Quote: @StickyBun said:
My guess is that this upcoming draft for the Vikings is not going to satisfy most of Viking Nation. Its just too difficult to bypass a BPA like Simmons or someone else if some OTs are taken before 18.
I think this is the case every year lol. Everyone went off the deep end when the Vikings took Mike Hughes but eventually warmed up to it. The scary part is I mocked Hughes to the Vikings early on last year before moving off of it. So I guess if they take Simmons you shouldn't read any mocks besides my first 1 or 2 of the season...
Nobody is denying that OL is a need you just can't reach since it undermines the entire process. You evaluate players for a reason and O-line will not always be the sole need on this team. Interior D-line or DE move up the list if Linval or Everson are not here in 2020. Same could be said for TE if they don't resign Rudolph. CB also becomes a topic for conversation if they can't retain Waynes and Mac. Point being, your needs are greater than what you need right now. The Patriots have had plenty of success drafting this way in the past.
Quote: @Tyr said:
I wouldn't be thrilled with this draft. Simmons is a top 5 talent, but he's coming off of a torn ACL and there's no guarantee that we get any return from him in the 1st year. That's a risky move to make when both the coach and GM are on 1-year contracts. If they were coming off of a strong season and had money to work FA, then they could afford to take that risk, but I don't think they're in a good spot to make this. Also, Simmon's off the field issue was punching a woman several times who was fighting his sister. Contextually that's better than other athletes & it's not a domestic situation at all, but there's still video of it and it will not play well with some fans.
I don't really like the idea of trading Waynes, then packaging picks to move up, and then speeding a day 2 pick on another corner. It just feels like a messy way to address needs. I get that it would free up cap room and at least give them a long term body at corner, but with Hughes coming off of an ACL and Hill being suspended for the first 4-games, it makes hard to move Waynes right now.
I'm also concerned about WR not being addressed until the 7th round. Adding another TE helps some, but it was pretty clear that the Vikings need a 3rd WR to take advantage of mismatches created by teams focusing on Diggs and Thielen and in this scenario we go into next season with the same problem. I liked the Treadwell pick at the time, but we can't go into next season with him as the 3rd WR and I think that Beebe is more of a 4th/5th WR.
I'm also concerned about only one early pick on the OL. I'd ideally like to bring in a LG and an OT. Kline will start, but I wouldn't expect Dozier or Jones to be anything more than depth.
I may be more concerned about immediate needs & maybe your draft looks better 2-3 years down the road, but if we miss the playoffs again, then there could be different people making the decisions next year and I don't want that outcome.
I don't disagree with any of your points but the point of trading Trae would be to get his $9M cap hit off the books. So although you're spending another high pick at CB you are allowing yourself to function financially. If they can't get the equivalent to at least a 3rd round pick in trade they are probably better off holding Trae and using their pick on another need like you suggested.
We've got to make some salary cap changes prior to the season. Where does everyone see those dollars coming from? Some starter/bigger name is getting cut or traded.
I've been looking forward to seeing your mocks again. I've been pounding the table for 4 years wanting OL help in the first round. I can't say that is going to change this year. But if Simmons is the pick, even I would find it hard to get overly pissy about the selection. I'm worried that pick 18 kind of falls in "no mans land" for OL help this year. I'd guess the top 3 guys all go in the top 15 picks and a guy like Ford, who I also feel is 1st round worthy, probably shouldn't be selected until until the mid 20s or so. It's hard to reach, when you have talent sitting there, that most years would probably/most definitely be a top 10 pick. There's a lot of ways to "skin the cat" this year. Do you play the trade back game and add another layer of risk or do reach a bit for a guy like Ford? Do you go DL in the first hoping an OL guy you like is still there at 50? Do you go OL and then TE, bypassing the D guys altogether? Do you toss in a 3rd to move up to get THE guy you want? I don't know what the right answer is this year.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
We've got to make some salary cap changes prior to the season. Where does everyone see those dollars coming from? Some starter/bigger name is getting cut or traded.
Keeping Barr keeps the heat on the front office cap wise. I am still surprised they kept EG at the #'s they did.
With Hill making juvenile decisions regarding PED's and Hughes a huge question mark to start the season, I am not convinced Waynes is on the trading block this season.
Not sure where the cap relief will come - maybe a surprise or 2 Training Camp release?
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ AGRforever said:
We've got to make some salary cap changes prior to the season. Where does everyone see those dollars coming from? Some starter/bigger name is getting cut or traded.
Keeping Barr keeps the heat on the front office cap wise. I am still surprised they kept EG at the #'s they did.
With Hill making juvenile decisions regarding PED's and Hughes a huge question mark to start the season, I am not convinced Waynes is on the trading block this season.
Not sure where the cap relief will come - maybe a surprise or 2 Training Camp release?
skip the gimp in the first round, grab Hockenson or Fant if they are available and then move Rudy for a late day 2 early day 3 draft pick if he wont restructure for a lot less without having to add a bunch of guaranteed money to the back end of his deal. That should free up enough cap to cover what they need for now.
I really want OL in the first but I wouldn't be THAT mad about Simmons. NFLDG makes a good case but I agree with Tyr, I don't think Spielman and Zimmer are comfortable enough in their seats to take a guy who won't play much in 2019. Nor should they be.
I like the positions and explanations for the other picks in this mock. Thanks Guru
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
I'd be pretty happy about that. Simmons is a tough one. Not because he's a DT but because he's hurt. Top 5 talent, but we would come out of that draft with only a starting LG helping us in 2019, but that might be the case no matter which way we go.
I sorta wonder if the Vikings could swing a trade down with New England who just might be looking at one of the TEs if he's there. 18 to 32 would net the Vikings the Pats' 2nd and 4th rounders and the Vikings would find better value there among players like Risner, Lindstrom, McGary...
I agree that Simmons is a tough one, I wanted to play around with the idea more than anything else. The injury doesn't scare me a ton since ACL recovery has become so streamlined over the past few years. It also happened early enough in the process that he would at worst get some live reps near the end of the season to prepare for 2020. in the most ideal situations if the top 3 OL are off the board Hockenson, Oliver, Gary, or Sweat make it down to #18.
NE makes a lot of sense as a trade partner since they have more picks than they can practically use and have a huge need at TE. I'd also put the Chargers in the conversation if one of the QB's make it down the board. The question I still don't have a great feel for is if they'd pass on a stud defensive player or TE for Bradbury or Lindstrom. Draft tendencies would suggest they wait on OL but practicality says that the former isn't making it to #50 and the latter likely isn't either.
Why wouldn't the Vikes try to trade up for one of the top 3 OLs? That is clearly our weak position and has been for a few years. If they are sold on those 3 and not as much on the rest, why not go for it rather than use a subjective value measure such as - Lindstrom is good for the 2nd round but not the 1st - and then miss out on him as another team grabs him ahead of us? Let's go after a top notch O lineman rather than take a chance that a lesser one falls into our lap later?
Quote: @PurplePastor said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
I'd be pretty happy about that. Simmons is a tough one. Not because he's a DT but because he's hurt. Top 5 talent, but we would come out of that draft with only a starting LG helping us in 2019, but that might be the case no matter which way we go.
I sorta wonder if the Vikings could swing a trade down with New England who just might be looking at one of the TEs if he's there. 18 to 32 would net the Vikings the Pats' 2nd and 4th rounders and the Vikings would find better value there among players like Risner, Lindstrom, McGary...
I agree that Simmons is a tough one, I wanted to play around with the idea more than anything else. The injury doesn't scare me a ton since ACL recovery has become so streamlined over the past few years. It also happened early enough in the process that he would at worst get some live reps near the end of the season to prepare for 2020. in the most ideal situations if the top 3 OL are off the board Hockenson, Oliver, Gary, or Sweat make it down to #18.
NE makes a lot of sense as a trade partner since they have more picks than they can practically use and have a huge need at TE. I'd also put the Chargers in the conversation if one of the QB's make it down the board. The question I still don't have a great feel for is if they'd pass on a stud defensive player or TE for Bradbury or Lindstrom. Draft tendencies would suggest they wait on OL but practicality says that the former isn't making it to #50 and the latter likely isn't either.
Why wouldn't the Vikes try to trade up for one of the top 3 OLs? That is clearly our weak position and has been for a few years. If they are sold on those 3 and not as much on the rest, why not go for it rather than use a subjective value measure such as - Lindstrom is good for the 2nd round but not the 1st - and then miss out on him as another team grabs him ahead of us? Let's go after a top notch O lineman rather than take a chance that a lesser one falls into our lap later?
the team is to weak at to many other positions to be trading away mid round picks (which is what it would take to move up 5-6 spots (or more) in the first. There are enough players that can make an impact at 18 or trade options to move down a few spots and still get a quality player at a position of need. I dont think any of the OL in this draft are the kind of guys you trade away picks to move up to get ( all pro type guys) there appears to be plenty of guys though that will be upgrades and should be day 1 starters on our OL.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ AGRforever said:
We've got to make some salary cap changes prior to the season. Where does everyone see those dollars coming from? Some starter/bigger name is getting cut or traded.
Keeping Barr keeps the heat on the front office cap wise. I am still surprised they kept EG at the #'s they did.
With Hill making juvenile decisions regarding PED's and Hughes a huge question mark to start the season, I am not convinced Waynes is on the trading block this season.
Not sure where the cap relief will come - maybe a surprise or 2 Training Camp release?
I'm not surprised they could fit Barr into the cap although it would have been better to not let him test the market since they basically handed him an additional $12M in guarantees on his 5th year option that don't offset in his new deal.
Griffen I am surprised on, I thought the Vikings would ask for more. The issue was that the way Griffen's deal was designed it made it very tough for the Vikings to push money from this season into the future without making the cap numbers unpalatable. It also would have decreased the benefit of moving on in future years. In other words they could have take more off his salary this year but would have been guaranteeing another restructure or cut in 2020. The deal they came to is at its core a 1 year deal worth $8.5M with options for both sides. There is some upside in that deal for MN I'd say.
|
