I think its as simple as a player expanding their tool kit and a coaching staff working to get the most of their assets. I like it.
I think when you look at why our defense started to struggle at the end of the year, I think its pretty clear that Griffens injury played a large part of it. Furthermore, if you look at Griffen's injury, plantar fasciatis is something that players can have to deal with for multiple years. Griffen might have fully torn his, though. Either way, I think it highlighted the need for ensuring that we are able to get sufficient pass rush if one of our main pass rush threats isn't as able as they used to be. When I look at all our potential pass rush threats, Barr is probably still well above the project guys on the team. Firstly, getting more pass rush from the LBs allows us to be much more varied in the looks we present, and secondly if we really need to replace a Griffen type player, it might be more valuable to have Barr at DE just because DE pressure is so much more valuable than a coverage LB.
I really think there's more positives too this than potential negative outcomes.
Quote: @medaille said:
I think when you look at why our defense started to struggle at the end of the year, I think its pretty clear that Griffens injury played a large part of it. Furthermore, if you look at Griffen's injury, plantar fasciatis is something that players can have to deal with for multiple years. Griffen might have fully torn his, though. Either way, I think it highlighted the need for ensuring that we are able to get sufficient pass rush if one of our main pass rush threats isn't as able as they used to be. When I look at all our potential pass rush threats, Barr is probably still well above the project guys on the team. Firstly, getting more pass rush from the LBs allows us to be much more varied in the looks we present, and secondly if we really need to replace a Griffen type player, it might be more valuable to have Barr at DE just because DE pressure is so much more valuable than a coverage LB.
I really think there's more positives too this than potential negative outcomes.
I dont know about that, Barr has rarely shown a strong ability to get off blocks well, I dont know that he would automatically be better at a 43 DE position than guys that have been working at it the last few years. I can see some positives, but I dont know that I like the idea of moving our OLB to DE if Griff gets hurt... IMO its rarely a good idea to have 2 players new at a position due to 1 injury.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
Ok, so for the last couple weeks of camp we have heard about Barr working with the DEs on pass rushing, some have speculated that it was more an effort to get him better at getting off blocks when he blitzes from his LB spot, but others are convinced that he will be putting his hand in the dirt and coming off an end... Griff seems to agree that AB will be playing some end for us this year.... my question is why? going into a contract year, why are they handing his agent a reason to try and pull a bigger contract? lets say he does well in this new roll, are the Vikings then going to pay him like a top pass rusher and move Griff? are they going to showcase his talents early and then move him before the trade deadline? (in a push for a superbowl... highly unlikely) I dont understand the thought process here unless Zim has crazy new scheme that he wants to deploy and none of the other DEs that we have on the roster will fit the roll?
I still question the team setting up his agent to demand an even higher pay day considering it already looks like we wont be able to pay them all.
I think you're incorrectly thinking that the Vikings are a monolith. Zimmer's job is to win. I doubt he thinks too much about contracts. He probably thinks that Barr can add another dimension to his pass rush. And if that helps us win, I'm all for it. Think about what you're saying here. Damn, if I found out that Zimmer intentionally held something back in the interest of saving money, I'd be pretty pissed. And think about how Barr would feel.
I think this is simply finding a way to transform the defense and bring it to the next level. If you can turn Barr into a speed rusher off the edge it gives you the ability to get Linval off the field on pure passing downs and expand your blitz package. Everson can slide inside next to Richardson with Barr and Hunter on the edges. You have to like your chances that one of those guys is going to win 1x1 a majority of the time.
But the more unique concept is that if you bring Barr down onto the line you can use a safety/corner in the nickle LB spot without losing much size. It gives you a much bigger pass rushing arsenal conceptually since you can disguise your safety with that player and also drop Barr into coverage to rotate the side your rush attacks. In a nutshell you create a situation similar to the A-gap blitz where you can dictate how the QB calls his protection and then attack the mismatch to get unblocked rushers.
2 reasons. Barr is miscast in a 4-3 and has highest ceiling as a 3-4 end. i would guess you would see him standing up and down at end in this new wrinkle.
2nd, its another hedge as Hunter is coming due.
Coach Zimmer sees something there and he wants to utilize it. Why the hell not.
Quote: @ArizonaViking said:
Barr can rush the quarterback from the DE position or drop back in coverage. He's been doing that all along. the only difference is that on some plays he will start with his hand in the dirt. Really no big significance as far as I can see.
From my reading, the only "hand in the dirt" reference was from the subject of the thread on this site. I took it that he was working on the finer points of hand usage when he does blitz.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
I think this is simply finding a way to transform the defense and bring it to the next level. If you can turn Barr into a speed rusher off the edge it gives you the ability to get Linval off the field on pure passing downs and expand your blitz package. Everson can slide inside next to Richardson with Barr and Hunter on the edges. You have to like your chances that one of those guys is going to win 1x1 a majority of the time.
But the more unique concept is that if you bring Barr down onto the line you can use a safety/corner in the nickle LB spot without losing much size. It gives you a much bigger pass rushing arsenal conceptually since you can disguise your safety with that player and also drop Barr into coverage to rotate the side your rush attacks. In a nutshell you create a situation similar to the A-gap blitz where you can dictate how the QB calls his protection and then attack the mismatch to get unblocked rushers.
Yes, I see it as more as training a replacement for BRob than anyone else. Robison stands up in the B gap quite a bit on passing downs and is the cog that determines who rushes and where. He can drop in coverage, draw a double team, stunt or straight up rush. Not sure we have anyone else that can do all these things and Barr may be a good replacement there.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Ok, so for the last couple weeks of camp we have heard about Barr working with the DEs on pass rushing, some have speculated that it was more an effort to get him better at getting off blocks when he blitzes from his LB spot, but others are convinced that he will be putting his hand in the dirt and coming off an end... Griff seems to agree that AB will be playing some end for us this year.... my question is why? going into a contract year, why are they handing his agent a reason to try and pull a bigger contract? lets say he does well in this new roll, are the Vikings then going to pay him like a top pass rusher and move Griff? are they going to showcase his talents early and then move him before the trade deadline? (in a push for a superbowl... highly unlikely) I dont understand the thought process here unless Zim has crazy new scheme that he wants to deploy and none of the other DEs that we have on the roster will fit the roll?
I still question the team setting up his agent to demand an even higher pay day considering it already looks like we wont be able to pay them all.
I think you're incorrectly thinking that the Vikings are a monolith. Zimmer's job is to win. I doubt he thinks too much about contracts. He probably thinks that Barr can add another dimension to his pass rush. And if that helps us win, I'm all for it. Think about what you're saying here. Damn, if I found out that Zimmer intentionally held something back in the interest of saving money, I'd be pretty pissed. And think about how Barr would feel.
I am not saying its in the interest of saving money... as much as not losing the players. everybody tries to make that claim that makes it sound like its about being cheap, its about maybe sandbagging the player a bit in this contract season to maybe save a couple million in order maybe be able to resign another guy... I mean if this was in Barrs wheel house, then why are we only now seeing it in year 5? It strikes me as odd with the timing is all, why wait until the player has one foot out the door to try and increase his skill set? Has Barr turned a corner in the last year where he is suddenly in a better position to make this vast improvement in his contribution? I just dont see it. maybe it will be a new wrinkle, but I am not seeing the huge upside yet when I walk through who comes off and who could come on in a nickle situation. its not like we have a stud S on the sidelines or another LB that could really put things over the top when we send LJ to the bench for a pass rush specialist.
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