Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ purplefaithful said:
People like black and white. Good or bad. Competitive rebuild is too nebulous for most fans.
This. Folks complain about the living in today and tomorrow as if that's a bad thing. But that's what they should be doing.
Unless you believe the team should be torn down, which I think is absurd, you’re literally trying to set up a dominant roster for the future, while remaining a playoff team.
I believe that is called purgatory, or better known as mediocrity. Making the playoffs hasnt meant anything since they went to half the conference making the playoffs, hell it meant little more before that even, how often does a surprise team win a superbowl that hasnt undergone some major changes to really refocus their roster and add talent? ( the giants a few years back comes to mind as the last) I see "competitive rebuild" as ass covering for dragging out a decade of employment and not really every improving the teams chances for a Lombardi, break some damn eggs and get to making omlets IMO, but we are stuck for another year so buckle up for another exciting adventure.
Goessling pointed out that Kwesi frequently drops hints in pressers about "if we were doing it this other way", a clue that he is somewhat handcuffed due to the "super competitive" edict that comes out of Mark Wilf's mouth every time it opens.
Organizations are as good as the people at the top and don't be confused - the owners dictate the direction the ship sails, not the g.m. or the coach or anyone else. If you're happy with 10-7 and a playoff loss as a goal, then this ownership is perfect for you. Their p.r. says "We wanna win so bad!" but their actions say something entirely different. "We want to maximize profit and be good enough to keep the business revenue rolling." That is goal #1 and always will be. Getting you to buy in like "Oh my Super Bowl here we come" every year in August is their thing, and it works. Fans buy the same story out of ownership year after year, just like Charlie Brown buys that Lucy won't put him on his ass this time around.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ purplefaithful said:
People like black and white. Good or bad. Competitive rebuild is too nebulous for most fans.
This. Folks complain about the living in today and tomorrow as if that's a bad thing. But that's what they should be doing.
Unless you believe the team should be torn down, which I think is absurd, you’re literally trying to set up a dominant roster for the future, while remaining a playoff team.
I believe that is called purgatory, or better known as mediocrity. Making the playoffs hasnt meant anything since they went to half the conference making the playoffs, hell it meant little more before that even, how often does a surprise team win a superbowl that hasnt undergone some major changes to really refocus their roster and add talent? ( the giants a few years back comes to mind as the last) I see "competitive rebuild" as ass covering for dragging out a decade of employment and not really every improving the teams chances for a Lombardi, break some damn eggs and get to making omlets IMO, but we are stuck for another year so buckle up for another exciting adventure.
I know you think the panacea to our misery is a tank and tear down, but I couldn't disagree more. In fact, I think we're far FAR more likely to win a Super Bowl in the next 2-4 years doing exactly what we're doing.
I feel like this season answers many questions. Last year showed what a cultural/coaching shake-up could accomplish, but this season is very "prove it" for much of the team. Kirk, obviously, but also Hunter have to prove to be either foundational pieces or will be former players after this season. The same holds true for Harry. Hock will likely be extended, but he was sort of jammed into the existing gang last season and his real value will be shown this season. JJ is a no brainer, of course, but even he has a value cap.
I do not envy the GM job, whatsoever.-
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ purplefaithful said:
People like black and white. Good or bad. Competitive rebuild is too nebulous for most fans.
This. Folks complain about the living in today and tomorrow as if that's a bad thing. But that's what they should be doing.
Unless you believe the team should be torn down, which I think is absurd, you’re literally trying to set up a dominant roster for the future, while remaining a playoff team.
I have no problem with the approach, it's the lack of movement on locking up our core. What are we waiting for? To see if Jefferson continues to be great? Hint for our GM, he will be and he's not going to get any cheaper. Same for Hock... clearly he was a great acquisition and it is Kwesi's best move to date. Why aren't we locking him up now? I mean Evan Engram just got 14 mil per year, Hock is a better player and isn't going to get any cheaper as more data points get placed on the market.
Kwesi seems like a good dude, but I'm just not a fan of the big words and lack of action to this point. We have a couple easy decisions to keep the core of this team set up for Kirk or whoever our next QB is. Why wait? You can't say competitive rebuild because it isn't a competitive rebuild if you don't lock up your core talent. We have the space right now and in 2024 and beyond, show some conviction is all we're asking.
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ purplefaithful said:
People like black and white. Good or bad. Competitive rebuild is too nebulous for most fans.
This. Folks complain about the living in today and tomorrow as if that's a bad thing. But that's what they should be doing.
Unless you believe the team should be torn down, which I think is absurd, you’re literally trying to set up a dominant roster for the future, while remaining a playoff team.
I have no problem with the approach, it's the lack of movement on locking up our core. What are we waiting for? To see if Jefferson continues to be great? Hint for our GM, he will be and he's not going to get any cheaper. Same for Hock... clearly he was a great acquisition and it is Kwesi's best move to date. Why aren't we locking him up now? I mean Evan Engram just got 14 mil per year, Hock is a better player and isn't going to get any cheaper as more data points get placed on the market.
Kwesi seems like a good dude, but I'm just not a fan of the big words and lack of action to this point. We have a couple easy decisions to keep the core of this team set up for Kirk or whoever our next QB is. Why wait? You can't say competitive rebuild because it isn't a competitive rebuild if you don't lock up your core talent. We have the space right now and in 2024 and beyond, show some conviction is all we're asking.
The fact that we're already carrying 50 million in void/dead money next year might be part of it. That's 20% or more of the full cap, which is a big chunk to overcome.
https://purpleptsd.com/2023/vikings/viki...ings-2024/
Quote: @comet52 said:
Goessling pointed out that Kwesi frequently drops hints in pressers about "if we were doing it this other way", a clue that he is somewhat handcuffed due to the "super competitive" edict that comes out of Mark Wilf's mouth every time it opens.
Organizations are as good as the people at the top and don't be confused - the owners dictate the direction the ship sails, not the g.m. or the coach or anyone else. If you're happy with 10-7 and a playoff loss as a goal, then this ownership is perfect for you. Their p.r. says "We wanna win so bad!" but their actions say something entirely different. "We want to maximize profit and be good enough to keep the business revenue rolling." That is goal #1 and always will be. Getting you to buy in like "Oh my Super Bowl here we come" every year in August is their thing, and it works. Fans buy the same story out of ownership year after year, just like Charlie Brown buys that Lucy won't put him on his ass this time around.
I disagree with this about our ownership. They consistently spend to max CAP number and have since they took over. I am not sure what else they can do to show that they want to win-it-all?
Oh and our training facility and stadium are consistently ranked as one of the best.
Quote: @comet52 said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ purplefaithful said:
People like black and white. Good or bad. Competitive rebuild is too nebulous for most fans.
This. Folks complain about the living in today and tomorrow as if that's a bad thing. But that's what they should be doing.
Unless you believe the team should be torn down, which I think is absurd, you’re literally trying to set up a dominant roster for the future, while remaining a playoff team.
I have no problem with the approach, it's the lack of movement on locking up our core. What are we waiting for? To see if Jefferson continues to be great? Hint for our GM, he will be and he's not going to get any cheaper. Same for Hock... clearly he was a great acquisition and it is Kwesi's best move to date. Why aren't we locking him up now? I mean Evan Engram just got 14 mil per year, Hock is a better player and isn't going to get any cheaper as more data points get placed on the market.
Kwesi seems like a good dude, but I'm just not a fan of the big words and lack of action to this point. We have a couple easy decisions to keep the core of this team set up for Kirk or whoever our next QB is. Why wait? You can't say competitive rebuild because it isn't a competitive rebuild if you don't lock up your core talent. We have the space right now and in 2024 and beyond, show some conviction is all we're asking.
The fact that we're already carrying 50 million in void/dead money next year might be part of it. That's 20% or more of the full cap, which is a big chunk to overcome.
https://purpleptsd.com/2023/vikings/viki...ings-2024/
Yep, that's it. They need to shed some things to gain some wiggle room.
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ purplefaithful said:
People like black and white. Good or bad. Competitive rebuild is too nebulous for most fans.
This. Folks complain about the living in today and tomorrow as if that's a bad thing. But that's what they should be doing.
Unless you believe the team should be torn down, which I think is absurd, you’re literally trying to set up a dominant roster for the future, while remaining a playoff team.
I have no problem with the approach, it's the lack of movement on locking up our core. What are we waiting for? To see if Jefferson continues to be great? Hint for our GM, he will be and he's not going to get any cheaper. Same for Hock... clearly he was a great acquisition and it is Kwesi's best move to date. Why aren't we locking him up now? I mean Evan Engram just got 14 mil per year, Hock is a better player and isn't going to get any cheaper as more data points get placed on the market.
Kwesi seems like a good dude, but I'm just not a fan of the big words and lack of action to this point. We have a couple easy decisions to keep the core of this team set up for Kirk or whoever our next QB is. Why wait? You can't say competitive rebuild because it isn't a competitive rebuild if you don't lock up your core talent. We have the space right now and in 2024 and beyond, show some conviction is all we're asking.
I don't know. I'd rather he put much time, thought and consideration into these contracts and how they will need to work together as part of a long-term vision than just rush to get something signed.
Personally, if it were up to me, I'd get through training camp first. And I'd probably do TJH first. It will probably put him among the 5 highest paid TEs, but it's nowhere near what JJ's will be. Technically, JJ isn't even a free agent until 2025, so there's no big hurry on that one. And that seems to be true on both sides.
I could be wrong, but I don't think there are any WRs awaiting huge contracts this year, so I don't think there's a risk of paying more by waiting. And even if there were, Justin's going to the top of the WR market regardless.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ purplefaithful said:
People like black and white. Good or bad. Competitive rebuild is too nebulous for most fans.
This. Folks complain about the living in today and tomorrow as if that's a bad thing. But that's what they should be doing.
Unless you believe the team should be torn down, which I think is absurd, you’re literally trying to set up a dominant roster for the future, while remaining a playoff team.
I believe that is called purgatory, or better known as mediocrity. Making the playoffs hasnt meant anything since they went to half the conference making the playoffs, hell it meant little more before that even, how often does a surprise team win a superbowl that hasnt undergone some major changes to really refocus their roster and add talent? ( the giants a few years back comes to mind as the last) I see "competitive rebuild" as ass covering for dragging out a decade of employment and not really every improving the teams chances for a Lombardi, break some damn eggs and get to making omlets IMO, but we are stuck for another year so buckle up for another exciting adventure.
I know you think the panacea to our misery is a tank and tear down, but I couldn't disagree more. In fact, I think we're far FAR more likely to win a Super Bowl in the next 2-4 years doing exactly what we're doing.
I didnt say tank, I said be more proactive with players that are likely not the long term answer, like Cousin, like Hunter, etc if they have value now, but arent part of the long term plan as of now, quit fucking around and move them for value or if they are in the plans, get them under contract now for less than what it will cost next year, or if they wont sign a decent deal, then see the previous path. either way we will have a ton of cap space, but an empty closet and no additional draft capital to show for it.... and be picking in the middle to later part of each round. I know that higher draft picks fail too, but wouldnt you rather have your choice of the crop instead of letting 2/3 of the league get to pick ahead of you and still have the same expectation for success?
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