We have this already in the U.S., except they don't work....

[Guest]

@medaille said:

@BigAl99 said:

@medaille said:
It’s just the symptom of the corruptness in our institutions.


Our society has destroyed the American dream.  We used to have a plan laid out for us.  We’d go to school.  We’d get a job that wasn’t perfect, but wasn’t
horrible and use that money to buy a house and start a family.  That’s dead now.  The amount of income you need to own a home
or even to rent a home is vastly outpacing people’s ability to earn money.  For many people, there is no amount of
working that will buy them a home.  What’s
the point of getting a job when the money from the job can’t buy you what you
need.


We used to live in a world, where there was some amount of
respect by the elites where they would acquire all the wealth, but we wouldn’t
notice because prices were still affordable. 
The gloves are off now.  They’re no
longer concerned with our well-being to the extent that the illusion can be
maintained.

When are you talking about?  Just curious, when in history are you talking about?  I think it's more wistful thinking.  We are a capitalist "society", you always had to have an angle or leverage to get ahead.  Is it the American dream that we all get there together or "I" have a way to get ahead and have more than you.    

I think you probably have a more narrow definition of what
the American Dream is, one that is akin to mansions and Bentley’s, etc., like
that we all can become Elon Musk or Bill Gates or whatever.  My definition, which I think is pretty
typical, is that anyone who wants to work can live a comfortable life, own a
home, vacation, have a family, pursue their own happiness, etc.


There’s a large stretch of time where Americans were able to
live the “American Dream”, but it’s been slowly disappearing over time.  In the 50’s any man could go be a laborer in
a factory and earn enough to support his family. Then when we went off the gold
standard and started doing fractional reserve banking with entirely fiat
currency, we started inflating the currency, which mostly went into the pockets
of the already rich.  We got 2.5% raises
to match 2.5% inflation and their stock portfolios went up 8% a year, mostly
fueled by the new money that was created.   Fractional Reserve Banking means that new
money is created when someone takes on more debt, so there is a downward spiral
that happens where society has to get more and more indebted to create the money
to pay of the interest payments from previous debts.  Then feminism happened, and women entered the
work force, but instead of both adults in a family doing half as much work or
potentially the man staying home while the woman worked, somehow it meant that both
members now needed to work full time to earn enough to support the household,
but mortgages were reasonable, but as we go up the inflation/debt curve which
is exponential, each generation needs to take on more and more debt to stay
afloat.  We used to have 10-15 year
mortgages, then 20, then 25, then 30, and we’re now at the point where new
generations can’t take on enough debt to make it work.  Things cost so much that now you have to live
with your parents who are paying a mortgage from 20 years ago or pack more income
earning adults into the same households.

 That sounds like it's coming from a white male.  Those laborer job's in the 50s you speak of were not open to everyone at the same wage.  The rest is a pretty specious argument.   I have mentored a number young professionals in my field and one thing I stressed was the job market is very much tied to technology and you need to stay current or in front of the curve if you want to get ahead.    An analog to this would be in the late 70s a person could be make a great living with the key skill of word processing.  I worked many years in factories, union and non-union since the late 70s and laborers have never been provided a great living wage.  If a machinist couldn't operate CNC equipment he was de-graded to a machine operator, today's systems changing a CNC operators into machine tenders, programs are now integrated in the CAD process.  Seems like your saying you are entitled living wage by having a  minimum skill. 

Are you for a higher minimum wage or do you support the tacit service tax called tipping in excess of 20%?

[Guest]

@BigAl99 said:

 That sounds like it's coming from a white male.  Those laborer job's in the 50s you speak of were not open to everyone at the same wage.  The rest is a pretty specious argument.   I have mentored a number young professionals in my field and one thing I stressed was the job market is very much tied to technology and you need to stay current or in front of the curve if you want to get ahead.    An analog to this would be in the late 70s a person could be make a great living with the key skill of word processing.  I worked many years in factories, union and non-union since the late 70s and laborers have never been provided a great living wage.  If a machinist couldn't operate CNC equipment he was de-graded to a machine operator, today's systems changing a CNC operators into machine tenders, programs are now integrated in the CAD process.  Seems like your saying you are entitled living wage by having a  minimum skill. 

Are you for a higher minimum wage or do you support the tacit service tax called tipping in excess of 20%?

When was the last time you talked to "young professionals"?  I work with fresh from college engineers.  These are some of the most well prepared young adults to outcompete their peers in the market.  Go find some "young professionals" and ask them their opinions on student loans and the housing market.

I don't believe that people should be "entitled" to anything.  I believe that society is regressing because each generation is struggling more than the last despite the fact that technology is making dramatic advances in our productivity.  No amount of hard work is going to provide Gen Z the comfortable life that many of us have.  Minimum wage and tipping are band-aids slapped on top of a broken economic system.

[Guest]

@medaille said:

@BigAl99 said:

 That sounds like it's coming from a white male.  Those laborer job's in the 50s you speak of were not open to everyone at the same wage.  The rest is a pretty specious argument.   I have mentored a number young professionals in my field and one thing I stressed was the job market is very much tied to technology and you need to stay current or in front of the curve if you want to get ahead.    An analog to this would be in the late 70s a person could be make a great living with the key skill of word processing.  I worked many years in factories, union and non-union since the late 70s and laborers have never been provided a great living wage.  If a machinist couldn't operate CNC equipment he was de-graded to a machine operator, today's systems changing a CNC operators into machine tenders, programs are now integrated in the CAD process.  Seems like your saying you are entitled living wage by having a  minimum skill. 

Are you for a higher minimum wage or do you support the tacit service tax called tipping in excess of 20%?

When was the last time you talked to "young professionals"?  I work with fresh from college engineers.  These are some of the most well prepared young adults to outcompete their peers in the market.  Go find some "young professionals" and ask them their opinions on student loans and the housing market.

I don't believe that people should be "entitled" to anything.  I believe that society is regressing because each generation is struggling more than the last despite the fact that technology is making dramatic advances in our productivity.  No amount of hard work is going to provide Gen Z the comfortable life that many of us have.  Minimum wage and tipping are band-aids slapped on top of a broken economic system.

less than 4 hours ago, my son just moved from the east coast to Michagan, he is a writer and his wife just took a tenured position at a State University.  I  retired two years ago, I worked in the engineering field for about 40 years, built my first computer in 1979 using an intel 8080 8 bit processor.  Worked my way through the field starting in robotics and vision systems, pretty much all along I have led teams of young and mid career engineers as a project engineer, team leader and corporate staff engineer.  Companies like GE, Fanuc, Bosch, Danfoss, John Deere, Eaton….so yes i speak and interact quite a bit.  You speak in a broad generalities of “society” and “generation” like they are are simple monilithic groups.  I have discussed the topics of student debt, value of higher education, costs of entering and thriving in our society and guess what, there is no single response.  I was able to assist my children in getting post secondary educations debt free, One of their spouses had over 70 k in debt, which they payed off in short order.  I could go on with other ancedotal accounts of sucess and failure, but that would just get more garrulous.  

My issue is I see people talk about the “American Dream” as if it was a noun, something tangible like a quarter in their pocket as opposed to a subjective concept. If your a white male your argument about not being able to still make it as a laborer makes sense.  But in the 50’s as an Asian, Black or non white male, that laborer didn’t have the same “American Dream” entitlement you wistfully reflected on.   You mentioned gold somewhere in the saga of loss, what is it’s value? Can’t eat it, very hard to use for sheltering, can’t burn it for energy, only value is someone else's desire to have it, then you can trade it for something useful.  It’s a good stable conductor, but cost prohibitive compared to copper or aluminum.

[Guest]

@Vikergirl said:
The younger generation is getting squeezed out of the American dream. It is impossible to afford that dream. There is also the romanticized idea of the American dream, that gets a lot of mileage politically. I don't believe so much that there was respect from the elites but that blatant disdain is out in the open now. The elites exploited suffering during the pandemic and have gone into overdrive with that. The future generations are pushing back. Change is needed 

Have taught History for three decades, had the luxury of brilliant professors.

Its NOT “The American Revolution” in 1776. Its the “American war for Independence”

A revolution is against a “pre-established regime” we havent yet HAD an “American Revolution” but we SURE NEED ONE

[Guest]

@Vanguard83 said:

@Vikergirl said:
The younger generation is getting squeezed out of the American dream. It is impossible to afford that dream. There is also the romanticized idea of the American dream, that gets a lot of mileage politically. I don't believe so much that there was respect from the elites but that blatant disdain is out in the open now. The elites exploited suffering during the pandemic and have gone into overdrive with that. The future generations are pushing back. Change is needed 

Have taught History for three decades, had the luxury of brilliant professors.

Its NOT “The American Revolution” in 1776. Its the “American war for Independence”

A revolution is against a “pre-established regime” we havent yet HAD an “American Revolution” but we SURE NEED ONE

I like the sentiment,  but I am terrified for the results, it wont be Americans vs their govt'  it will be Americans vs Americans,  and I think that is exactly how the swamp and their globalist want it,  they dont want to actually take on America,  they want us to take ourselves out.

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:

@Vanguard83 said:

@Vikergirl said:
The younger generation is getting squeezed out of the American dream. It is impossible to afford that dream. There is also the romanticized idea of the American dream, that gets a lot of mileage politically. I don't believe so much that there was respect from the elites but that blatant disdain is out in the open now. The elites exploited suffering during the pandemic and have gone into overdrive with that. The future generations are pushing back. Change is needed 

Have taught History for three decades, had the luxury of brilliant professors.

Its NOT “The American Revolution” in 1776. Its the “American war for Independence”

A revolution is against a “pre-established regime” we havent yet HAD an “American Revolution” but we SURE NEED ONE

I like the sentiment,  but I am terrified for the results, it wont be Americans vs their govt'  it will be Americans vs Americans,  and I think that is exactly how the swamp and their globalist want it,  they dont want to actually take on America,  they want us to take ourselves out.

Agreed.

[Guest]

Paint the American flag green and put the dollar bill sign on it. By the people, for the people has long since been perverted. Also all men are created equal.....until they are born!