Quote: @StickyBun said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
Regardless of the QB market there are going to be O-line and WR needy teams who might be willing to pay and move up into the #12 spot. The Vikings are wedged in a good spot where the teams behind them will threaten those positions where there still will be some good talent left on the board.
Agreed. If the Vikings want to trade down, they might get a pretty good deal to do so.
This is a perfect draft and spot to trade down at 12. There are the QB hungry reach teams and then there are the KC and Lions with 2 tail end round one picks. I can see the Chiefs really going after a WR at 12. We could get there 29th and 30th picks this year or maybe just their 29 this year, there 1st rounder next year, and maybe a late 3rd rounder this year....I think those points add up close.
Agree with Maroon that there are a couple guys that we would draft if they fell to 12 with Gardner being the prize - IMO. But I am pretty sure none of them will be there at 12 and I would move down to parlay.
If more than one team is interested in that spot, Kwesi needs to hold out for a premium price and not settle for the draft chart equivalent in points. Especially if some of our blue chip prospects we like are sitting there at 12. I thought Spielman was way too easy when negotiating with other teams. No matter what round, he always seemed to drop too far and miss out on quality players for stupid reaches and multiple 7th round draft picks. I honestly hope we stay at 12 and take BPA. Jameson Williams would be an intriguing pick at 12. His recovery is looking good.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ PurpleCrush said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
Regardless of the QB market there are going to be O-line and WR needy teams who might be willing to pay and move up into the #12 spot. The Vikings are wedged in a good spot where the teams behind them will threaten those positions where there still will be some good talent left on the board.
Do you know if there are certain prospects still on the board where the Vikings might say no way to any trade down proposals? I imagine if a guy like Gardner or so were to still be there that the Vikings might be hesitant to move out unless they get a king's ransom.
I would imagine there are several players that would make the Vikings stick and pick. Gardner's probably one of them, along with maybe Hutch, Thibodeaux, Hamilton, and Walker. A few who might make them squirm a little: Jermaine Johnson, Trent McDuffie and Derek Stingley.
I think they might stick and take Johnson if he gets to 12. Stingley I think they like and it would depend on the offer to move back. They won't take a discount obviously.
We haven't talked about Johnson much but I think he'd bring tremendous value to the Vikings in a 3-man rotation with Hunter/Smith. In the base 3-4 they can use Johnson as the primary edge setter since he is so good at it and rotate Hunter/Smith out. In the nickel it allows them to bounce Smith in to 3-tech where he is best and keep Hunter/Johnson as the edge rushers. There is a lot of value in that setup.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ PurpleCrush said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
Regardless of the QB market there are going to be O-line and WR needy teams who might be willing to pay and move up into the #12 spot. The Vikings are wedged in a good spot where the teams behind them will threaten those positions where there still will be some good talent left on the board.
Do you know if there are certain prospects still on the board where the Vikings might say no way to any trade down proposals? I imagine if a guy like Gardner or so were to still be there that the Vikings might be hesitant to move out unless they get a king's ransom.
I would imagine there are several players that would make the Vikings stick and pick. Gardner's probably one of them, along with maybe Hutch, Thibodeaux, Hamilton, and Walker. A few who might make them squirm a little: Jermaine Johnson, Trent McDuffie and Derek Stingley.
I think they might stick and take Johnson if he gets to 12. Stingley I think they like and it would depend on the offer to move back. They won't take a discount obviously.
We haven't talked about Johnson much but I think he'd bring tremendous value to the Vikings in a 3-man rotation with Hunter/Smith. In the base 3-4 they can use Johnson as the primary edge setter since he is so good at it and rotate Hunter/Smith out. In the nickel it allows them to bounce Smith in to 3-tech where he is best and keep Hunter/Johnson as the edge rushers. There is a lot of value in that setup.
Agree with everything youve said, but with the depth and our needs, I hope a trade back happens. I always like quantity when we lie in the ten to twenty area. Lets build depth in a year where we’re competitive but obviously not in a good position to win it all.
Quote: @Waterboy said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ PurpleCrush said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
Regardless of the QB market there are going to be O-line and WR needy teams who might be willing to pay and move up into the #12 spot. The Vikings are wedged in a good spot where the teams behind them will threaten those positions where there still will be some good talent left on the board.
Do you know if there are certain prospects still on the board where the Vikings might say no way to any trade down proposals? I imagine if a guy like Gardner or so were to still be there that the Vikings might be hesitant to move out unless they get a king's ransom.
I would imagine there are several players that would make the Vikings stick and pick. Gardner's probably one of them, along with maybe Hutch, Thibodeaux, Hamilton, and Walker. A few who might make them squirm a little: Jermaine Johnson, Trent McDuffie and Derek Stingley.
I think they might stick and take Johnson if he gets to 12. Stingley I think they like and it would depend on the offer to move back. They won't take a discount obviously.
We haven't talked about Johnson much but I think he'd bring tremendous value to the Vikings in a 3-man rotation with Hunter/Smith. In the base 3-4 they can use Johnson as the primary edge setter since he is so good at it and rotate Hunter/Smith out. In the nickel it allows them to bounce Smith in to 3-tech where he is best and keep Hunter/Johnson as the edge rushers. There is a lot of value in that setup.
Agree with everything youve said, but with the depth and our needs, I hope a trade back happens. I always like quantity when we lie in the ten to twenty area. Lets build depth in a year where we’re competitive but obviously not in a good position to win it all.
Johnson would be an excellent pick at 12 especially if Stingley is already gone. I would stay at 12 and take who you have rated the highest between Stingley, Johnson, Hamilton, Davis, Williams, or Lloyd who are all worthy selections at that spot. Waterboy, I understand that you want to add depth through the draft and I don't disagree we are thin in several key areas. However, this team needs blue chip impact players who can come in immediately and own a starting role on this team. The only exception to that list is Williams who will need some time to slowly work into the offense while he recovers from his ACL repair. The talent with him is just too good to pass up if the other players you like are gone.
I'm concerned that a trade down in the first would put us in that uncertain category of having to settle for a player who will have to work their way into a starting role. Jeff Gladney comes to mind who really struggled with Zimmer's defense and was at the bottom of the depth chart coming out of training camp. I like our chances of landing an immediate starter if we stay at 12 vs. a trade down scenario. We didn't need a receiver when we drafted Randy Moss and look how that turned out for us. I thought Spielman always drafted for need over BPA because he thought he could outsmart all of the other GM's with his trading skills. We always seemed to miss out on some great talent with his willingness to move down just to accumulate more mediocre talent. This year we are in a great position to land an impact player at 12 which is why I want to stay put.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ PurpleCrush said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
Regardless of the QB market there are going to be O-line and WR needy teams who might be willing to pay and move up into the #12 spot. The Vikings are wedged in a good spot where the teams behind them will threaten those positions where there still will be some good talent left on the board.
Do you know if there are certain prospects still on the board where the Vikings might say no way to any trade down proposals? I imagine if a guy like Gardner or so were to still be there that the Vikings might be hesitant to move out unless they get a king's ransom.
I would imagine there are several players that would make the Vikings stick and pick. Gardner's probably one of them, along with maybe Hutch, Thibodeaux, Hamilton, and Walker. A few who might make them squirm a little: Jermaine Johnson, Trent McDuffie and Derek Stingley.
I think they might stick and take Johnson if he gets to 12. Stingley I think they like and it would depend on the offer to move back. They won't take a discount obviously.
We haven't talked about Johnson much but I think he'd bring tremendous value to the Vikings in a 3-man rotation with Hunter/Smith. In the base 3-4 they can use Johnson as the primary edge setter since he is so good at it and rotate Hunter/Smith out. In the nickel it allows them to bounce Smith in to 3-tech where he is best and keep Hunter/Johnson as the edge rushers. There is a lot of value in that setup.
I think Johnson is the most underrated player in the 1st round. I rank him ahead of both Thibodeaux and Walker
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ PurpleCrush said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
Regardless of the QB market there are going to be O-line and WR needy teams who might be willing to pay and move up into the #12 spot. The Vikings are wedged in a good spot where the teams behind them will threaten those positions where there still will be some good talent left on the board.
Do you know if there are certain prospects still on the board where the Vikings might say no way to any trade down proposals? I imagine if a guy like Gardner or so were to still be there that the Vikings might be hesitant to move out unless they get a king's ransom.
I would imagine there are several players that would make the Vikings stick and pick. Gardner's probably one of them, along with maybe Hutch, Thibodeaux, Hamilton, and Walker. A few who might make them squirm a little: Jermaine Johnson, Trent McDuffie and Derek Stingley.
I think they might stick and take Johnson if he gets to 12. Stingley I think they like and it would depend on the offer to move back. They won't take a discount obviously.
We haven't talked about Johnson much but I think he'd bring tremendous value to the Vikings in a 3-man rotation with Hunter/Smith. In the base 3-4 they can use Johnson as the primary edge setter since he is so good at it and rotate Hunter/Smith out. In the nickel it allows them to bounce Smith in to 3-tech where he is best and keep Hunter/Johnson as the edge rushers. There is a lot of value in that setup.
Couldn't we just get a guy like Nik Bonitto then if its just for rotation. You can draft him in the 2nd and his rushing numbers per pass attempt are impressive.
Just my guess but I think 3 edge guys come off the board in the top 3 picks in whatever order you want in Hutchinson, Thibodaux, and Walker. Jermaine Johnson is likely going to one of the New York teams as the 4th edge in the top 10. I like him as a player, I would just be surprised to see him still on the board at 12 and don't see the need for us in contrast to some other highly ranked players that should still be on the board.
Just my guess for the Vikings...but this pick is going to come down to Stingley, Kyle Hamilton, or one of the receivers either at 12 or in a trade down.
Quote: @Canthony said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ PurpleCrush said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
Regardless of the QB market there are going to be O-line and WR needy teams who might be willing to pay and move up into the #12 spot. The Vikings are wedged in a good spot where the teams behind them will threaten those positions where there still will be some good talent left on the board.
Do you know if there are certain prospects still on the board where the Vikings might say no way to any trade down proposals? I imagine if a guy like Gardner or so were to still be there that the Vikings might be hesitant to move out unless they get a king's ransom.
I would imagine there are several players that would make the Vikings stick and pick. Gardner's probably one of them, along with maybe Hutch, Thibodeaux, Hamilton, and Walker. A few who might make them squirm a little: Jermaine Johnson, Trent McDuffie and Derek Stingley.
I think they might stick and take Johnson if he gets to 12. Stingley I think they like and it would depend on the offer to move back. They won't take a discount obviously.
We haven't talked about Johnson much but I think he'd bring tremendous value to the Vikings in a 3-man rotation with Hunter/Smith. In the base 3-4 they can use Johnson as the primary edge setter since he is so good at it and rotate Hunter/Smith out. In the nickel it allows them to bounce Smith in to 3-tech where he is best and keep Hunter/Johnson as the edge rushers. There is a lot of value in that setup.
Couldn't we just get a guy like Nik Bonitto then if its just for rotation. You can draft him in the 2nd and his rushing numbers per pass attempt are impressive.
personally.... I dont trust that both Hunter and Smith make a full season so if there is a high level guy there at that edge position... hard not to pull that trigger, if nothing else a rotation at that position is not a bad thing if you want to keep players fresh or give them a light week to get over things they would otherwise be forced to play through. AND it takes away a bit of the leverage from either of those 2 if they start barking "new deal".
Quote: @Canthony said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ PurpleCrush said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
Regardless of the QB market there are going to be O-line and WR needy teams who might be willing to pay and move up into the #12 spot. The Vikings are wedged in a good spot where the teams behind them will threaten those positions where there still will be some good talent left on the board.
Do you know if there are certain prospects still on the board where the Vikings might say no way to any trade down proposals? I imagine if a guy like Gardner or so were to still be there that the Vikings might be hesitant to move out unless they get a king's ransom.
I would imagine there are several players that would make the Vikings stick and pick. Gardner's probably one of them, along with maybe Hutch, Thibodeaux, Hamilton, and Walker. A few who might make them squirm a little: Jermaine Johnson, Trent McDuffie and Derek Stingley.
I think they might stick and take Johnson if he gets to 12. Stingley I think they like and it would depend on the offer to move back. They won't take a discount obviously.
We haven't talked about Johnson much but I think he'd bring tremendous value to the Vikings in a 3-man rotation with Hunter/Smith. In the base 3-4 they can use Johnson as the primary edge setter since he is so good at it and rotate Hunter/Smith out. In the nickel it allows them to bounce Smith in to 3-tech where he is best and keep Hunter/Johnson as the edge rushers. There is a lot of value in that setup.
Couldn't we just get a guy like Nik Bonitto then if its just for rotation. You can draft him in the 2nd and his rushing numbers per pass attempt are impressive.
Bonitto in the 2nd is what I have been thinking about too. CB in the first, even with a trade down, and then him in the second. If you pick up a 2nd with the trade back then pick a WR too
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