU/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a3e1805ee428496a9f49a54bcfd5aa60a0b264f2c&rid=giphy.gif)
Quote: @silverjoel said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ silverjoel said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ silverjoel said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ silverjoel said:
Why is all of the blame on the refs for calling the penalties and none of the blame on the players for commiting the penalties?
because they are making part of the game, things that have always been part of the game, a penalty now. Rhodes PI calls last year for making contact with receivers that has been acceptable his entire career, Cook getting the OPI for making contact with a defender on the TD... those have never been penalties until recently. plenty more... however how the league can focus on holding by the OL and make it a talking point and then let the packers get away with it when they are one of the worst offenders historically... how about we blame the league and the owners for not providing a stable set of rules and professional refs that train to make these calls?
Okay. I think Rhodes has always been flagged a bunch. Cook cleared out the middle of a zone defense (this is an important distinction because Cook actually sought out the defender and begain pushing him out of the way of where the play was designed to go). GB has 2 offensive holdings on the year, the Vikings have 3 (at least 2 if not all 3 by the rookie center). The Patriots have the same number of OPI penalties as the Vikings, are the refs trying to screw them also?
It seems like it's not that a penalty was committed, but people just don't want the refs to actually call the penalties. So again I ask, why not put the blame on the players commiting the penalties? I'm guessing nobody had a problem with the refs calling offsides on Griffen in the first game. Why is it a issue for other obvious calls?
on Rhoades... not really that I recall, it became an issue last year when they put emphasis on it.
on Cook... that has always been allowed, as far as your version.. i think it was a bit more in the gray than you make it sound, but there has always been rub routes and even on sunday it wasnt called by the dozen refs on the field, it came after a review in NY. I didnt say the refs are screwing the Vikes on the holds called, I am saying they were helping the puke for not calling the holds that they said they were going to emphasize.
if you dont want to acknowledge referee bias...then dont, but its not like it doesnt happen, or maybe you missed the part about taking it easy on Tom... the teams and players are not all treated the same in the eyes of the league or the officials.
Vikings DPI penalties under Zimmer.
2014 - tied for 7th most
2015 - tied for 10th most
2016 - tied for 11th most
2017 - tied for 23rd most (best year)
2018 - tied for 13th most
Check PFF, although I don't agree with their grading system, they always knock Rhodes down because of penalties.
And no, pick plays are not allowed. They have been called penalties for years. A receiver can impede a defender (rub route by just getting in the way), if done without blatenly blocking them or running through them, but blocking down field on a pass play has been a penalty as long as I can remember. Cook actively blocked the defender with his hand on him.
And the Brady thing, do you know what play that was after? And the quote was "stay off Tom". Was the defender just laying on Brady for too long?
Do you have a bias against refs?
Rhodes struggled last year between penalties and hiS coverage due to the way they started to enforce illegal contact - the rest of the team stats are irrelevant.
I dont care about PFF and how they grade players, its typically a joke.
and when everybody that has seen that Cook play say WTF, announcers, other players, fuck even packer fans are questioning the call and saying it was a stretch of the rules to make that call... go ahead and argue. (even former heads of officiating said the call on Cook was weak)
I believe the comment about brady was made before the game IIRC. either way "stay off Tom" how is that supposed to be taken. if the defender doesnt hear that about every player that he tackles... how is it to be taken?
bias against refs, no I have a bias against poor or unbalanced officiating, a bias against a league that changes rules and enforcement arbitrarily. the NFL has become a joke in how their officials are calling the games, and honestly its not really mostly on them when they fuck up any more, with the constant dicking with the rules, how are they supposed to keep it all straight?
The point about Rhodes is not his PFF grade, that's meaningless, but they track penalties on players and Rhodes has more penalties against him than most DBs. That's the point.
And about penalties, I always have this come in my head...
https://media2.giphy.com/media/a5Edxzop5...0a0b264f2c&rid=giphy.gif
if the laws are not gray, evenly applied and consistently called, sure I can go with that, but when the league decides to "emphasize" certain aspects thus changing how the game is to be played all the time thats BS.
The PFF was irrelevant because the stat you showed was as a team, if he was a penalty problem teams would just go at him relentlessly.
Quote: @silverjoel said:
Why is all of the blame on the refs for calling the penalties and none of the blame on the players for commiting the penalties?
Because the refs are part timers...
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