Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I think people are going to miss it, because he's expected to be the man, but Harry had a bad showing last year, largely due to how unorganized the rest of the D was, I think he makes a bigger impact this year in a better schemed system.
Bad showing? Dude had 5 INTs. He played as well as could be expected in Donatello's ultra conservative scheme. You can't penalize the guy for being asked to play a role he isn't ideally suited for. That said, Flores will play him a lot like Zimmer did where he'll be back in coverage but also allowed to come up to the LOS and blitz some.
yes, there were plenty of people talking about him being out of position, late to the play, etc last year. 5 picks is nice and all, but when you are part of a historically bad defense and arent a complete stand out, it looks bad. the scheme was the issue, which is why I am hoping in a new scheme that he can return to be the dominant player he had been from that position. He wasnt his usual self and that shows bad for him... thus bad showing. picks are largely lucky, bad throws, tipped balls, etc. nice stat line, but unless you read and jump a route, its mostly just luck of being at the right place at the right time for those previously mentioned occurrences.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
For most improved D player this year???
Any and all of them after last year's debacle.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I think people are going to miss it, because he's expected to be the man, but Harry had a bad showing last year, largely due to how unorganized the rest of the D was, I think he makes a bigger impact this year in a better schemed system.
Bad showing? Dude had 5 INTs. He played as well as could be expected in Donatello's ultra conservative scheme. You can't penalize the guy for being asked to play a role he isn't ideally suited for. That said, Flores will play him a lot like Zimmer did where he'll be back in coverage but also allowed to come up to the LOS and blitz some.
yes, there were plenty of people talking about him being out of position, late to the play, etc last year. 5 picks is nice and all, but when you are part of a historically bad defense and arent a complete stand out, it looks bad. the scheme was the issue, which is why I am hoping in a new scheme that he can return to be the dominant player he had been from that position. He wasnt his usual self and that shows bad for him... thus bad showing. picks are largely lucky, bad throws, tipped balls, etc. nice stat line, but unless you read and jump a route, its mostly just luck of being at the right place at the right time for those previously mentioned occurrences.
Do you minimize the accomplishments of all NFL players or just the Vikings?
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I think people are going to miss it, because he's expected to be the man, but Harry had a bad showing last year, largely due to how unorganized the rest of the D was, I think he makes a bigger impact this year in a better schemed system.
Bad showing? Dude had 5 INTs. He played as well as could be expected in Donatello's ultra conservative scheme. You can't penalize the guy for being asked to play a role he isn't ideally suited for. That said, Flores will play him a lot like Zimmer did where he'll be back in coverage but also allowed to come up to the LOS and blitz some.
yes, there were plenty of people talking about him being out of position, late to the play, etc last year. 5 picks is nice and all, but when you are part of a historically bad defense and arent a complete stand out, it looks bad. the scheme was the issue, which is why I am hoping in a new scheme that he can return to be the dominant player he had been from that position. He wasnt his usual self and that shows bad for him... thus bad showing. picks are largely lucky, bad throws, tipped balls, etc. nice stat line, but unless you read and jump a route, its mostly just luck of being at the right place at the right time for those previously mentioned occurrences.
Do you minimize the accomplishments of all NFL players or just the Vikings?
oh for Gods sake, I dont typically talk players from other teams, but yes, when a ball is thrown right to a guy standing in center field, I dont talk about how good of a job a guy did as it was a badly thrown ball, regardless of the players team. Harry has been one of my favorite players since his college days, this isnt about Harry. This about recognizing that 3 or4 of those 5 picks were more lucky than good, doesnt take away from how good of a player he is, just that it was IMO largely luck for most of those plays. I think the only one where he made the play due to his coverage and ball reading skills was when he outjumped the packer receiver. the other ones were tipped or over throws IIRC.... which is just luck, could have easily been tipped away from him, or not thrown badly. right place right time.
Plenty of good choices but I love the Harry pick. I think with Metellus, Bynum, Cine, there is going to be a lot of speed and coverage in the back end which will get Harry more flexibility in a Flores system.
I think Asamoah will turn some heads as well. We have some very athletic players in the back 7, I am curious on how they will all fit.
Could Metellus come down and play on the LB level in nickel/dime packages? Is our 4th safety better than our 3rd CB or 2nd ILB (Hicks?)
Quote: @Skodin said:
Plenty of good choices but I love the Harry pick. I think with Metellus, Bynum, Cine, there is going to be a lot of speed and coverage in the back end which will get Harry more flexibility in a Flores system.
I think Asamoah will turn some heads as well. We have some very athletic players in the back 7, I am curious on how they will all fit.
Could Metellus come down and play on the LB level in nickel/dime packages? Is our 4th safety better than our 3rd CB or 2nd ILB (Hicks?)
I want to see more Nickle and Dime, but with the added S on the field, I think the added athleticism you get with a S, even an aging Hitman, is better than having a lesser caliber LB out there. It would maybe be different if we were taking a stud LB off the field, but I dont think to much of our current LB corp.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I think people are going to miss it, because he's expected to be the man, but Harry had a bad showing last year, largely due to how unorganized the rest of the D was, I think he makes a bigger impact this year in a better schemed system.
Bad showing? Dude had 5 INTs. He played as well as could be expected in Donatello's ultra conservative scheme. You can't penalize the guy for being asked to play a role he isn't ideally suited for. That said, Flores will play him a lot like Zimmer did where he'll be back in coverage but also allowed to come up to the LOS and blitz some.
yes, there were plenty of people talking about him being out of position, late to the play, etc last year. 5 picks is nice and all, but when you are part of a historically bad defense and arent a complete stand out, it looks bad. the scheme was the issue, which is why I am hoping in a new scheme that he can return to be the dominant player he had been from that position. He wasnt his usual self and that shows bad for him... thus bad showing. picks are largely lucky, bad throws, tipped balls, etc. nice stat line, but unless you read and jump a route, its mostly just luck of being at the right place at the right time for those previously mentioned occurrences.
Do you minimize the accomplishments of all NFL players or just the Vikings?
oh for Gods sake, I dont typically talk players from other teams, but yes, when a ball is thrown right to a guy standing in center field, I dont talk about how good of a job a guy did as it was a badly thrown ball, regardless of the players team. Harry has been one of my favorite players since his college days, this isnt about Harry. This about recognizing that 3 or4 of those 5 picks were more lucky than good, doesnt take away from how good of a player he is, just that it was IMO largely luck for most of those plays. I think the only one where he made the play due to his coverage and ball reading skills was when he outjumped the packer receiver. the other ones were tipped or over throws IIRC.... which is just luck, could have easily been tipped away from him, or not thrown badly. right place right time.
And that's true for most guys getting interceptions. It's either the QB trying to force the ball into a tight window (bad throw/decision), tipped pass, etc. You can call it lucky (and in some cases it is) but if you're doing your job or hustling your ass to get to the ball and come away with an interception on a tipped ball, that's being a good football player. By your criteria, literally 75% (or more) of the interceptions by all the players in the NFL is more luck than good.
The fact you're saying he had a bad season because he was on a shitty defense is just wrong. He tied his season high in INTs in 2022 (he's had 5 multiple times now) and one off leading the league in INTs. He's also the active leader in INTs (34) amongst players still playing right now. He's had a knack for the creating turnovers his entire career so I'm not sure how he's suddenly out of position too much and losing a step when his season stats were right in line with his "best" years (I put that in quotes because if we start judging by your criteria, those were lucky years too).
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I think people are going to miss it, because he's expected to be the man, but Harry had a bad showing last year, largely due to how unorganized the rest of the D was, I think he makes a bigger impact this year in a better schemed system.
Bad showing? Dude had 5 INTs. He played as well as could be expected in Donatello's ultra conservative scheme. You can't penalize the guy for being asked to play a role he isn't ideally suited for. That said, Flores will play him a lot like Zimmer did where he'll be back in coverage but also allowed to come up to the LOS and blitz some.
yes, there were plenty of people talking about him being out of position, late to the play, etc last year. 5 picks is nice and all, but when you are part of a historically bad defense and arent a complete stand out, it looks bad. the scheme was the issue, which is why I am hoping in a new scheme that he can return to be the dominant player he had been from that position. He wasnt his usual self and that shows bad for him... thus bad showing. picks are largely lucky, bad throws, tipped balls, etc. nice stat line, but unless you read and jump a route, its mostly just luck of being at the right place at the right time for those previously mentioned occurrences.
Do you minimize the accomplishments of all NFL players or just the Vikings?
oh for Gods sake, I dont typically talk players from other teams, but yes, when a ball is thrown right to a guy standing in center field, I dont talk about how good of a job a guy did as it was a badly thrown ball, regardless of the players team. Harry has been one of my favorite players since his college days, this isnt about Harry. This about recognizing that 3 or4 of those 5 picks were more lucky than good, doesnt take away from how good of a player he is, just that it was IMO largely luck for most of those plays. I think the only one where he made the play due to his coverage and ball reading skills was when he outjumped the packer receiver. the other ones were tipped or over throws IIRC.... which is just luck, could have easily been tipped away from him, or not thrown badly. right place right time.
And that's true for most guys getting interceptions. It's either the QB trying to force the ball into a tight window (bad throw/decision), tipped pass, etc. You can call it lucky (and in some cases it is) but if you're doing your job or hustling your ass to get to the ball and come away with an interception on a tipped ball, that's being a good football player. By your criteria, literally 75% (or more) of the interceptions by all the players in the NFL is more luck than good.
The fact you're saying he had a bad season because he was on a shitty defense is just wrong. He tied his season high in INTs in 2022 (he's had 5 multiple times now) and one off leading the league in INTs. He's also the active leader in INTs (34) amongst players still playing right now. He's had a knack for the creating turnovers his entire career so I'm not sure how he's suddenly out of position too much and losing a step when his season stats were right in line with his "best" years (I put that in quotes because if we start judging by your criteria, those were lucky years too).
i said he had a bad showing... not a bad season, constantly trying to cover up for other mistakes, putting yourself out of position to hedge against what you know will be a blown coverage, or just a flat out bad scheme makes a lot of players show poorly. I didnt say it was his fault. you are splitting hairs and looking for a fight that isnt there. the question was who do you think will have the most improved season, I said Harry. you countered with 5 picks as some sort proof that his game wasnt lacking last year, i simply said picks arent necessarily indicative of a good football play in many cases. Not all picks are luck, but some are and most of Harrys last year were of that variety so you using lucky picks as a barometer of his play last year was flawed imo.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I think people are going to miss it, because he's expected to be the man, but Harry had a bad showing last year, largely due to how unorganized the rest of the D was, I think he makes a bigger impact this year in a better schemed system.
Bad showing? Dude had 5 INTs. He played as well as could be expected in Donatello's ultra conservative scheme. You can't penalize the guy for being asked to play a role he isn't ideally suited for. That said, Flores will play him a lot like Zimmer did where he'll be back in coverage but also allowed to come up to the LOS and blitz some.
yes, there were plenty of people talking about him being out of position, late to the play, etc last year. 5 picks is nice and all, but when you are part of a historically bad defense and arent a complete stand out, it looks bad. the scheme was the issue, which is why I am hoping in a new scheme that he can return to be the dominant player he had been from that position. He wasnt his usual self and that shows bad for him... thus bad showing. picks are largely lucky, bad throws, tipped balls, etc. nice stat line, but unless you read and jump a route, its mostly just luck of being at the right place at the right time for those previously mentioned occurrences.
Do you minimize the accomplishments of all NFL players or just the Vikings?
oh for Gods sake, I dont typically talk players from other teams, but yes, when a ball is thrown right to a guy standing in center field, I dont talk about how good of a job a guy did as it was a badly thrown ball, regardless of the players team. Harry has been one of my favorite players since his college days, this isnt about Harry. This about recognizing that 3 or4 of those 5 picks were more lucky than good, doesnt take away from how good of a player he is, just that it was IMO largely luck for most of those plays. I think the only one where he made the play due to his coverage and ball reading skills was when he outjumped the packer receiver. the other ones were tipped or over throws IIRC.... which is just luck, could have easily been tipped away from him, or not thrown badly. right place right time.
And that's true for most guys getting interceptions. It's either the QB trying to force the ball into a tight window (bad throw/decision), tipped pass, etc. You can call it lucky (and in some cases it is) but if you're doing your job or hustling your ass to get to the ball and come away with an interception on a tipped ball, that's being a good football player. By your criteria, literally 75% (or more) of the interceptions by all the players in the NFL is more luck than good.
The fact you're saying he had a bad season because he was on a shitty defense is just wrong. He tied his season high in INTs in 2022 (he's had 5 multiple times now) and one off leading the league in INTs. He's also the active leader in INTs (34) amongst players still playing right now. He's had a knack for the creating turnovers his entire career so I'm not sure how he's suddenly out of position too much and losing a step when his season stats were right in line with his "best" years (I put that in quotes because if we start judging by your criteria, those were lucky years too).
i said he had a bad showing... not a bad season, constantly trying to cover up for other mistakes, putting yourself out of position to hedge against what you know will be a blown coverage, or just a flat out bad scheme makes a lot of players show poorly. I didnt say it was his fault. you are splitting hairs and looking for a fight that isnt there. the question was who do you think will have the most improved season, I said Harry. you countered with 5 picks as some sort proof that his game wasnt lacking last year, i simply said picks arent necessarily indicative of a good football play in many cases. Not all picks are luck, but some are and most of Harrys last year were of that variety so you using lucky picks as a barometer of his play last year was flawed imo.
Oh, a bad SHOWING! Silly me, carry on.
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I think people are going to miss it, because he's expected to be the man, but Harry had a bad showing last year, largely due to how unorganized the rest of the D was, I think he makes a bigger impact this year in a better schemed system.
Bad showing? Dude had 5 INTs. He played as well as could be expected in Donatello's ultra conservative scheme. You can't penalize the guy for being asked to play a role he isn't ideally suited for. That said, Flores will play him a lot like Zimmer did where he'll be back in coverage but also allowed to come up to the LOS and blitz some.
yes, there were plenty of people talking about him being out of position, late to the play, etc last year. 5 picks is nice and all, but when you are part of a historically bad defense and arent a complete stand out, it looks bad. the scheme was the issue, which is why I am hoping in a new scheme that he can return to be the dominant player he had been from that position. He wasnt his usual self and that shows bad for him... thus bad showing. picks are largely lucky, bad throws, tipped balls, etc. nice stat line, but unless you read and jump a route, its mostly just luck of being at the right place at the right time for those previously mentioned occurrences.
Do you minimize the accomplishments of all NFL players or just the Vikings?
oh for Gods sake, I dont typically talk players from other teams, but yes, when a ball is thrown right to a guy standing in center field, I dont talk about how good of a job a guy did as it was a badly thrown ball, regardless of the players team. Harry has been one of my favorite players since his college days, this isnt about Harry. This about recognizing that 3 or4 of those 5 picks were more lucky than good, doesnt take away from how good of a player he is, just that it was IMO largely luck for most of those plays. I think the only one where he made the play due to his coverage and ball reading skills was when he outjumped the packer receiver. the other ones were tipped or over throws IIRC.... which is just luck, could have easily been tipped away from him, or not thrown badly. right place right time.
And that's true for most guys getting interceptions. It's either the QB trying to force the ball into a tight window (bad throw/decision), tipped pass, etc. You can call it lucky (and in some cases it is) but if you're doing your job or hustling your ass to get to the ball and come away with an interception on a tipped ball, that's being a good football player. By your criteria, literally 75% (or more) of the interceptions by all the players in the NFL is more luck than good.
The fact you're saying he had a bad season because he was on a shitty defense is just wrong. He tied his season high in INTs in 2022 (he's had 5 multiple times now) and one off leading the league in INTs. He's also the active leader in INTs (34) amongst players still playing right now. He's had a knack for the creating turnovers his entire career so I'm not sure how he's suddenly out of position too much and losing a step when his season stats were right in line with his "best" years (I put that in quotes because if we start judging by your criteria, those were lucky years too).
i said he had a bad showing... not a bad season, constantly trying to cover up for other mistakes, putting yourself out of position to hedge against what you know will be a blown coverage, or just a flat out bad scheme makes a lot of players show poorly. I didnt say it was his fault. you are splitting hairs and looking for a fight that isnt there. the question was who do you think will have the most improved season, I said Harry. you countered with 5 picks as some sort proof that his game wasnt lacking last year, i simply said picks arent necessarily indicative of a good football play in many cases. Not all picks are luck, but some are and most of Harrys last year were of that variety so you using lucky picks as a barometer of his play last year was flawed imo.
Oh, a bad SHOWING! Silly me, carry on.
yes silly you. have a good weekend.
|
