It's helpful to look at any potential trade from the perspective of the trading partner, rather than just from our perspective of he's great and we want a lot for him-because the deal will get made, if it gets made, somewhere in the middle of those two extremes.
So if I'm a g.m. looking to trade for Hunter, I'm going to offer a 2nd or maybe even a 3rd just to make it seem like I'm conceding when I up it to a 2nd, conditional on me and his agent working out a deal we can live with. That could hold up any trade if his demands don't make sense to any trade partner. He'll be 29 this fall and that is where the fall off begins for a lot of players. Also he has an injury history. I'll bring up all those argments when I tell the Vikings why I'm not paying a 1st for him.
The Vikings will counter with the various arguments made in this thread, and I suspect the deal would be something like a 2nd plus another pick, maybe a 3rd or more likely 4th. I think the team should hold out and try to find a partner who'd give up a 1st, but it's a tough sell imo.
You have to use other similar, recent trades involving pass rushers as the model. Here are some recent pass rusher trades;
- Bradley Chubb traded to Miami for 1st and 5th round picks.
- Von Miller to the Rams for 2nd and 3rd round picks. Miller was 32 at the time.
- Khalil Mack traded to Chicago for two 1st round picks. Mack traded again to the Chargers for a 2nd round pick in 2022.
To me you are talking about a package of high picks in any trade for Hunter. I think any contender in need of a pass rusher would happily part with a 1st round pick for an elite 28 year old pass rusher..
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
You have to use other similar, recent trades involving pass rushers as the model. Here are some recent pass rusher trades;
- Bradley Chubb traded to Miami for 1st and 5th round picks.
- Von Miller to the Rams for 2nd and 3rd round picks. Miller was 32 at the time.
- Khalil Mack traded to Chicago for two 1st round picks. Mack traded again to the Chargers for a 2nd round pick in 2022.
To me you are talking about a package of high picks in any trade for Hunter. I think any contender in need of a pass rusher would happily part with a 1st round pick for an elite 28 year old pass rusher..
Chubb is an interesting comp. He's two years younger than Hunter and was still on his rookie contract at the time of the trade. That makes a HUGE difference.
However, Hunter is twice the player Chubb is. I know all fans see is sacks, but Hunter is one of the league's best run defenders as well. For example, Hunter's career PFF grade averages in the 80s. Chubb barely scratches 60.
In terms of sacks, Hunter averages 1 sack per game started, which is utterly ridiculous. Chubb's is half that. Who's a bigger injury concern? When he was traded, Chubb had missed 23 games due to injury over the previous three seasons.
Vikings won't be able to get what the Broncos got for Chubb (age and contract), but whoever gets Hunter is going to get an epic steal. I think that's exactly why teams are calling.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
You have to use other similar, recent trades involving pass rushers as the model. Here are some recent pass rusher trades;
- Bradley Chubb traded to Miami for 1st and 5th round picks.
- Von Miller to the Rams for 2nd and 3rd round picks. Miller was 32 at the time.
- Khalil Mack traded to Chicago for two 1st round picks. Mack traded again to the Chargers for a 2nd round pick in 2022.
To me you are talking about a package of high picks in any trade for Hunter. I think any contender in need of a pass rusher would happily part with a 1st round pick for an elite 28 year old pass rusher..
Chubb is an interesting comp. He's two years younger than Hunter and was still on his rookie contract at the time of the trade. That makes a HUGE difference.
However, Hunter is twice the player Chubb is. I know all fans see is sacks, but Hunter is one of the league's best run defenders as well. For example, Hunter's career PFF grade averages in the 80s. Chubb barely scratches 60.
In terms of sacks, Hunter averages 1 sack per game started, which is utterly ridiculous. Chubb's is half that. Who's a bigger injury concern? When he was traded, Chubb had missed 23 games due to injury over the previous three seasons.
Vikings won't be able to get what the Broncos got for Chubb (age and contract), but whoever gets Hunter is going to get an epic steal. I think that's exactly why teams are calling.
Just looking at a couple teams that I'd assume would, or should have high interest would be Seattle and Baltimore. Seattle has no proven pass rushers, otherwise it's a pretty good looking roster and they should be a playoff team otherwise. The other team would be the Ravens who have no pass rush in what's become an arms race in the division and conference. I think it would make a lot of sense for either of these teams to go after Hunter and give up their 1st round pick, which would likely be a pick later in the round anyways. I just don't think the Vikings should deal him for anything other then a 1st on the heels of the Bradley Chubb deal
Work out the contract extension and don't worry about trade comp---Too damn good to walk away from for 2nd and change
Also Hunter led the NFL last season with 36 QB pressures on 3rd and 4th downs. So yeah, any trade package not including a 1st round pick and these teams can pound sand
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
Also Hunter led the NFL last season with 36 QB pressures on 3rd and 4th downs. So yeah, any trade package not including a 1st round pick and these teams can pound sand
so let me get this straight, you want the team to deal Cousins because he can walk after next year anyway, but Hunter you have to have a first round pick even though he is also likely to walk after the coming season and is also wanting top tier money? I dont understand the double standard, KC is more important to the O than DH to the D, KC is going to be harder to replace, and KC has been more durable. With both of them I only see about another year or 2 tops before the wheels fall off the wagon. Yes DH is likely higher ranked for his position, but DE is not nearly as valued as QB so taking a third for Cousins, but demanding a first for Hunter doesnt seem to be coming from the same place of logic to me.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Also Hunter led the NFL last season with 36 QB pressures on 3rd and 4th downs. So yeah, any trade package not including a 1st round pick and these teams can pound sand
so let me get this straight, you want the team to deal Cousins because he can walk after next year anyway, but Hunter you have to have a first round pick even though he is also likely to walk after the coming season and is also wanting top tier money? I dont understand the double standard, KC is more important to the O than DH to the D, KC is going to be harder to replace, and KC has been more durable. With both of them I only see about another year or 2 tops before the wheels fall off the wagon. Yes DH is likely higher ranked for his position, but DE is not nearly as valued as QB so taking a third for Cousins, but demanding a first for Hunter doesnt seem to be coming from the same place of logic to me.
What are you talking about? I'm not in favor of trading Hunter at all if the plan is to be competitive this season. However if they want to trade him, based on precedent and production, the Kwes-master better come out of that deal with at least a 1st round pick in return.
If they trade Hunter, then it doesn't make sense to me to hold on to Cousins and be "kinda good" while jettisoning all the other older veterans on the roster because we wont be competitive anyway. Trade him, take a tank year, regroup next offseason with a likely top ten pick, cap space, and bring in some actual impact young players that we can build around for the long term. Again, if they really wanted Cousins in the first place and thought he was "the guy" he'd already be signed to an extension and this wouldn't be a conversation, but he's not....therefor it is
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Also Hunter led the NFL last season with 36 QB pressures on 3rd and 4th downs. So yeah, any trade package not including a 1st round pick and these teams can pound sand
so let me get this straight, you want the team to deal Cousins because he can walk after next year anyway, but Hunter you have to have a first round pick even though he is also likely to walk after the coming season and is also wanting top tier money? I dont understand the double standard, KC is more important to the O than DH to the D, KC is going to be harder to replace, and KC has been more durable. With both of them I only see about another year or 2 tops before the wheels fall off the wagon. Yes DH is likely higher ranked for his position, but DE is not nearly as valued as QB so taking a third for Cousins, but demanding a first for Hunter doesnt seem to be coming from the same place of logic to me.
What are you talking about? I'm not in favor of trading Hunter at all if the plan is to be competitive this season. However if they want to trade him, based on precedent and production, the Kwes-master better come out of that deal with at least a 1st round pick in return.
If they trade Hunter, then it doesn't make sense to me to hold on to Cousins and be "kinda good" while jettisoning all the other older veterans on the roster because we wont be competitive anyway. Trade him, take a tank year, regroup next offseason with a likely top ten pick, cap space, and bring in some actual impact young players that we can build around for the long term. Again, if they really wanted Cousins in the first place and thought he was "the guy" he'd already be signed to an extension and this wouldn't be a conversation, but he's not....therefor it is
SO... if you are ok with them moving KC, since they dont think he is the guy, that would say they arent all in as well and moving Hunter would be a no brainer as well since they are both on the last year of their deals and neither have been re-signed to date.
I dont buy the competitive rebuild notion, if they keep fucking around with "competitive" the task of rebuilding a better roster is more challenging as you cant afford to make a run from the late teens to mid 20s to a top position if you are targeting real impact players at key positions like QB or even coveted DL. sure you can luck into some guys dropping, but I dont trust that we will take that guy anyway as there will always be some metric that says to take the WR.
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