Lip readers claim Kirk said, "I haven't got ten seconds", so I think Adam was saying something like "throw it on the count of ten and I would have been there". But 10 seconds was way too much to expect from our line. I wonder if Kirk actually said "seven seconds" or...maybe "two seconds".
Watch at 1:13 remaining in Q2. Once Kirk escapes the pocket Thielen immediately turns his route back to about the 10 yard line where he is a readily available target and honestly the safer throw if ball placement leaves it towards the sideline.
The frustration isn't solely due to that one play though. I think it finally boiled over because Kirk typically will only take the underneath pass when flushed out of the pocket. There are many examples where he has open receivers down the field but he takes whats underneath because its the "check down". It's really something that's plagued Kirk going back to his days in Washington (minus the year with McVay).
A lot of people are saying he doesn't see the field and I partially agree with it. But bigger picture after being pressured so much all season long it finally got into his head that he just needs to take the first man available vs. trying to push the ball down the field. Kirk was a very different (timid) player compared to the guy we saw in say weeks 1 or 2.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
Watch at 1:13 remaining in Q2. Once Kirk escapes the pocket Thielen immediately turns his route back to about the 10 yard line where he is a readily available target and honestly the safer throw if ball placement leaves it towards the sideline.
The frustration isn't solely due to that one play though. I think it finally boiled over because Kirk typically will only take the underneath pass when flushed out of the pocket. There are many examples where he has open receivers down the field but he takes whats underneath because its the "check down". It's really something that's plagued Kirk going back to his days in Washington (minus the year with McVay).
A lot of people are saying he doesn't see the field and I partially agree with it. But bigger picture after being pressured so much all season long it finally got into his head that he just needs to take the first man available vs. trying to push the ball down the field. Kirk was a very different (timid) player compared to the guy we saw in say weeks 1 or 2.
The rumor when Kirk came here was he 'didn't always pull the trigger', meaning he wouldn't always throw downfield in these situations. I can see that but at the same time, like you mention, he was under so much pressure most of the year that he might have gotten 'near sighted' in the pocket a bit.
He put up the numbers, but 2019 will be the year he can be truly evaluated, for better or worse. Minnesota better either elevate Sloter to the #2 QB this season or draft a potential guy so the team is ready to move on from Cousins after the 2020 season if this experiment doesn't pan out. Sloter's athleticism and arm strength you'd think would be a good fit for today's NFL outside of the HOF guys like Brees and Brady. Sloter is still just 24 years old so its not like he'd be old to take over the reigns potentially in the near future. He'd certainly have enough seasoning at that point.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
Watch at 1:13 remaining in Q2. Once Kirk escapes the pocket Thielen immediately turns his route back to about the 10 yard line where he is a readily available target and honestly the safer throw if ball placement leaves it towards the sideline.
The frustration isn't solely due to that one play though. I think it finally boiled over because Kirk typically will only take the underneath pass when flushed out of the pocket. There are many examples where he has open receivers down the field but he takes whats underneath because its the "check down". It's really something that's plagued Kirk going back to his days in Washington (minus the year with McVay).
A lot of people are saying he doesn't see the field and I partially agree with it. But bigger picture after being pressured so much all season long it finally got into his head that he just needs to take the first man available vs. trying to push the ball down the field. Kirk was a very different (timid) player compared to the guy we saw in say weeks 1 or 2.
Especially during the first and second quarter the last few games. Was that maybe because of the new OC and a lack of trust in the play call? KC was staring at the rush even when he had time, he looked like Ponder trying to find an escape route instead of throwing the ball.
But it seemed that he would settle down about halfway through the 2nd quarter. That I just don't understand.
Quote: @greediron said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
Watch at 1:13 remaining in Q2. Once Kirk escapes the pocket Thielen immediately turns his route back to about the 10 yard line where he is a readily available target and honestly the safer throw if ball placement leaves it towards the sideline.
The frustration isn't solely due to that one play though. I think it finally boiled over because Kirk typically will only take the underneath pass when flushed out of the pocket. There are many examples where he has open receivers down the field but he takes whats underneath because its the "check down". It's really something that's plagued Kirk going back to his days in Washington (minus the year with McVay).
A lot of people are saying he doesn't see the field and I partially agree with it. But bigger picture after being pressured so much all season long it finally got into his head that he just needs to take the first man available vs. trying to push the ball down the field. Kirk was a very different (timid) player compared to the guy we saw in say weeks 1 or 2.
Especially during the first and second quarter the last few games. Was that maybe because of the new OC and a lack of trust in the play call? KC was staring at the rush even when he had time, he looked like Ponder trying to find an escape route instead of throwing the ball.
But it seemed that he would settle down about halfway through the 2nd quarter. That I just don't understand.
its an instinct that has to be unlearned now. no different than a kid that gets smacked all the time, anytime they hear a loud voice or somebody makes a sudden movement they flinch.... well KC got hit so much this year he is suffering from it. we have seen the same thing from other QBs, early on they stand in there and take the punishment, but over time they start to rush throws, have their mechanics get out of whack, tuck and run to soon, take check downs to early...etc. I said in early december that the team maybe needed to admit that this wasnt their year and to get Sloter some experience since KC was looking shell shocked already by then and there werent going to be any magic fixes to that OL.... of course our slim playoff hopes won out, but in hingsight I still think it would have maybe been a better option since the kid has really no bright lights experience.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
Watch at 1:13 remaining in Q2. Once Kirk escapes the pocket Thielen immediately turns his route back to about the 10 yard line where he is a readily available target and honestly the safer throw if ball placement leaves it towards the sideline.
The frustration isn't solely due to that one play though. I think it finally boiled over because Kirk typically will only take the underneath pass when flushed out of the pocket. There are many examples where he has open receivers down the field but he takes whats underneath because its the "check down". It's really something that's plagued Kirk going back to his days in Washington (minus the year with McVay).
A lot of people are saying he doesn't see the field and I partially agree with it. But bigger picture after being pressured so much all season long it finally got into his head that he just needs to take the first man available vs. trying to push the ball down the field. Kirk was a very different (timid) player compared to the guy we saw in say weeks 1 or 2.
Especially during the first and second quarter the last few games. Was that maybe because of the new OC and a lack of trust in the play call? KC was staring at the rush even when he had time, he looked like Ponder trying to find an escape route instead of throwing the ball.
But it seemed that he would settle down about halfway through the 2nd quarter. That I just don't understand.
its an instinct that has to be unlearned now. no different than a kid that gets smacked all the time, anytime they hear a loud voice or somebody makes a sudden movement they flinch.... well KC got hit so much this year he is suffering from it. we have seen the same thing from other QBs, early on they stand in there and take the punishment, but over time they start to rush throws, have their mechanics get out of whack, tuck and run to soon, take check downs to early...etc. I said in early december that the team maybe needed to admit that this wasnt their year and to get Sloter some experience since KC was looking shell shocked already by then and there werent going to be any magic fixes to that OL.... of course our slim playoff hopes won out, but in hingsight I still think it would have maybe been a better option since the kid has really no bright lights experience.
But why would he settle down and play when the rush heated up? After the offense crapped the bed for 2 quarters and left the defense in bad spots, he would suddenly start to figure it out and play better.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
Watch at 1:13 remaining in Q2. Once Kirk escapes the pocket Thielen immediately turns his route back to about the 10 yard line where he is a readily available target and honestly the safer throw if ball placement leaves it towards the sideline.
The frustration isn't solely due to that one play though. I think it finally boiled over because Kirk typically will only take the underneath pass when flushed out of the pocket. There are many examples where he has open receivers down the field but he takes whats underneath because its the "check down". It's really something that's plagued Kirk going back to his days in Washington (minus the year with McVay).
A lot of people are saying he doesn't see the field and I partially agree with it. But bigger picture after being pressured so much all season long it finally got into his head that he just needs to take the first man available vs. trying to push the ball down the field. Kirk was a very different (timid) player compared to the guy we saw in say weeks 1 or 2.
Especially during the first and second quarter the last few games. Was that maybe because of the new OC and a lack of trust in the play call? KC was staring at the rush even when he had time, he looked like Ponder trying to find an escape route instead of throwing the ball.
But it seemed that he would settle down about halfway through the 2nd quarter. That I just don't understand.
its an instinct that has to be unlearned now. no different than a kid that gets smacked all the time, anytime they hear a loud voice or somebody makes a sudden movement they flinch.... well KC got hit so much this year he is suffering from it. we have seen the same thing from other QBs, early on they stand in there and take the punishment, but over time they start to rush throws, have their mechanics get out of whack, tuck and run to soon, take check downs to early...etc. I said in early december that the team maybe needed to admit that this wasnt their year and to get Sloter some experience since KC was looking shell shocked already by then and there werent going to be any magic fixes to that OL.... of course our slim playoff hopes won out, but in hingsight I still think it would have maybe been a better option since the kid has really no bright lights experience.
But why would he settle down and play when the rush heated up? After the offense crapped the bed for 2 quarters and left the defense in bad spots, he would suddenly start to figure it out and play better.
the changes are made to his protection? the defenses have backed off and are trying more to take away his options than to bury him? I dont know, but I know he isnt right in the head for the job and hasnt been mentally up to the task for quite a while this year.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
Watch at 1:13 remaining in Q2. Once Kirk escapes the pocket Thielen immediately turns his route back to about the 10 yard line where he is a readily available target and honestly the safer throw if ball placement leaves it towards the sideline.
The frustration isn't solely due to that one play though. I think it finally boiled over because Kirk typically will only take the underneath pass when flushed out of the pocket. There are many examples where he has open receivers down the field but he takes whats underneath because its the "check down". It's really something that's plagued Kirk going back to his days in Washington (minus the year with McVay).
A lot of people are saying he doesn't see the field and I partially agree with it. But bigger picture after being pressured so much all season long it finally got into his head that he just needs to take the first man available vs. trying to push the ball down the field. Kirk was a very different (timid) player compared to the guy we saw in say weeks 1 or 2.
Especially during the first and second quarter the last few games. Was that maybe because of the new OC and a lack of trust in the play call? KC was staring at the rush even when he had time, he looked like Ponder trying to find an escape route instead of throwing the ball.
But it seemed that he would settle down about halfway through the 2nd quarter. That I just don't understand.
its an instinct that has to be unlearned now. no different than a kid that gets smacked all the time, anytime they hear a loud voice or somebody makes a sudden movement they flinch.... well KC got hit so much this year he is suffering from it. we have seen the same thing from other QBs, early on they stand in there and take the punishment, but over time they start to rush throws, have their mechanics get out of whack, tuck and run to soon, take check downs to early...etc. I said in early december that the team maybe needed to admit that this wasnt their year and to get Sloter some experience since KC was looking shell shocked already by then and there werent going to be any magic fixes to that OL.... of course our slim playoff hopes won out, but in hingsight I still think it would have maybe been a better option since the kid has really no bright lights experience.
But why would he settle down and play when the rush heated up? After the offense crapped the bed for 2 quarters and left the defense in bad spots, he would suddenly start to figure it out and play better.
the changes are made to his protection? the defenses have backed off and are trying more to take away his options than to bury him? I dont know, but I know he isnt right in the head for the job and hasnt been mentally up to the task for quite a while this year.
Defenses don't tend to back off with a lead, they tend to turn up the heat.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
Watch at 1:13 remaining in Q2. Once Kirk escapes the pocket Thielen immediately turns his route back to about the 10 yard line where he is a readily available target and honestly the safer throw if ball placement leaves it towards the sideline.
The frustration isn't solely due to that one play though. I think it finally boiled over because Kirk typically will only take the underneath pass when flushed out of the pocket. There are many examples where he has open receivers down the field but he takes whats underneath because its the "check down". It's really something that's plagued Kirk going back to his days in Washington (minus the year with McVay).
A lot of people are saying he doesn't see the field and I partially agree with it. But bigger picture after being pressured so much all season long it finally got into his head that he just needs to take the first man available vs. trying to push the ball down the field. Kirk was a very different (timid) player compared to the guy we saw in say weeks 1 or 2.
Especially during the first and second quarter the last few games. Was that maybe because of the new OC and a lack of trust in the play call? KC was staring at the rush even when he had time, he looked like Ponder trying to find an escape route instead of throwing the ball.
But it seemed that he would settle down about halfway through the 2nd quarter. That I just don't understand.
its an instinct that has to be unlearned now. no different than a kid that gets smacked all the time, anytime they hear a loud voice or somebody makes a sudden movement they flinch.... well KC got hit so much this year he is suffering from it. we have seen the same thing from other QBs, early on they stand in there and take the punishment, but over time they start to rush throws, have their mechanics get out of whack, tuck and run to soon, take check downs to early...etc. I said in early december that the team maybe needed to admit that this wasnt their year and to get Sloter some experience since KC was looking shell shocked already by then and there werent going to be any magic fixes to that OL.... of course our slim playoff hopes won out, but in hingsight I still think it would have maybe been a better option since the kid has really no bright lights experience.
But why would he settle down and play when the rush heated up? After the offense crapped the bed for 2 quarters and left the defense in bad spots, he would suddenly start to figure it out and play better.
the changes are made to his protection? the defenses have backed off and are trying more to take away his options than to bury him? I dont know, but I know he isnt right in the head for the job and hasnt been mentally up to the task for quite a while this year.
Defenses don't tend to back off with a lead, they tend to turn up the heat.
depends on the situation, they will at times play to protect their lead and make the opposition play underneath to avoid big plays. not a full on prevent, but if they are getting pressure with their front 4 they play 7 in coverage and hope to force turnovers. I see this approach more than I see teams getting blitz happy with the lead, especially with a QB that is quick to take the check downs or quick timing routes.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
Watch at 1:13 remaining in Q2. Once Kirk escapes the pocket Thielen immediately turns his route back to about the 10 yard line where he is a readily available target and honestly the safer throw if ball placement leaves it towards the sideline.
The frustration isn't solely due to that one play though. I think it finally boiled over because Kirk typically will only take the underneath pass when flushed out of the pocket. There are many examples where he has open receivers down the field but he takes whats underneath because its the "check down". It's really something that's plagued Kirk going back to his days in Washington (minus the year with McVay).
A lot of people are saying he doesn't see the field and I partially agree with it. But bigger picture after being pressured so much all season long it finally got into his head that he just needs to take the first man available vs. trying to push the ball down the field. Kirk was a very different (timid) player compared to the guy we saw in say weeks 1 or 2.
Especially during the first and second quarter the last few games. Was that maybe because of the new OC and a lack of trust in the play call? KC was staring at the rush even when he had time, he looked like Ponder trying to find an escape route instead of throwing the ball.
But it seemed that he would settle down about halfway through the 2nd quarter. That I just don't understand.
its an instinct that has to be unlearned now. no different than a kid that gets smacked all the time, anytime they hear a loud voice or somebody makes a sudden movement they flinch.... well KC got hit so much this year he is suffering from it. we have seen the same thing from other QBs, early on they stand in there and take the punishment, but over time they start to rush throws, have their mechanics get out of whack, tuck and run to soon, take check downs to early...etc. I said in early december that the team maybe needed to admit that this wasnt their year and to get Sloter some experience since KC was looking shell shocked already by then and there werent going to be any magic fixes to that OL.... of course our slim playoff hopes won out, but in hingsight I still think it would have maybe been a better option since the kid has really no bright lights experience.
The problem with that explanation is that Cousins didn't get hit at any historic rate. Here are the numbers.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?conference=null&offensiveStatisticCategory=OFFENSIVE_LINE&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&season=2018&seasonType=REG&experience=&tabSeq=2&role=TM
Using total hits doesn't take account of the number of pass attempts, but even just using total hits, he was in the middle. Tally that as a hit percentage and I'm sure he was hit at a lesser percentage than most.
As to why the Theilen-Cousins connection fell off, my best guess is that Cousins didn't want to risk the throws. The pressure was mounting and I'm sure he heard about his turnovers losing games. Theilen was more covered later. Theilen was probably getting frustrated because all of last year his QB trusted him to go get the ball and those throws just didn't come this year. I forget what game it was, but there's also the Theilen quote saying that sh!t has been there all game.
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