Like Jimmy suggests..The Vikings thinking here confuses me. G and T take a different skill set...I don't know why the Vikings can't figure that out and think that these positions are "interchangeable". T takes swift feet / nimble.... with an ability to engage from open space..where G are your road graders immediately and STAYING engaged. Maybe not as swift of feet as a T, but still need to be fast enough to pull.
Quote: @VikingOracle said:
@ StickyBun said:Retreads. Discards. Its how we got Remmers.
I think the Remmers signing should be evaluated differently. In his first years, Remmers played a solid RT -- I believe he may have graded out as the second highest Olineman after Berger ( https://vikingsterritory.com/2018/analys...ota-viking. Unfortunately, there were three cascading events that caused him to be moved to guard: (1) Berger retired; (2) Eason was injured; and (3) Vikes didn't draft a guard in the first round and ended up drafting a tackle in the second round. This caused Remmers to be moved inside where he was terrible and overpaid. Now, O'Neill is certainly a upgrade over Remmers but Remmers was a serviceable RT and if not for retirements/injuries and the way the draft fell, he would not have been the worse and most overpaid Olineman last year.
Remmers was an upgrade, but I dont think I would call his results solid, he was weak against the bull rush and a step slow with the speed guys, grading out as the second best OLman we had 2 years ago is again akin to being the second brightest kid on the short bus.... Remmers was a consolation prize 2 years ago after missing out on several FA OLman that went before we took Reiff and Remmers.
Quote: @Vanguard83 said:
Like Jimmy suggests..The Vikings thinking here confuses me. G and T take a different skill set...I don't know why the Vikings can't figure that out and think that these positions are "interchangeable". T takes swift feet / nimble.... with an ability to engage from open space..where G are your road graders immediately and STAYING engaged. Maybe not as swift of feet as a T, but still need to be fast enough to pull.
I think they're more interchangeable than many think. No, you're not going to take a career guard and suddenly make him a tackle capable of blocking Khalil Mack. But the reverse happens all the time. I'd say half the starting guards in the NFL were tackles in college. And there are several examples of older tackles moving to guard later in their careers. That said, while I think it's pretty obvious by now that we want to move O'Neill to the left, it's less clear that means Reiff moves inside. Depending on how the draft goes, he could be traded or released. 49ers did that last year. Within minutes of drafting Mike McGlinchey, they traded Trent Brown to the Pats.
The interest in Schraeder makes some sense. He was best when playing more stretch zone which is what the Vikings will be utilizing next season. At least he would be a guy who brings the right skill set to the table.
I agree this likely would suggest the Vikings are viewing Reiff as a guard now. There is a better chance he would succeed inside compared to Remmers due to the differences in how they play. But I think the ultimate plan is to move on from Reiff in 2020 when the dead cap becomes manageable. Clearing his $10M will give them the space necessary for Thielen's extension (even if they do it this off-season) they also have a number of extensions / RFA's they'll need money for next off-season as well.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ StickyBun said:Retreads. Discards. Its how we got Remmers.
I think the Remmers signing should be evaluated differently. In his first years, Remmers played a solid RT -- I believe he may have graded out as the second highest Olineman after Berger ( https://vikingsterritory.com/2018/analys...ota-viking. Unfortunately, there were three cascading events that caused him to be moved to guard: (1) Berger retired; (2) Eason was injured; and (3) Vikes didn't draft a guard in the first round and ended up drafting a tackle in the second round. This caused Remmers to be moved inside where he was terrible and overpaid. Now, O'Neill is certainly a upgrade over Remmers but Remmers was a serviceable RT and if not for retirements/injuries and the way the draft fell, he would not have been the worse and most overpaid Olineman last year.
Remmers was an upgrade, but I dont think I would call his results solid, he was weak against the bull rush and a step slow with the speed guys, grading out as the second best OLman we had 2 years ago is again akin to being the second brightest kid on the short bus.... Remmers was a consolation prize 2 years ago after missing out on several FA OLman that went before we took Reiff and Remmers.
Thank God someone else on here sees the truth. Remmers looked good IN COMPARISON to Clemmings.
Compared to the rest of the League? Not so much.
But I truly believe the plan was always to eventually move Mike inside, and he knew it when he signed here.
The proof is in the absolute fact that he not only didn't complain when moved to RG he actually said all the right things about it.
And why wouldn't he and his agent be open to it? How many guys get killed in a Super Bowl and somehow parlay that into a nice new deal?
Remmers knew Minnesota wanted him as a stopgap at RT and would eventually move him inside. I'm sure he figured a move to Guard would prolong his career. It's happened countless times and is akin to CBs moving to Safety.
But Rick, Tony, Zimmer and Remmers were wrong. Guys who transition to new roles later in their careers usually have the Talent to make it happen. Remmers doesn't have the Talent.
Know who has a lot more Talent based on both college and professional results? Reiff. That doesn't guarantee that he would make the transition. But he has a much better chance to do so than Remmers did.
If Kubes, Dennison and Company see Tackles in FA or the Draft that they have much higher grades on then Guards why box them in and say "The Vikings have their Tackles, look at Guards only"?
The LAST thing you want to do when trying to rebuild a Unit that was your Achilles Heel is limit your options.
Arent we doing a huge assumption here that Oneil will make the transition to LT? He played ok at RT last year but he was protected a lot. I know Reiff was no picnic at LT but.....it was better then what we’ve done at LT since Kalil’s second year.
Also, where do we clear 10-15 million to sign an OL?
The Vikings, where we always have 7 tackles and 2 centers,
and can’t figure out why our guard play always sucks.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
Arent we doing a huge assumption here that Oneil will make the transition to LT? He played ok at RT last year but he was protected a lot. I know Reiff was no picnic at LT but.....it was better then what we’ve done at LT since Kalil’s second year.
and Reiff was just fine in 17, last year he played hurt, but I think about this... Reiff playing hurt was still a better option than putting Hill (who we just resigned) in there.... Isidora (our only OG on the roster) was not good enought to displace Compton and Remmers who by everybodys accounts... sucked. We are so screwed if this draft doesnt go well.
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