Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Is it terrible that I wish Rick was still running things? Lol. Bring on the 7th rounders! At least we weren't getting fleeced by the Lions. Say what you want about Rick, but he did add some great talent to this roster...whether Zim actually utilized what was given to him correctly is a different conversation.
I don't think Spielman did a bad job at all. Underrated I think by Viking Nation overall. But I'm not going to shit on KAM yet. Way too early.
I am still a supporter of Spelly. I had predicted before last season if things went bad (as they did) that Zimmer would finally be gone. I put it at around 30/70 that Spelly would be gone with him. Of course, I didn't know that the season would come to an end with those 2 not even talking to each other for months - yikes! Zimmer's stubbornness and righteousness took Spelly down with him - IMO. I was hoping that Spelly would have shitcanned Zimmer 3 years ago, but he didn't and it cost him his job in the end.
I don't think Zimmer will ever be a NFL HC again and maybe not a coach at all.
Spelly will be a GM by next year.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
Is it terrible that I wish Rick was still running things? Lol. Bring on the 7th rounders! At least we weren't getting fleeced by the Lions. Say what you want about Rick, but he did add some great talent to this roster...whether Zim actually utilized what was given to him correctly is a different conversation.
as a personnel guy he did OK, but he wasnt a GM in that he wasnt running the team, IMO he was scared of Zim and that is why he is no longer here. as far as his talent accumulation... he did OK at certain positions, but was completely shit at things like OL, and remember he was the one that brought in Mannion, and resigned Mannion....as well as fan favorites like Dozier and a few other head scratchers over the years.
I would give him an OK grade, but as a fan of the team and wanting something more, I am glad he is gone, I just dont think he was capable of building and running a championship level team.
Lol... the legend of Mike Zimmer keeps growing. Now Spielman was scared of him and it cost him his job? C'mon Jimmy...
My gut feeling is that Spielman is out for 3 reasons.
- Toxic culture. He's as responsible as anyone else for the culture and no one was saying good things about his contribution to the culture and there was a few less than good reports.
- Bad drafting in recent years. I think he's probably average to above average over time, but he had several years in a row of misses and neglect on defense and we clearly were missing enough depth to allow us to put a functional defense on the field, after the elderly expensive players on defense got injured. The offense looks pretty good. He was also unable to field a functional OLine pretty much the whole time.
- Building an offensive team that was out of alignment with the HC he had and forcing an expensive QB on him that he didn't want. We all know Zimmers mindset of playing great defense and solid, mistake-free, ball-control offense. The team Spielman built didn't mesh with this reality, so instead of bringing in a HC that matches his vision, or bringing in guys to match the HC's vision, he built the team in his own vision and let Zimmer deal with it. I imagine this probably increased Zimmer's toxic attitude.
Quote: @medaille said:
My gut feeling is that Spielman is out for 3 reasons.
- Toxic culture. He's as responsible as anyone else for the culture and no one was saying good things about his contribution to the culture and there was a few less than good reports.
- Bad drafting in recent years. I think he's probably average to above average over time, but he had several years in a row of misses and neglect on defense and we clearly were missing enough depth to allow us to put a functional defense on the field, after the elderly expensive players on defense got injured. The offense looks pretty good. He was also unable to field a functional OLine pretty much the whole time.
- Building an offensive team that was out of alignment with the HC he had and forcing an expensive QB on him that he didn't want. We all know Zimmers mindset of playing great defense and solid, mistake-free, ball-control offense. The team Spielman built didn't mesh with this reality, so instead of bringing in a HC that matches his vision, or bringing in guys to match the HC's vision, he built the team in his own vision and let Zimmer deal with it. I imagine this probably increased Zimmer's toxic attitude.
This seems spot on and I’d add— I wonder why Spielman didn’t can Zim a year or two sooner? Most likely answer is that he wanted to but the Wilfs wouldn’t go for it. If you’re barely on speaking terms with the head coach it’s only a matter of time before one of you is gone. They both had to know that and now it’s both of them who are out. Just strange all around and sad it got to that point.
Quote: @Wetlander said:
Lol... the legend of Mike Zimmer keeps growing. Now Spielman was scared of him and it cost him his job? C'mon Jimmy...
I cant think of any other reason why he let shit go as long as he did and to devolve to the level that they did, I am not saying he was physically afraid zimmer was going to beat him up, I am saying ( and have said before ) I dont think Zim was Ricks choice as much as he was Parcells choice and we all know how the Wilfs thought the tuna walked on water. I think Rick was afraid to jerk the chain when it needed to be jerked and ultimately that led to his dismissal.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Is it terrible that I wish Rick was still running things? Lol. Bring on the 7th rounders! At least we weren't getting fleeced by the Lions. Say what you want about Rick, but he did add some great talent to this roster...whether Zim actually utilized what was given to him correctly is a different conversation.
I don't think Spielman did a bad job at all. Underrated I think by Viking Nation overall. But I'm not going to shit on KAM yet. Way too early.
I just have real concerns about KAM, his background, and his approach to things overall. The draft kind of confirmed those concerns for me. I didn't have those same concerns with Rick and was surprised when the Vikings let him go. Rick did his job in assembling talent, but he let Zimmer do the coaching and decide whom to play as he should. After one offseason of KAM I miss Slick Rick
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Is it terrible that I wish Rick was still running things? Lol. Bring on the 7th rounders! At least we weren't getting fleeced by the Lions. Say what you want about Rick, but he did add some great talent to this roster...whether Zim actually utilized what was given to him correctly is a different conversation.
I don't think Spielman did a bad job at all. Underrated I think by Viking Nation overall. But I'm not going to shit on KAM yet. Way too early.
I just have real concerns about KAM, his background, and his approach to things overall. The draft kind of confirmed those concerns for me. I didn't have those same concerns with Rick and was surprised when the Vikings let him go. Rick did his job in assembling talent, but he let Zimmer do the coaching and decide whom to play as he should. After one offseason of KAM I miss Slick Rick
I think there were plenty of areas of learning curve with Spielman that would have put him on even your chopping block, KAM deserves that same leash IMO. I dont like how he ran his draft, but I cant say much bad about the players he picked. Its likely going to take a bit more before I would wish to go back to Ricks way of doing things.
I give RS props for his drafting even with his penchant for trading down to accumulate later round picks. He did draft Diggs, Hunter & O'Neil and probably a couple more that escape me at the moment.
However, my biggest gripe was the godawful trades. The Bradford trade was the biggest & to be perfectly honest, I liked that trade at the time. Many fans forget that we had a veteran team that was built to win now & to say to the team that we're going to roll with the backup QB (who's name I've erased from my memory), would've sent the wrong message.
But, the 2 trades that stick out most in my mind is the Ngakoue trade & giving a 5th round pick to Balt. for Kaare Vedvik who never even made it out of training camp.
Although it wasn't a trade, how does cutting Daniel Carlson look now?
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Is it terrible that I wish Rick was still running things? Lol. Bring on the 7th rounders! At least we weren't getting fleeced by the Lions. Say what you want about Rick, but he did add some great talent to this roster...whether Zim actually utilized what was given to him correctly is a different conversation.
I don't think Spielman did a bad job at all. Underrated I think by Viking Nation overall. But I'm not going to shit on KAM yet. Way too early.
I just have real concerns about KAM, his background, and his approach to things overall. The draft kind of confirmed those concerns for me. I didn't have those same concerns with Rick and was surprised when the Vikings let him go. Rick did his job in assembling talent, but he let Zimmer do the coaching and decide whom to play as he should. After one offseason of KAM I miss Slick Rick
I think there were plenty of areas of learning curve with Spielman that would have put him on even your chopping block, KAM deserves that same leash IMO. I dont like how he ran his draft, but I cant say much bad about the players he picked. Its likely going to take a bit more before I would wish to go back to Ricks way of doing things.
The most maddening thing to me about Spielman was the accumulation of late round picks because he found value in not having to compete for players as undrafted free agents and could simply draft the guys he wanted. Otherwise I had no problems with Spielman and thought overall he did a good job assembling talent. Even his biggest draft busts, Matt Kalil and Christian Ponder, did anybody really have issue with drafting those players at the time? Kalil played a huge position of need for us and was thought to be the safest player in the draft. We had to have a QB in a draft class filled with shitty ones, and we took Ponder, who I also at the time felt had the most upside. It's not like he ever traded down 20 spots in the 1st round with a division rival for essentially a 3rd round pick so they could draft maybe the most talented player in the draft while we picked a safety.
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