Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Kentis said:
Do you guys really think Kwazy will bet his GM career on Cousins w/o ever taking a draft swing at a top level QB? I have my doubts…
if he gives KC the extension, which IMO he backed himself into by not being more aggressive at a QBOTF in the last 2 drafts, and then giving KC his previous extension with the dead money on the next 2 years, I think he has essentially already tied himself to Cousins. Unless KC really shocks me and plays for peanuts and doesnt handcuff the franchise, but if we do give Kirk 2 more years at numbers most expect, kick more cap into future years, and we dont see a proven QBOTF come out of this draft, and the team doesnt really seriously contend for a SB ( finally start looking like a real contender by winning games comfortably and controlling their own destiny) I see KAM and likely KOC on the hot seat after next year, and possibly out when KCs new deal would expire at the end of 25.
And we as fans will have endured another fruitless GM/coach cycle. It's all a risk when hiring, but this was more so my concern when brining in KAM and his very limited football experience.
Just food for thought, but where would this team be now and heading into the future with Spytek and Harbaugh guiding the franchise, because those were real options. There's nobody in the league that thought Tampa wasn't going to be a bottom 5 team this season. Instead they are division leaders with Baker Mayfield doing his best Jeff Garcia impression, and Harbaugh has Michigan conference champions again on the cusp of the college playoff.
Kirk has been with the Vikings for 6 years.
4 years, I think its safe to say we wont even have made it to the playoffs.
2 years we made the playoffs, but we didn’t do much of anything.
Loss to the Giants in the wildcard pretty much sums things up with Kirk.
Running it back again and hoping for different results just doesn't seem like a winning strategy to me.
But thats all up to Kwesi and Koc.
@ Norse said: Quote:
Kirk has been with the Vikings for 6 years.
4 years, I think its safe to say we wont even have made it to the playoffs.
2 years we made the playoffs, but we didn’t do much of anything.
Loss to the Giants in the wildcard pretty much sums things up with Kirk.
Running it back again and hoping for different results just doesn't seem like a winning strategy to me.
But thats all up to Kwesi and Koc.
A strong Defense and Offense is needed for success. We didn't have a good defense last year. IMO, it is totally wrong to place all the blame for playoff loss in 2022 on the QB. I'd give him another chance, especially with an improved defense. JMO
Quote: @TBro said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ Mattyman said:
Kirks gonna want a 2 year deal. With at least 30? (Low end guess) Million per year
He's already got 29 million dollar cap hit whenever he does leave....
Add Hunter, JJ and darrisaw and the Vikings will be tight against the cap thru 2026
You're certain kwesi is gonna sign up for that?
$30mm wont happen...
I suspect it will be closer to $40mm - maybe with more incentives built in then b4:
https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback
I agree. I think it will need to be a 3 year deal with significant salary guarantees that will be around $38 Million per year plus incentives to get over $40M. The QB market ratchets up a lot in 2024. I also think Cousin's dead cap hit is also factoring into him resigning here so they don't have to eat $28.5M and let him walk for nothing.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/202...arterback/
Unfortunately, signing Cousins will likely come at the expense of not being able to sign Hunter unless Brez can get really creative. Fingers crossed.
We still need to be all in for drafting a QBOTF in the 1st or 2nd rounds. At least we gained a lot of draft position in our loss to the Lions. If we can lose the next two weeks, I feel pretty good about getting a decent QB in the draft. We currently sit at 15 with GB at 12. A loss to the packers would inch us closer to the top ten.
If we sign Kirk for 3 years, the team shouldn’t use an early pick on a guy so he can sit for 3 years. Two at the absolute most, imo. Sitting forever under Rodgers doesn’t seem to have done much for Love. We’ll see how Hooker fares if he ever gets a shot in Detroit.
However, if we do give Kirk 3 years and draft a QB, I really hope Kirk’s deal bucks modern QB contract norms and the money is front-loaded so that KC can be dealt after year 2 if need be. That way if the kid is ready then he can get in there. The idea of drafting say, Jayden Daniels, and cementing him to the pine for three years seems like lunacy to me. I would seriously question a plan like this. But what do I know :p
Quote: @IDVikingfan said:
@Norse said:
Kirk has been with the Vikings for 6 years.
4 years, I think its safe to say we wont even have made it to the playoffs.
2 years we made the playoffs, but we didn’t do much of anything.
Loss to the Giants in the wildcard pretty much sums things up with Kirk.
Running it back again and hoping for different results just doesn't seem like a winning strategy to me.
But thats all up to Kwesi and Koc.
A strong Defense and Offense is needed for success. We didn't have a good defense last year. IMO, it is totally wrong to place all the blame for playoff loss in 2022 on the QB. I'd give him another chance, especially with an improved defense. JMO
How improved will that defense be when you cant afford to keep the best player/players over there because of your contracts for that QB?
Its not Kirk thats holding the team back, but his contract is certainly doing its part.
We need improved starters at key positions and some better depth at most positions if we are going to make a real run, that will be tough with all the dead money as well as paying market for Kirk along with other contracts that need to be dealt with.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ Norse said:
Kirk has been with the Vikings for 6 years.
4 years, I think its safe to say we wont even have made it to the playoffs.
2 years we made the playoffs, but we didn’t do much of anything.
Loss to the Giants in the wildcard pretty much sums things up with Kirk.
Running it back again and hoping for different results just doesn't seem like a winning strategy to me.
But thats all up to Kwesi and Koc.
A strong Defense and Offense is needed for success. We didn't have a good defense last year. IMO, it is totally wrong to place all the blame for playoff loss in 2022 on the QB. I'd give him another chance, especially with an improved defense. JMO
How improved will that defense be when you cant afford to keep the best player/players over there because of your contracts for that QB?
Its not Kirk thats holding the team back, but his contract is certainly doing its part.
We need improved starters at key positions and some better depth at most positions if we are going to make a real run, that will be tough with all the dead money as well as paying market for Kirk along with other contracts that need to be dealt with.
They only have Hunter who can get pressure and nothing really in the cupboard. Too bad they wasted so many picks that busted on the back end.
From an ownership view;
If KAM brings back Cousins then we must win next season and I mean getting to the SB or that could be the straw.
Letting Cousins go and going after McCarthy, Penix, or Nix should get KAM and KOC 2 seasons.
Either way, watching KOC call plays and get conservative is not something I want to watch.
So perhaps I might just check the standings every few weeks next season and if our record is good in week 12 then I may watch the last few games.
Quote: @pattersaur said:
@ TBro said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ Mattyman said:
Kirks gonna want a 2 year deal. With at least 30? (Low end guess) Million per year
He's already got 29 million dollar cap hit whenever he does leave....
Add Hunter, JJ and darrisaw and the Vikings will be tight against the cap thru 2026
You're certain kwesi is gonna sign up for that?
$30mm wont happen...
I suspect it will be closer to $40mm - maybe with more incentives built in then b4:
https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback
I agree. I think it will need to be a 3 year deal with significant salary guarantees that will be around $38 Million per year plus incentives to get over $40M. The QB market ratchets up a lot in 2024. I also think Cousin's dead cap hit is also factoring into him resigning here so they don't have to eat $28.5M and let him walk for nothing.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/202...arterback/
Unfortunately, signing Cousins will likely come at the expense of not being able to sign Hunter unless Brez can get really creative. Fingers crossed.
We still need to be all in for drafting a QBOTF in the 1st or 2nd rounds. At least we gained a lot of draft position in our loss to the Lions. If we can lose the next two weeks, I feel pretty good about getting a decent QB in the draft. We currently sit at 15 with GB at 12. A loss to the packers would inch us closer to the top ten.
If we sign Kirk for 3 years, the team shouldn’t use an early pick on a guy so he can sit for 3 years. Two at the absolute most, imo. Sitting forever under Rodgers doesn’t seem to have done much for Love. We’ll see how Hooker fares if he ever gets a shot in Detroit.
However, if we do give Kirk 3 years and draft a QB, I really hope Kirk’s deal bucks modern QB contract norms and the money is front-loaded so that KC can be dealt after year 2 if need be. That way if the kid is ready then he can get in there. The idea of drafting say, Jayden Daniels, and cementing him to the pine for three years seems like lunacy to me. I would seriously question a plan like this. But what do I know :p
I don't disagree, but I think Kirk will have enough interest from other QB desperate teams to leverage a 3 year deal. With the resurgence of Flacco, Rodgers' ability to play at a high level at 40, what Tom Brady did in Tampa, what Stafford continues to do with the Rams at the same age as Kirk, etc. Cousins has plenty of shelf life left and I don't see the Vikings having any leverage to get him to take a 1-2 year team friendly deal since this will likely be his last big contract.
This will be one of the toughest decisions KAM and KOC have to make this offseason. Hitch their Vikings' careers to Cousins, or let him walk and draft his replacement. We will know in March when the league season begins.
Quote: @TBro said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ TBro said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ Mattyman said:
Kirks gonna want a 2 year deal. With at least 30? (Low end guess) Million per year
He's already got 29 million dollar cap hit whenever he does leave....
Add Hunter, JJ and darrisaw and the Vikings will be tight against the cap thru 2026
You're certain kwesi is gonna sign up for that?
$30mm wont happen...
I suspect it will be closer to $40mm - maybe with more incentives built in then b4:
https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback
I agree. I think it will need to be a 3 year deal with significant salary guarantees that will be around $38 Million per year plus incentives to get over $40M. The QB market ratchets up a lot in 2024. I also think Cousin's dead cap hit is also factoring into him resigning here so they don't have to eat $28.5M and let him walk for nothing.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/202...arterback/
Unfortunately, signing Cousins will likely come at the expense of not being able to sign Hunter unless Brez can get really creative. Fingers crossed.
We still need to be all in for drafting a QBOTF in the 1st or 2nd rounds. At least we gained a lot of draft position in our loss to the Lions. If we can lose the next two weeks, I feel pretty good about getting a decent QB in the draft. We currently sit at 15 with GB at 12. A loss to the packers would inch us closer to the top ten.
If we sign Kirk for 3 years, the team shouldn’t use an early pick on a guy so he can sit for 3 years. Two at the absolute most, imo. Sitting forever under Rodgers doesn’t seem to have done much for Love. We’ll see how Hooker fares if he ever gets a shot in Detroit.
However, if we do give Kirk 3 years and draft a QB, I really hope Kirk’s deal bucks modern QB contract norms and the money is front-loaded so that KC can be dealt after year 2 if need be. That way if the kid is ready then he can get in there. The idea of drafting say, Jayden Daniels, and cementing him to the pine for three years seems like lunacy to me. I would seriously question a plan like this. But what do I know :p
I don't disagree, but I think Kirk will have enough interest from other QB desperate teams to leverage a 3 year deal. With the resurgence of Flacco, Rodgers' ability to play at a high level at 40, what Tom Brady did in Tampa, what Stafford continues to do with the Rams at the same age as Kirk, etc. Cousins has plenty of shelf life left and I don't see the Vikings having any leverage to get him to take a 1-2 year team friendly deal since this will likely be his last big contract.
This will be one of the toughest decisions KAM and KOC have to make this offseason. Hitch their Vikings' careers to Cousins, or let him walk and draft his replacement. We will know in March when the league season begins.
Agree completely. I don’t think the Vikings have any leverage with Kirk outside of letting him walk, especially if KO and our franchise player both truly do want him back. What little leverage we do have is out the window at that point.
My thing is just that if they’re in with Kirk, go all in. Don’t also use a first round pick on a QB. To me it can’t be both, which is why I prefer option B of just moving on, however hard it might be. But I’d take option A of re-signing Kirk over trying to do both. To me that just increases the likelihood that we continue to float around in purgatory for a few more years.
The uncertainty of the achilles almost forces the Vikings to go QB high in the next draft.
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