Quote: @VikingOracle said:
@ Vikergirl said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
I have come (already) to see this season as a placeholder. Zimm will win just enough games to screw our draft position and to crush our souls, but not enough to save his job. As I know my soul will be crushed, I have accepted my fate -- so it hurts less. There will be things to enjoy during the season, games won, games lost, individual improvement -- but I am thinking of the season as preseason for '23-'24 when the Vikes will be off the Cousins contract, the new coaching staff will have had a year to mold the Vikings into their image, etc.
I am hoping the Zilfs learned from their last two head coaching hires.
Wow, you see a very specific future. I guess you really are an Oracle. ;-)
All that is certainly possible. But I think it's more likely we make the playoffs behind 10 or 11 wins and both Cousins and Zimmer are extended.
I am generally very optimistic but I am not seeing that. I am hoping that Kubiak can make some progress. Of course then he will probably end up going elsewhere.
BTW, and this is pure speculation, I think one of the reasons young Kubiak is OC is because the Ziggy did not want to hand out a multi-year contract to an OC because Zimm is on thin ice. Why pay big $ to an OC when Zim (and his staff) could be gone at the end of this year. Just reading tea leaves.
I was wondering about that. If so that's complete and utter bullshit and a bad look. I guess if it helps clean house it might be good. We shall see though.
Quote: @VikingOracle said:
@ Vikergirl said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
I have come (already) to see this season as a placeholder. Zimm will win just enough games to screw our draft position and to crush our souls, but not enough to save his job. As I know my soul will be crushed, I have accepted my fate -- so it hurts less. There will be things to enjoy during the season, games won, games lost, individual improvement -- but I am thinking of the season as preseason for '23-'24 when the Vikes will be off the Cousins contract, the new coaching staff will have had a year to mold the Vikings into their image, etc.
I am hoping the Zilfs learned from their last two head coaching hires.
Wow, you see a very specific future. I guess you really are an Oracle. ;-)
All that is certainly possible. But I think it's more likely we make the playoffs behind 10 or 11 wins and both Cousins and Zimmer are extended.
I am generally very optimistic but I am not seeing that. I am hoping that Kubiak can make some progress. Of course then he will probably end up going elsewhere.
BTW, and this is pure speculation, I think one of the reasons young Kubiak is OC is because the Ziggy did not want to hand out a multi-year contract to an OC because Zimm is on thin ice. Why pay big $ to an OC when Zim (and his staff) could be gone at the end of this year. Just reading tea leaves.
I also think old Kubiak retired exactly for this reason -- to give his son a chance at being OC for a team with a lot of offensive talent. If old Kubiak stayed and Zimm is fired at the end of the year, old Kubiak would retire from football and his son would never have walked on his own. So, old Kubiak retires because it gives his son the best opportunity to prove himself.
I agree with your 2nd paragraph. There's no doubt in my mind about that.
But it's also why i think your 1st paragraph is wrong. When the Wilfs "cheap out" on something it will be the first time. I think there's one and only one reason we hired Klint: Kontinuity. Gary knew that this would be the Vikings top priority and knew only his son could provide it.
There's no doubt in my mind that if there were some messianic OC out there who cost a bundle, the Wilfs would be the last people to stand in the way of that.
In fact, that great OC would likely take over for Zimmer if he were to get fired instead of depart with him, arguing against your thin ice theory.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ Vikergirl said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
I have come (already) to see this season as a placeholder. Zimm will win just enough games to screw our draft position and to crush our souls, but not enough to save his job. As I know my soul will be crushed, I have accepted my fate -- so it hurts less. There will be things to enjoy during the season, games won, games lost, individual improvement -- but I am thinking of the season as preseason for '23-'24 when the Vikes will be off the Cousins contract, the new coaching staff will have had a year to mold the Vikings into their image, etc.
I am hoping the Zilfs learned from their last two head coaching hires.
Wow, you see a very specific future. I guess you really are an Oracle. ;-)
All that is certainly possible. But I think it's more likely we make the playoffs behind 10 or 11 wins and both Cousins and Zimmer are extended.
I am generally very optimistic but I am not seeing that. I am hoping that Kubiak can make some progress. Of course then he will probably end up going elsewhere.
BTW, and this is pure speculation, I think one of the reasons young Kubiak is OC is because the Ziggy did not want to hand out a multi-year contract to an OC because Zimm is on thin ice. Why pay big $ to an OC when Zim (and his staff) could be gone at the end of this year. Just reading tea leaves.
I also think old Kubiak retired exactly for this reason -- to give his son a chance at being OC for a team with a lot of offensive talent. If old Kubiak stayed and Zimm is fired at the end of the year, old Kubiak would retire from football and his son would never have walked on his own. So, old Kubiak retires because it gives his son the best opportunity to prove himself.
I agree with your 2nd paragraph. There's no doubt in my mind about that.
But it's also why i think your 1st paragraph is wrong. When the Wilfs "cheap out" on something it will be the first time. I think there's one and only one reason we hired Klint: Kontinuity. Gary knew that this would be the Vikings top priority and knew only his son could provide it.
There's no doubt in my mind that if there were some messianic OC out there who cost a bundle, the Wilfs would be the last people to stand in the way of that.
In fact, that great OC would likely take over for Zimmer if he were to get fired instead of depart with him, arguing against your thin ice theory.
Really liking this discussion, don’t think the Wilfs are going to just throw a season away for short term goals. They are not going season to season, and deciding what’s next. Thinking there is a long term strategy and it is multi variable, value and Lombardi as the goal, at least I hope. They earned their bona fides in real estate, so USB and TCO may be what they are best at. Looking for the right OPB, other people’s brains, for the sports may take more time, you ever seen Ziggy or Mark throw a football?
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ Vikergirl said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
I have come (already) to see this season as a placeholder. Zimm will win just enough games to screw our draft position and to crush our souls, but not enough to save his job. As I know my soul will be crushed, I have accepted my fate -- so it hurts less. There will be things to enjoy during the season, games won, games lost, individual improvement -- but I am thinking of the season as preseason for '23-'24 when the Vikes will be off the Cousins contract, the new coaching staff will have had a year to mold the Vikings into their image, etc.
I am hoping the Zilfs learned from their last two head coaching hires.
Wow, you see a very specific future. I guess you really are an Oracle. ;-)
All that is certainly possible. But I think it's more likely we make the playoffs behind 10 or 11 wins and both Cousins and Zimmer are extended.
I am generally very optimistic but I am not seeing that. I am hoping that Kubiak can make some progress. Of course then he will probably end up going elsewhere.
BTW, and this is pure speculation, I think one of the reasons young Kubiak is OC is because the Ziggy did not want to hand out a multi-year contract to an OC because Zimm is on thin ice. Why pay big $ to an OC when Zim (and his staff) could be gone at the end of this year. Just reading tea leaves.
I also think old Kubiak retired exactly for this reason -- to give his son a chance at being OC for a team with a lot of offensive talent. If old Kubiak stayed and Zimm is fired at the end of the year, old Kubiak would retire from football and his son would never have walked on his own. So, old Kubiak retires because it gives his son the best opportunity to prove himself.
I agree with your 2nd paragraph. There's no doubt in my mind about that.
But it's also why i think your 1st paragraph is wrong. When the Wilfs "cheap out" on something it will be the first time. I think there's one and only one reason we hired Klint: Kontinuity. Gary knew that this would be the Vikings top priority and knew only his son could provide it.
There's no doubt in my mind that if there were some messianic OC out there who cost a bundle, the Wilfs would be the last people to stand in the way of that.
In fact, that great OC would likely take over for Zimmer if he were to get fired instead of depart with him, arguing against your thin ice theory.
This is where we further depart. I think Spielman will also be out and the new GM will want to have complete carte blanche in hiring a new coaching staff.
Quote: @BigAl99 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ Vikergirl said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
I have come (already) to see this season as a placeholder. Zimm will win just enough games to screw our draft position and to crush our souls, but not enough to save his job. As I know my soul will be crushed, I have accepted my fate -- so it hurts less. There will be things to enjoy during the season, games won, games lost, individual improvement -- but I am thinking of the season as preseason for '23-'24 when the Vikes will be off the Cousins contract, the new coaching staff will have had a year to mold the Vikings into their image, etc.
I am hoping the Zilfs learned from their last two head coaching hires.
Wow, you see a very specific future. I guess you really are an Oracle. ;-)
All that is certainly possible. But I think it's more likely we make the playoffs behind 10 or 11 wins and both Cousins and Zimmer are extended.
I am generally very optimistic but I am not seeing that. I am hoping that Kubiak can make some progress. Of course then he will probably end up going elsewhere.
BTW, and this is pure speculation, I think one of the reasons young Kubiak is OC is because the Ziggy did not want to hand out a multi-year contract to an OC because Zimm is on thin ice. Why pay big $ to an OC when Zim (and his staff) could be gone at the end of this year. Just reading tea leaves.
I also think old Kubiak retired exactly for this reason -- to give his son a chance at being OC for a team with a lot of offensive talent. If old Kubiak stayed and Zimm is fired at the end of the year, old Kubiak would retire from football and his son would never have walked on his own. So, old Kubiak retires because it gives his son the best opportunity to prove himself.
I agree with your 2nd paragraph. There's no doubt in my mind about that.
But it's also why i think your 1st paragraph is wrong. When the Wilfs "cheap out" on something it will be the first time. I think there's one and only one reason we hired Klint: Kontinuity. Gary knew that this would be the Vikings top priority and knew only his son could provide it.
There's no doubt in my mind that if there were some messianic OC out there who cost a bundle, the Wilfs would be the last people to stand in the way of that.
In fact, that great OC would likely take over for Zimmer if he were to get fired instead of depart with him, arguing against your thin ice theory.
Really liking this discussion, don’t think the Wilfs are going to just throw a season away for short term goals. They are not going season to season, and deciding what’s next. Thinking there is a long term strategy and it is multi variable, value and Lombardi as the goal, at least I hope. They earned their bona fides in real estate, so USB and TCO may be what they are best at. Looking for the right OPB, other people’s brains, for the sports may take more time, you ever seen Ziggy or Mark throw a football?
I agree with the OPB. Frankly, I think they got suckered into hiring Childress by NFL minds. I think they have gotten smarter since then and know they can't necessarily trust what other NFL minds have to say. I also think they are smart about their money for all the reasons you said above and I doubt that gave Zimmer/Spielman a blank check for bringing in an OC.
Quote: @VikingOracle said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ Vikergirl said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
I have come (already) to see this season as a placeholder. Zimm will win just enough games to screw our draft position and to crush our souls, but not enough to save his job. As I know my soul will be crushed, I have accepted my fate -- so it hurts less. There will be things to enjoy during the season, games won, games lost, individual improvement -- but I am thinking of the season as preseason for '23-'24 when the Vikes will be off the Cousins contract, the new coaching staff will have had a year to mold the Vikings into their image, etc.
I am hoping the Zilfs learned from their last two head coaching hires.
Wow, you see a very specific future. I guess you really are an Oracle. ;-)
All that is certainly possible. But I think it's more likely we make the playoffs behind 10 or 11 wins and both Cousins and Zimmer are extended.
I am generally very optimistic but I am not seeing that. I am hoping that Kubiak can make some progress. Of course then he will probably end up going elsewhere.
BTW, and this is pure speculation, I think one of the reasons young Kubiak is OC is because the Ziggy did not want to hand out a multi-year contract to an OC because Zimm is on thin ice. Why pay big $ to an OC when Zim (and his staff) could be gone at the end of this year. Just reading tea leaves.
I also think old Kubiak retired exactly for this reason -- to give his son a chance at being OC for a team with a lot of offensive talent. If old Kubiak stayed and Zimm is fired at the end of the year, old Kubiak would retire from football and his son would never have walked on his own. So, old Kubiak retires because it gives his son the best opportunity to prove himself.
I agree with your 2nd paragraph. There's no doubt in my mind about that.
But it's also why i think your 1st paragraph is wrong. When the Wilfs "cheap out" on something it will be the first time. I think there's one and only one reason we hired Klint: Kontinuity. Gary knew that this would be the Vikings top priority and knew only his son could provide it.
There's no doubt in my mind that if there were some messianic OC out there who cost a bundle, the Wilfs would be the last people to stand in the way of that.
In fact, that great OC would likely take over for Zimmer if he were to get fired instead of depart with him, arguing against your thin ice theory.
Really liking this discussion, don’t think the Wilfs are going to just throw a season away for short term goals. They are not going season to season, and deciding what’s next. Thinking there is a long term strategy and it is multi variable, value and Lombardi as the goal, at least I hope. They earned their bona fides in real estate, so USB and TCO may be what they are best at. Looking for the right OPB, other people’s brains, for the sports may take more time, you ever seen Ziggy or Mark throw a football?
I agree with the OPB. Frankly, I think they got suckered into hiring Childress by NFL minds. I think they have gotten smarter since then and know they can't necessarily trust what other NFL minds have to say. I also think they are smart about their money for all the reasons you said above and I doubt that gave Zimmer/Spielman a blank check for bringing in an OC.
Totally agree Zim and Rick are conjoined and this years performance is make or break for what they have been given. The cupboard is not bare for new gm/coach, something to build upon, minimize salary losses, but let’s see how many pieces you need to succeed in the minimum amount of time, will be one of the questions. If they play for the Lombardi it will change, not thinking that’s the way it will go.
Quote: @VikingOracle said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ Vikergirl said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
I have come (already) to see this season as a placeholder. Zimm will win just enough games to screw our draft position and to crush our souls, but not enough to save his job. As I know my soul will be crushed, I have accepted my fate -- so it hurts less. There will be things to enjoy during the season, games won, games lost, individual improvement -- but I am thinking of the season as preseason for '23-'24 when the Vikes will be off the Cousins contract, the new coaching staff will have had a year to mold the Vikings into their image, etc.
I am hoping the Zilfs learned from their last two head coaching hires.
Wow, you see a very specific future. I guess you really are an Oracle. ;-)
All that is certainly possible. But I think it's more likely we make the playoffs behind 10 or 11 wins and both Cousins and Zimmer are extended.
I am generally very optimistic but I am not seeing that. I am hoping that Kubiak can make some progress. Of course then he will probably end up going elsewhere.
BTW, and this is pure speculation, I think one of the reasons young Kubiak is OC is because the Ziggy did not want to hand out a multi-year contract to an OC because Zimm is on thin ice. Why pay big $ to an OC when Zim (and his staff) could be gone at the end of this year. Just reading tea leaves.
I also think old Kubiak retired exactly for this reason -- to give his son a chance at being OC for a team with a lot of offensive talent. If old Kubiak stayed and Zimm is fired at the end of the year, old Kubiak would retire from football and his son would never have walked on his own. So, old Kubiak retires because it gives his son the best opportunity to prove himself.
I agree with your 2nd paragraph. There's no doubt in my mind about that.
But it's also why i think your 1st paragraph is wrong. When the Wilfs "cheap out" on something it will be the first time. I think there's one and only one reason we hired Klint: Kontinuity. Gary knew that this would be the Vikings top priority and knew only his son could provide it.
There's no doubt in my mind that if there were some messianic OC out there who cost a bundle, the Wilfs would be the last people to stand in the way of that.
In fact, that great OC would likely take over for Zimmer if he were to get fired instead of depart with him, arguing against your thin ice theory.
This is where we further depart. I think Spielman will also be out and the new GM will want to have complete carte blanche in hiring a new coaching staff.
Wow, there would be a lot of teams who would love to see us do that!
I think in order for any of this to even be in the realm of possible outcomes, the Vikings are probably going to have to finish under .500 and miss the playoffs and I don't think even the biggest Debbie Downer among us expects that. But we'll see...i guess it's possible this loss is such a throat punch that it haunts them for several more weeks. i guess it's also possible that Barr and Kendricks continue to miss games...
Either way, remember there are 18 weeks in the season. We've played....dos. And lost both on the last play. Losing is frustrating as hell, especially the WAY we've lost, but the seething, fire everyone overreaction around here after a loss is a little bit ridiculous. JMO.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ Vikergirl said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
I have come (already) to see this season as a placeholder. Zimm will win just enough games to screw our draft position and to crush our souls, but not enough to save his job. As I know my soul will be crushed, I have accepted my fate -- so it hurts less. There will be things to enjoy during the season, games won, games lost, individual improvement -- but I am thinking of the season as preseason for '23-'24 when the Vikes will be off the Cousins contract, the new coaching staff will have had a year to mold the Vikings into their image, etc.
I am hoping the Zilfs learned from their last two head coaching hires.
Wow, you see a very specific future. I guess you really are an Oracle. ;-)
All that is certainly possible. But I think it's more likely we make the playoffs behind 10 or 11 wins and both Cousins and Zimmer are extended.
I am generally very optimistic but I am not seeing that. I am hoping that Kubiak can make some progress. Of course then he will probably end up going elsewhere.
BTW, and this is pure speculation, I think one of the reasons young Kubiak is OC is because the Ziggy did not want to hand out a multi-year contract to an OC because Zimm is on thin ice. Why pay big $ to an OC when Zim (and his staff) could be gone at the end of this year. Just reading tea leaves.
I also think old Kubiak retired exactly for this reason -- to give his son a chance at being OC for a team with a lot of offensive talent. If old Kubiak stayed and Zimm is fired at the end of the year, old Kubiak would retire from football and his son would never have walked on his own. So, old Kubiak retires because it gives his son the best opportunity to prove himself.
I agree with your 2nd paragraph. There's no doubt in my mind about that.
But it's also why i think your 1st paragraph is wrong. When the Wilfs "cheap out" on something it will be the first time. I think there's one and only one reason we hired Klint: Kontinuity. Gary knew that this would be the Vikings top priority and knew only his son could provide it.
There's no doubt in my mind that if there were some messianic OC out there who cost a bundle, the Wilfs would be the last people to stand in the way of that.
In fact, that great OC would likely take over for Zimmer if he were to get fired instead of depart with him, arguing against your thin ice theory.
This is where we further depart. I think Spielman will also be out and the new GM will want to have complete carte blanche in hiring a new coaching staff.
Wow, there would be a lot of teams who would love to see us do that!
I think in order for any of this to even be in the realm of possible outcomes, the Vikings are probably going to have to finish under .500 and miss the playoffs and I don't think even the biggest Debbie Downer among us expects that. But we'll see...i guess it's possible this loss is such a throat punch that it haunts them for several more weeks. i guess it's also possible that Barr and Kendricks continue to miss games...
Either way, remember there are 18 weeks in the season. We've played....dos. And lost both on the last play. Losing is frustrating as hell, especially the WAY we've lost, but the seething, fire everyone overreaction around here after a loss is a little bit ridiculous. JMO.
MB, I hope you are right and that you ask me to eat some crow in 16 weeks. However, I do think Spielman and Zimm are gone without a playoff victory (or two).
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
I have come (already) to see this season as a placeholder. Zimm will win just enough games to screw our draft position and to crush our souls, but not enough to save his job. As I know my soul will be crushed, I have accepted my fate -- so it hurts less. There will be things to enjoy during the season, games won, games lost, individual improvement -- but I am thinking of the season as preseason for '23-'24 when the Vikes will be off the Cousins contract, the new coaching staff will have had a year to mold the Vikings into their image, etc.
I am hoping the Zilfs learned from their last two head coaching hires.
Wow, you see a very specific future. I guess you really are an Oracle. ;-)
All that is certainly possible. But I think it's more likely we make the playoffs behind 10 or 11 wins and both Cousins and Zimmer are extended.
I thought 11 wins was doable 3 weeks ago but at this point it's the definition of pipe. 11-4 the rest of the way is a 5% chance at best. I hope it happens but reality says otherwise.
Quote: @pattersaur said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
I have come (already) to see this season as a placeholder. Zimm will win just enough games to screw our draft position and to crush our souls, but not enough to save his job. As I know my soul will be crushed, I have accepted my fate -- so it hurts less. There will be things to enjoy during the season, games won, games lost, individual improvement -- but I am thinking of the season as preseason for '23-'24 when the Vikes will be off the Cousins contract, the new coaching staff will have had a year to mold the Vikings into their image, etc.
I am hoping the Zilfs learned from their last two head coaching hires.
Wow, you see a very specific future. I guess you really are an Oracle. ;-)
All that is certainly possible. But I think it's more likely we make the playoffs behind 10 or 11 wins and both Cousins and Zimmer are extended.
I thought 11 wins was doable 3 weeks ago but at this point it's the definition of pipe. 11-4 the rest of the way is a 5% chance at best. I hope it happens but reality says otherwise.
Vikings can lose five more games and still make the playoffs. After dropping 5 of their first 6 last season, the Vikings then won 5 of their next 6. And this team is much better than that team was.
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