Quote: @supafreak84 said:
I thought it was a mistake not hiring him. Would anybody trade KOC for him now?
You can probably thank Jim Stapleton for that set of circumstances.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I thought it was a mistake not hiring him. Would anybody trade KOC for him now?
He's a hell of a coach, but I also like KOC. I really don't have an issue right now with it but who knows in the next couple years? I'm not giving up already on the new regime in Minnesota, far from it. But to each their own.
It's well known I'm not a fan of the front office or the process by which this front office was hired. KOC was a dice roll, which I'd normally be okay with....but not at the expense of bringing in a proven commodity and winner like Harbaugh. The guy has won everywhere he's been and I've been pounding the table for him in Minnesota since early Stanford days. I would bet the decision to hire KOC over Harbaugh had everything to do with a new GM not wanting to relinquish any control in building this team, which you'd expect to have to give up on some level when you bring Harbaugh in as your coach. Easier to bring in a fresh "yes" man with no prior experience. This is year 3 though for the new regime and its a put up or shut up offseason because we are falling behind in the division..
I don't have any issue with what you've said, its your opinion. My retort would be its pretty tough to judge the staff by this season with all the injuries: it colors the effectiveness of everything. That's how I look at it. I've been frustrated at various times throughout the year for sure, but nothing that has me questioning the entire organization. I actually thought KOC did some pretty good coaching at times with the hand he was dealt. Other times as a play caller, he had me irritated. Probably pretty normal as a fan and being mostly reactive. I try and keep some perspective. My retort would be you can certainly judge the handling/bumbling of the backup QB situation, a complete lack of commitment to the run game, and zero in game adjustments on both sides of the ball. These are all fair issues to judge. Like I said, it's a put up or shut up year for the coaching staff and front office.
lol, way too harsh. This is fan stuff here you are spewing. Listen, you can put all the ultimatums you want out there, KOC and KAM will definitely have more than just next year to prove themselves no matter how much raging against the machine you do. What fans glean as 'fair' or not is in the eye of the beholder....and most fans vision is definitely short-sighted and lacks clarity.
Of course it's fan stuff, but it's also fair stuff when reasonably evaluating where we were lacking. It's no secret and was obvious in most games. You want to give them a pass, cool...but doesn't mean these weren't issues this season that need to be addressed. As far as KAM and KOC go, they might get another season (maybe more) with the Wilfs, but that doesn't mean either were the right men for the job or that this isn't the most pivotal offseason of their tenures. We need a big offseason because these other teams in the division or only getting better
Quote: @mgobluevikes said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I thought it was a mistake not hiring him. Would anybody trade KOC for him now?
You can probably thank Jim Stapleton for that set of circumstances.
You think Stapleton had that much influence with the Vikings? I'm not convinced of that. He's just a minority owner.
I think its simply that KOC blew them away in the interviews - more than Harbaugh.
Clearly things have worked out well for Harbaugh. Hopefully they work out well for us too. It’s early and the jury’s out.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I thought it was a mistake not hiring him. Would anybody trade KOC for him now?
He's a hell of a coach, but I also like KOC. I really don't have an issue right now with it but who knows in the next couple years? I'm not giving up already on the new regime in Minnesota, far from it. But to each their own.
It's well known I'm not a fan of the front office or the process by which this front office was hired. KOC was a dice roll, which I'd normally be okay with....but not at the expense of bringing in a proven commodity and winner like Harbaugh. The guy has won everywhere he's been and I've been pounding the table for him in Minnesota since early Stanford days. I would bet the decision to hire KOC over Harbaugh had everything to do with a new GM not wanting to relinquish any control in building this team, which you'd expect to have to give up on some level when you bring Harbaugh in as your coach. Easier to bring in a fresh "yes" man with no prior experience. This is year 3 though for the new regime and its a put up or shut up offseason because we are falling behind in the division..
I don't have any issue with what you've said, its your opinion. My retort would be its pretty tough to judge the staff by this season with all the injuries: it colors the effectiveness of everything. That's how I look at it. I've been frustrated at various times throughout the year for sure, but nothing that has me questioning the entire organization. I actually thought KOC did some pretty good coaching at times with the hand he was dealt. Other times as a play caller, he had me irritated. Probably pretty normal as a fan and being mostly reactive. I try and keep some perspective. My retort would be you can certainly judge the handling/bumbling of the backup QB situation, a complete lack of commitment to the run game, and zero in game adjustments on both sides of the ball. These are all fair issues to judge. Like I said, it's a put up or shut up year for the coaching staff and front office.
lol, way too harsh. This is fan stuff here you are spewing. Listen, you can put all the ultimatums you want out there, KOC and KAM will definitely have more than just next year to prove themselves no matter how much raging against the machine you do. What fans glean as 'fair' or not is in the eye of the beholder....and most fans vision is definitely short-sighted and lacks clarity.
You are right about one thing. The Wilf's have never been very good at holding people accountable for Mediocre Results on the Field. They give their GM's and Coaches very long leashes before making a change. Something would have to go really sideways for Kwesi and KOC to not get their full 4 years.
The question I have for Kwesi is this. Does he have the balls to NOT bring back Cousins, draft a Rookie QB that will free up money to fill other roster holes to field a more competitive team, and set himself up for a long run at GM? I'm not convinced he wants to bring Cousins back. At least not at the money Cousins' Camp wanted last offseason and will want this offseason. If he did, they would've gotten a deal done last year. He also has to step up and be the definitive leader of this franchise which is what he was hired to do. This "Competitive Rebuild" nonsense has got to stop. We are in a full on rebuild. Embrace it and retool. What's Kwesi's philosophy? What is the identity of the Team he oversees? All I see so far with him is overcast skies. He needs to do what's best for the long term future of this franchise even if KOC doesn't like the decisions he is making in the short term. He's had 2 years to evaluate this roster. Does he really want to run it back with Cousins and try to fill the obvious holes with below average role players? Some other QB desperate team will offer Cousins Daniel Jones money. Is he going to start holding KOC accountable for identifying and developing the QB of the Future, or play it safe with Kirko? Stay Tuned. We will know by the March 13th deadline.
I think you have to draft a rook qbotf with the intent he is going to sit year 1.
An ideal scenario imo is you draft that kid this year, you sign KC to be on roster 2 years and take advantage of having a lot of firepower and pedigree in JJ/Addison/TJH...
And they will have enough $ to fill some holes in FA and draft for D too.
Unless you have inside information, we may never know the truth, but the rumors seems to be that Harbaugh was a heavy favorite until he showed up for his interview acting like it was a formality instead of an interview. From a personality standpoint, I think KOC was a better fit, although he has not proven to be the coach on the field that we needed, I do feel he has done a lot of positive things that justify giving him more time. The main problem with this team this year was not KOC, but the incredible drain of the talent pool on this team. There was no way of making up for the injuries on this team with the lack of depth and overall quality starters. We have some franchise altering decisions to make with Cousins and Hunter and we are picking higher in the draft than usual, based on the last two years, I have no confidence in Kwesi making those decisions.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
I think you have to draft a rook qbotf with the intent he is going to sit year 1.
An ideal scenario imo is you draft that kid this year, you sign KC to be on roster 2 years and take advantage of having a lot of firepower and pedigree in JJ/Addison/TJH...
And they will have enough $ to fill some holes in FA and draft for D too.
IMO, the only way you get your cake and eat it too (keeping Cousins and have real money for FA) is if you kick Kirks next contract into future years, which imo is just plain stupide to get into that habit, especially with an aging player, we are already about 30 million in on Kirk for the next 2 years, how many future seasons do you want to fuck away with carrying huge cap hits from players that are no longer on the roster?
the only way I sit down with Kirk is if the total money out of the cap for the next 2 years for him ( money already spent + new money ) is around 70-80 million, with NO cap hits being push into void years. We are going to have players that need big contracts in 26 and beyond, why would we be willing to risk those seasons for another shot at mediocrity with Kirk in 24 and 25?
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
I think you have to draft a rook qbotf with the intent he is going to sit year 1.
An ideal scenario imo is you draft that kid this year, you sign KC to be on roster 2 years and take advantage of having a lot of firepower and pedigree in JJ/Addison/TJH...
And they will have enough $ to fill some holes in FA and draft for D too.
I think the plan is to draft a qb and resign KC.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I thought it was a mistake not hiring him. Would anybody trade KOC for him now?
You can probably thank Jim Stapleton for that set of circumstances.
You think Stapleton had that much influence with the Vikings? I'm not convinced of that. He's just a minority owner.
I think its simply that KOC blew them away in the interviews - more than Harbaugh.
I think that KOC was chosen because he was the shiny new thing, polar opposite of the jaded, resting bitch face, Zimmer. Pair that with the fact that someone in-house was painting a really ugly picture of Harbaugh based on personal animus, sprinkled in with the narrative that Harbaugh can't get along with management (according to Baalke with the 49er's), hadn't YET gotten it done at Michigan.
Harbaugh's a weird guy, but aren't all HC's? I think he's misunderstood, if not hated by the media, and some fans because he refuses to play their game. He comes off awkward as hell, but I think he has a core of people he trusts and everybody else can eff off. In the end, he can manage a football staff, has a vision and a plan, and has proven he can get it done on every level. Things KOC hasn't done.
|
