Quote: @dadevike said:
Our need at CB may be greater than our need at OL. And the drop off in the CB talent (after the 30th pick) may be greater than the drop off in OL talent.
I am not against drafting an OL in the first - though I would prefer an OT to an OG. But if the 2 best players available when the Vikings pick are an OL and a CB, I would prefer the CB.
Would a CB at pick 30 beat out Mack Alexander in the slot? Maybe, but I doubt it. This is Mack's 3rd season and that's pretty much what it takes a CB to "get it" in Zimmer's defense. Might be a year or two before we see contribution from a rookie CB, whereas we should get a nice boost from a RT who can bump Remmers inside.
What's more, with three 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder in the secondary (and the contracts that come with it), a lower cost veteran (maybe after June 1st) just seems to fit the cap puzzle better.
Quote: @"BarrNone55" said:
Will Hernandez - G - MinersNFL.com Analyst Bucky Brooks believes that UTEP G Will Hernandez could be a "missing" piece for the Vikings.
Hernandez is consistently grades as one of the best guards in the class, and if not for the ridiculousness that is Quenton Nelson he might be at the top. "The offensive line was vastly improved last season, but there is still a need for an upgrade at the guard position," writes Brooks. "Hernandez is a mauling run blocker and he's surprisingly nimble in pass protection. His physicality is a perfect fit for a team looking to close out wins with the running game." The only question is whether or not he'll still be around when Minnesota makes their 30th pick, so they may need to trade up to procure his services.
Source: NFL.com Apr 3 - 10:05 PM
I'm not seeing another prospect mocked to the Vikings more than the plus sized G...if you're going to have a dump truck on the line, RG is the place to plop one in...
I do not think putting hernandez at right guard is a good idea.
http://utepathletics.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=250
Started all 49 games played during career at the left guard position
I would hope they put him right where he has been over his collegiate career.
Moving him is a gamble and a guess. Like what they did with Fusco.
Quote: @MarkSP18 said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
Will Hernandez - G - MinersNFL.com Analyst Bucky Brooks believes that UTEP G Will Hernandez could be a "missing" piece for the Vikings.
Hernandez is consistently grades as one of the best guards in the class, and if not for the ridiculousness that is Quenton Nelson he might be at the top. "The offensive line was vastly improved last season, but there is still a need for an upgrade at the guard position," writes Brooks. "Hernandez is a mauling run blocker and he's surprisingly nimble in pass protection. His physicality is a perfect fit for a team looking to close out wins with the running game." The only question is whether or not he'll still be around when Minnesota makes their 30th pick, so they may need to trade up to procure his services.
Source: NFL.com Apr 3 - 10:05 PM
I'm not seeing another prospect mocked to the Vikings more than the plus sized G...if you're going to have a dump truck on the line, RG is the place to plop one in...
I do not think putting hernandez at right guard is a good idea.
http://utepathletics.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=250
Started all 49 games played during career at the left guard position
I would hope they put him right where he has been over his collegiate career.
Moving him is a gamble and a guess. Like what they did with Fusco.
What percent of college RT and RG end up in the pros vs what % of college LT and LG end up playing on the opposite side in the pro game? I dont know either, but I have to think that teams tend to put their better players on the QBs blind side that the better college linemen played over there as a whole, but at the next level many end up getting moved to the other side as they are not nearly as dominant in a much better talent pool. I agree that he would likely play sooner at LG, but will he fit in our scheme as a LG, or even at all?
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ dadevike said:
Our need at CB may be greater than our need at OL. And the drop off in the CB talent (after the 30th pick) may be greater than the drop off in OL talent.
I am not against drafting an OL in the first - though I would prefer an OT to an OG. But if the 2 best players available when the Vikings pick are an OL and a CB, I would prefer the CB.
Would a CB at pick 30 beat out Mack Alexander in the slot? Maybe, but I doubt it. This is Mack's 3rd season and that's pretty much what it takes a CB to "get it" in Zimmer's defense. Might be a year or two before we see contribution from a rookie CB, whereas we should get a nice boost from a RT who can bump Remmers inside.
What's more, with three 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder in the secondary (and the contracts that come with it), a lower cost veteran (maybe after June 1st) just seems to fit the cap puzzle better.
I think Mike Hughes would be an immediate upgrade. A couple of weeks ago, he would've been available at 30. Now, I don't think so. The Vikings obviously like him a lot or they wouldn't have brought him in today with the top 30. He was projected late in the first/early second. Casserly has him at 16 to the Puckers with his latest mock. I don't disagree on the depth of OLine talent. There are not as many blue chip guys, but there is solid starter potential in the 2nd and 3rd rounds so passing on one of the fringe 1st round OLine prospects like Kolton Miller for someone like Hughes or Reid at 30 would be a solid strategy, especially if we could grab someone like Cappa. To be honest, I don't know what the potential is for the two lineman we signed as FA's and if either of them could be plugged in and start at RG.
Quote: @TBro said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ dadevike said:
Our need at CB may be greater than our need at OL. And the drop off in the CB talent (after the 30th pick) may be greater than the drop off in OL talent.
I am not against drafting an OL in the first - though I would prefer an OT to an OG. But if the 2 best players available when the Vikings pick are an OL and a CB, I would prefer the CB.
Would a CB at pick 30 beat out Mack Alexander in the slot? Maybe, but I doubt it. This is Mack's 3rd season and that's pretty much what it takes a CB to "get it" in Zimmer's defense. Might be a year or two before we see contribution from a rookie CB, whereas we should get a nice boost from a RT who can bump Remmers inside.
What's more, with three 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder in the secondary (and the contracts that come with it), a lower cost veteran (maybe after June 1st) just seems to fit the cap puzzle better.
I think Mike Hughes would be an immediate upgrade. A couple of weeks ago, he would've been available at 30. Now, I don't think so. The Vikings obviously like him a lot or they wouldn't have brought him in today with the top 30. He was projected late in the first/early second. Casserly has him at 16 to the Puckers with his latest mock. I don't disagree on the depth of OLine talent. There are not as many blue chip guys, but there is solid starter potential in the 2nd and 3rd rounds so passing on one of the fringe 1st round OLine prospects like Kolton Miller for someone like Hughes or Reid at 30 would be a solid strategy, especially if we could grab someone like Cappa. To be honest, I don't know what the potential is for the two lineman we signed as FA's and if either of them could be plugged in and start at RG.
Maybe, but I think teams bring players in more when they have questions or need clarification on something, not necessarily because they're targeting them.
This time two years ago, Mack Alexander was considered by most to be a 1st round pick. For me it's less about Hughes than it is about the time it takes for corners to break in with Zimmer.
I would agree with you, tho, that the value seems to drop quicker at corner than it does at OL.
Quote: @dadevike said:
Our need at CB may be greater than our need at OL. And the drop off in the CB talent (after the 30th pick) may be greater than the drop off in OL talent.
I am not against drafting an OL in the first - though I would prefer an OT to an OG. But if the 2 best players available when the Vikings pick are an OL and a CB, I would prefer the CB.
Actually, I think you're right. If we don't go OL, my guess would be that we go CB.
I'm not really thrilled about the idea of spending another high pick on a corner. I get that Waynes and Alexander's contracts are up soon, that Newman is nearly at the end of his career, that corners take at least a year to adapt to Zimmer's scheme, and that coverage is a big part of the D. I just feel like Zimmer should be able to develop some mid to late round corners and leave the higher picks for OL, S, or TE. Even grabbing another linebacker would be prudent, since longterm decisions on Barr and Kendricks will need to be made soon.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
Will Hernandez - G - MinersNFL.com Analyst Bucky Brooks believes that UTEP G Will Hernandez could be a "missing" piece for the Vikings.
Hernandez is consistently grades as one of the best guards in the class, and if not for the ridiculousness that is Quenton Nelson he might be at the top. "The offensive line was vastly improved last season, but there is still a need for an upgrade at the guard position," writes Brooks. "Hernandez is a mauling run blocker and he's surprisingly nimble in pass protection. His physicality is a perfect fit for a team looking to close out wins with the running game." The only question is whether or not he'll still be around when Minnesota makes their 30th pick, so they may need to trade up to procure his services.
Source: NFL.com Apr 3 - 10:05 PM
I'm not seeing another prospect mocked to the Vikings more than the plus sized G...if you're going to have a dump truck on the line, RG is the place to plop one in...
I do not think putting hernandez at right guard is a good idea.
http://utepathletics.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=250
Started all 49 games played during career at the left guard position
I would hope they put him right where he has been over his collegiate career.
Moving him is a gamble and a guess. Like what they did with Fusco.
What percent of college RT and RG end up in the pros vs what % of college LT and LG end up playing on the opposite side in the pro game? I dont know either, but I have to think that teams tend to put their better players on the QBs blind side that the better college linemen played over there as a whole, but at the next level many end up getting moved to the other side as they are not nearly as dominant in a much better talent pool. I agree that he would likely play sooner at LG, but will he fit in our scheme as a LG, or even at all?
I don't know about any percentages. All I know is the dude played all 49 games at left guard and played well.
I am of the opinion that they should leave him there.
I do not know if he fits the scheme and I would not pretend to know what the scheme is to be honest.
It seems they like athletic linemen a bit.
It is interesting that the Vikings have not even met with Hernandez yet. I could not find any news. I could not even find any news of them going to the UTEP pro day.
Yet, the mock drafts are driving the supposed interest.
Perhaps the linemen they have met with are the ones they truly are interested like Price, Ragnow, Quessenberry, McGlinchey, Williams, Cappa, and Matthew Gono.
It would be funny if they only drafted Alex Cappa and Matthew Gono.
Quote: @Tyr said:
I'm not really thrilled about the idea of spending another high pick on a corner. I get that Waynes and Alexander's contracts are up soon, that Newman is nearly at the end of his career, that corners take at least a year to adapt to Zimmer's scheme, and that coverage is a big part of the D. I just feel like Zimmer should be able to develop some mid to late round corners and leave the higher picks for OL, S, or TE. Even grabbing another linebacker would be prudent, since longterm decisions on Barr and Kendricks will need to be made soon.
Has Zimmer done that? I really have no idea. It took Waynes, a high first rounder, at least a year to not be a liability at CB. And longer still to become a good corner. We are picking 30 this time. The Vikings' stable of CBs is pretty empty. I would hate to rely on Sherels.
CB seems like a position where if you are not really good, you are going to get killed by the likes of Rodgers, Stafford, Brees, Ryan,Wentz/Foles, Goff, ... Our OL situation is not anyehere near yhat precarious. I just do not see the Vikings going OL with the first pick.
Quote: @dadevike said:
@ Tyr said:
I'm not really thrilled about the idea of spending another high pick on a corner. I get that Waynes and Alexander's contracts are up soon, that Newman is nearly at the end of his career, that corners take at least a year to adapt to Zimmer's scheme, and that coverage is a big part of the D. I just feel like Zimmer should be able to develop some mid to late round corners and leave the higher picks for OL, S, or TE. Even grabbing another linebacker would be prudent, since longterm decisions on Barr and Kendricks will need to be made soon.
Has Zimmer done that? I really have no idea. It took Waynes, a high first rounder, at least a year to not be a liability at CB. And longer still to become a good corner. We are picking 30 this time. The Vikings' stable of CBs is pretty empty. I would hate to rely on Sherels.
CB seems like a position where if you are not really good, you are going to get killed by the likes of Rodgers, Stafford, Brees, Ryan,Wentz/Foles, Goff, ... Our OL situation is not anyehere near yhat precarious. I just do not see the Vikings going OL with the first pick.
It's a fair question, it seems like most of Zimmer's corners in Cincy were high draft picks. There were some reclamation projects like Pacman Jones, but he was still a top 10 pick. Is it just a case that teams are able to find zone corners later in the draft, but the players with the skills for man coverage are naturally drafted early.
We had a long time where the Vikings would seemingly never invest high picks in the secondary, which was a period when they were running Tampa 2 zone coverage, but now it seems like every other year they are spending a top pick on a corner. It's fine as long as it works, though both Waynes and Alexander have had significant growing pains, but considering our need right now is a 4th corner who could eventually step up to a bigger role in a year or two, I'd just like to prioritize some other parts of the roster first and circle back to corner in the 3rd-5th rounds. Then maybe grab another corner late in the draft.
The OL was better last year, but they still have a lot of room for improvement. The big thing for them is to not get complacent and keep trying to upgrade the talent there. You could make the same argument at CB, but I'd still like to hit some other needs in the 1st and 2nd rounds, though maybe they can't reliably find man corners after that point.
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