Tragedy in Kansas City

[Guest]

This is what happens when you put people with no morals to close together. 

[Guest]

@AGRforever said:
This is what happens when you put people with no morals to close together. 

I'm curious who you mean, in that crowd.

[Guest]

@BigAl99 said:

@pattersaur said:

@BigAl99 said:
I wouldn't be surprised if one of the three was a good guy with a gun, in a crowd of million. 

Mind elaborating? I don't follow your meaning.

Three folks are in custody with no explanation.  With the mainstreaming of CC and open carry culture, the situation will occur when someone accidentally gets shot by someone doing a good guy thing with his gun.  I think it is as inevitable as a car accident, Just speculating, say I won't be surprised when it happens..

Got it. Well time will tell regarding this parade tragedy. I agree the circumstance you mentioned will happen eventually. Thanks for expounding, I appreciate it.

[Guest]

Unfortunately it's not going to end because of how much division there is on the issue and the approach to take

[Guest]

Full disclosure I am about as far from a straight party ticket voter as they come. I'm fiscally a conservative and liberal on social issues. So this isn't your typical tribalism take on gun control. But pro gun citizens and pro gun politicians like to use mental illness as a rallying cry for the cause of gun violence in America. They then vote against increasing funding for mental health services. And in many states like Iowa go one step further and absolutely gut the system by making massive cuts to both mental illness and substance abuse services. Don't get me started on privatized Medicaid. 

I have worked in mental health for over 20 years and not only in that time span, but my time on Earth (43 years) no one entity has done more to set back accessibility to mental health in the country than the Republican party. It started with Regan dumping the Mental Health Systems act in 80 and opening the flood gates to institutions. Hasn't stopped since. So if Republicans dont believe ease of access to weapons is the problem. But rather mental illness is, cool Ill consider that hypothesis. But it sure would be nice if they stopped the empty "thoughts and prayers" reactions. And started to prove they actually believe it is a mental illness problem by voting as such. Otherwise it's simply lip service.   

[Guest]

There are too many mentally ill who have access to guns
There is a big gang culture in the US 
There are too many people who have no regard for human life for whatever circumstance they've been subjected to or how they were reared. 

I'm hearing now this all stemmed from some dispute, so lets whip out the guns and start shooting at each other. Probably tennis shoes, some weed or someone was F'ing someone else's booty. 

[Guest]

So when it's not mental illness,  can we agre that in a lot of cases it's a lack of law with teeth?  This happens all the time in an era of light on crime policy,  more and more we hear about criminal acting without fear of reprisal and then act outraged or confused when it escalates?

We have a society problem more than anything IMO,  can't point to one cause on a problem as diverse and complex as violence towards others.

[Guest]

@Zanary said:

@AGRforever said:
This is what happens when you put people with no morals to close together. 

I'm curious who you mean, in that crowd.

Gang members aren’t known for their morals. These shootings are predominantly being carried out by gang members. 

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:
So when it's not mental illness,  can we agre that in a lot of cases it's a lack of law with teeth?  This happens all the time in an era of light on crime policy,  more and more we hear about criminal acting without fear of reprisal and then act outraged or confused when it escalates?

We have a society problem more than anything IMO,  can't point to one cause on a problem as diverse and complex as violence towards others.

Glad you brought this up. I haven't had to speak on the topic yet this year so my presentation isn't updated from last year. But 60 plus % of those incarcerated have a DIAGNOSED severe mental health issue. Safe to say tens of thousands more are undiagnosed.

People with a severe mental health diagnosis are more likely to be the victim of a violent crime than the perpetrator. But "sane man commits mass shooting" doesn't have quite the same ring with news orgs trying to get views and clicks.

The largest provider of mental health in this country is not community mental health centers, hospitals, private practices or mental health walk-in clinics. It's jails and prisons. And by a wide margin. So you rally for being tougher on crime which is great and all.

But there are those so severely ill and under treated that no amount of "throwing the book at them" is going to put a dent in recidivism. You can't imprison mental illness away. Frankly you're going to increase it significantly by continued incarceration.

I will only speak on behalf of the many members of law enforcement I've joined on community mental health panels. But across the board they say yes they want more funding. Not for guns, tactical gear, tanks or specialized tactical training.

But rather for mental health first aid training and other trainings that give them the tools to deal with and deescalate mentally ill people they encounter. The use of mental health courts. More social workers to do ride alongs to deescalate and connect the mentally ill with the appropriate resources. Rather than taking up valuable jail cells and hospital beds.

Communities that have invested in rebuilding the community mental health approach stripped away in the 80's show incredible progress with reduced recidivism. Not to mention law enforcement spending less man hours dealing with disturbances by mentally ill and more time enforcing the law. And therefore being tougher on crime.

If anyone wants a high level few of what law enforcement deals with in terms of mental illness I strongly suggest the book  "Anyplace But Here: The Uncomfortable Convergence Between Mental Illness and the Criminal Justice System" by sheriff Tony Thompson.

[Guest]

@bigbone62 said:

@JimmyinSD said:
So when it's not mental illness,  can we agre that in a lot of cases it's a lack of law with teeth?  This happens all the time in an era of light on crime policy,  more and more we hear about criminal acting without fear of reprisal and then act outraged or confused when it escalates?

We have a society problem more than anything IMO,  can't point to one cause on a problem as diverse and complex as violence towards others.

Glad you brought this up. I haven't had to speak on the topic yet this year so my presentation isn't updated from last year. But 60 plus % of those incarcerated have a DIAGNOSED severe mental health issue. Safe to say tens of thousands more are undiagnosed.

People with a severe mental health diagnosis are more likely to be the victim of a violent crime than the perpetrator. But "sane man commits mass shooting" doesn't have quite the same ring with news orgs trying to get views and clicks.

The largest provider of mental health in this country is not community mental health centers, hospitals, private practices or mental health walk-in clinics. It's jails and prisons. And by a wide margin. So you rally for being tougher on crime which is great and all.

But there are those so severely ill and under treated that no amount of "throwing the book at them" is going to put a dent in recidivism. You can't imprison mental illness away. Frankly you're going to increase it significantly by continued incarceration.

I will only speak on behalf of the many members of law enforcement I've joined on community mental health panels. But across the board they say yes they want more funding. Not for guns, tactical gear, tanks or specialized tactical training.

But rather for mental health first aid training and other trainings that give them the tools to deal with and deescalate mentally ill people they encounter. The use of mental health courts. More social workers to do ride alongs to deescalate and connect the mentally ill with the appropriate resources. Rather than taking up valuable jail cells and hospital beds.

Communities that have invested in rebuilding the community mental health approach stripped away in the 80's show incredible progress with reduced recidivism. Not to mention law enforcement spending less man hours dealing with disturbances by mentally ill and more time enforcing the law. And therefore being tougher on crime.

If anyone wants a high level few of what law enforcement deals with in terms of mental illness I strongly suggest the book  "Anyplace But Here: The Uncomfortable Convergence Between Mental Illness and the Criminal Justice System" by sheriff Tony Thompson.

Good stuff here.