Quote: @medaille said:
I just don’t think Zimmer or Spielman
are really on the hot seat due to mediocre performances. I think we can all feel that we are on the
cusp of doing good things. We’re way
closer than at any time in the Frazier era.
I think we would have to have some sort of melt down, where Zimmer lost
the team. Assuming that our team, if
similar to last year, where we were good in a lot of aspects of the game, but
catastrophic in one or a few, I think we would likely see the jettisoning of
guys like Sparano (for the OLine) or whoever the individual underperforming
coach was.
I think the most likely candidate for getting let go due to
mediocre team performance is Bradford.
You’ve got a guy who’s pretty much his equal, and should be healthy
sometime during the season, who’s got the label of a winner. You can only keep one of them anyway, and it’s
an easy change to make.
I could see Zimmer and Spielman on the hotseat going into
2018, and possibly being replaced in 2019 after two mediocre seasons.
That said, I think people are dramatically overstating the
issues on the team. Once again, Zimmer
will have a top 10 defense. Our not great
offense can only get better. Even though
we looked sloppy this preseason and possibly into the regular season, one of
the hallmarks of Zimmer’s teams is being disciplined. He will have those issues corrected not too
long into the season.
By 2019, that would be 3 mediocre seasons in a row, wouldn't it? He would not be the coach in 2019 if that's the case.
You mention a "melt down, where Zimmer lost the team". I agree - but IMO, we were dangerously close to that in 2017. You might define "losing the team" differently and feel it did not apply, but last season, the team was losing to those with less talent, inexplicably underperforming on defense, and in some games like Indianapolis, seemingly disinterested. "Losing a team" is sometimes defined as those rare situations where players openly rebel or disregard their coach publicly, but I think it can also mean the coach has lost the ability to motivate or get consistent performance out of the players.
I do agree that jumping back on the new-coach-merry-go-round every 4 years is no way to run a franchise. Butif the current coach turns out to be the wrong guy, how long do you stick with him in the name of stability?
This looks like a .500 team to me, very much so. Zimmer is not up to the job of HC, he's a good DC and that's his ceiling, imho.
Quote: @comet52 said:
This looks like a .500 team to me, very much so. Zimmer is not up to the job of HC, he's a good DC and that's his ceiling, imho.
And McCarthy is a good OC but hired competency in Capers for the D. So that model is not egregious or wrong. Good managers surround themselves with good staff.
Zimmer has much more to prove than McCarthy, so I am not putting them on the same pedestal and I do think this is an important year for Zimmer. He's no spring chicken either.
I am hoping for another 11/5 myself. Call me crazy.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ comet52 said:
This looks like a .500 team to me, very much so. Zimmer is not up to the job of HC, he's a good DC and that's his ceiling, imho.
And McCarthy is a good OC but hired competency in Capers for the D. So that model is not egregious or wrong. Good managers surround themselves with good staff.
Zimmer has much more to prove than McCarthy, so I am not putting them on the same pedestal and I do think this is an important year for Zimmer. He's no spring chicken either.
I am hoping for another 11/5 myself. Call me crazy.
I'm not even sure McCarthy qualifies as good OC. He's got ARod which has covered a multitude of sins as they say.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ medaille said:
I just don’t think Zimmer or Spielman
are really on the hot seat due to mediocre performances. I think we can all feel that we are on the
cusp of doing good things. We’re way
closer than at any time in the Frazier era.
I think we would have to have some sort of melt down, where Zimmer lost
the team. Assuming that our team, if
similar to last year, where we were good in a lot of aspects of the game, but
catastrophic in one or a few, I think we would likely see the jettisoning of
guys like Sparano (for the OLine) or whoever the individual underperforming
coach was.
I think the most likely candidate for getting let go due to
mediocre team performance is Bradford.
You’ve got a guy who’s pretty much his equal, and should be healthy
sometime during the season, who’s got the label of a winner. You can only keep one of them anyway, and it’s
an easy change to make.
I could see Zimmer and Spielman on the hotseat going into
2018, and possibly being replaced in 2019 after two mediocre seasons.
That said, I think people are dramatically overstating the
issues on the team. Once again, Zimmer
will have a top 10 defense. Our not great
offense can only get better. Even though
we looked sloppy this preseason and possibly into the regular season, one of
the hallmarks of Zimmer’s teams is being disciplined. He will have those issues corrected not too
long into the season.
By 2019, that would be 3 mediocre seasons in a row, wouldn't it? He would not be the coach in 2019 if that's the case.
You mention a "melt down, where Zimmer lost the team". I agree - but IMO, we were dangerously close to that in 2017. You might define "losing the team" differently and feel it did not apply, but last season, the team was losing to those with less talent, inexplicably underperforming on defense, and in some games like Indianapolis, seemingly disinterested. "Losing a team" is sometimes defined as those rare situations where players openly rebel or disregard their coach publicly, but I think it can also mean the coach has lost the ability to motivate or get consistent performance out of the players.
I do agree that jumping back on the new-coach-merry-go-round every 4 years is no way to run a franchise. Butif the current coach turns out to be the wrong guy, how long do you stick with him in the name of stability?
Last year the team had one catastrophic failure. The OLine. And it tanked our whole season. There were other minor issues, but almost all teams have minor issues. I struggle to see how a defense that wasn't motivated or getting consistent performance out of it's players would be a top 3 defense.
If you got the wrong guy, you need to cut him quickly and move on, but the evidence in my mind points to us being closer to consistently good, then consistently mediocre or worse.
Quote: @medaille said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ medaille said:
I just don’t think Zimmer or Spielman
are really on the hot seat due to mediocre performances. I think we can all feel that we are on the
cusp of doing good things. We’re way
closer than at any time in the Frazier era.
I think we would have to have some sort of melt down, where Zimmer lost
the team. Assuming that our team, if
similar to last year, where we were good in a lot of aspects of the game, but
catastrophic in one or a few, I think we would likely see the jettisoning of
guys like Sparano (for the OLine) or whoever the individual underperforming
coach was.
I think the most likely candidate for getting let go due to
mediocre team performance is Bradford.
You’ve got a guy who’s pretty much his equal, and should be healthy
sometime during the season, who’s got the label of a winner. You can only keep one of them anyway, and it’s
an easy change to make.
I could see Zimmer and Spielman on the hotseat going into
2018, and possibly being replaced in 2019 after two mediocre seasons.
That said, I think people are dramatically overstating the
issues on the team. Once again, Zimmer
will have a top 10 defense. Our not great
offense can only get better. Even though
we looked sloppy this preseason and possibly into the regular season, one of
the hallmarks of Zimmer’s teams is being disciplined. He will have those issues corrected not too
long into the season.
By 2019, that would be 3 mediocre seasons in a row, wouldn't it? He would not be the coach in 2019 if that's the case.
You mention a "melt down, where Zimmer lost the team". I agree - but IMO, we were dangerously close to that in 2017. You might define "losing the team" differently and feel it did not apply, but last season, the team was losing to those with less talent, inexplicably underperforming on defense, and in some games like Indianapolis, seemingly disinterested. "Losing a team" is sometimes defined as those rare situations where players openly rebel or disregard their coach publicly, but I think it can also mean the coach has lost the ability to motivate or get consistent performance out of the players.
I do agree that jumping back on the new-coach-merry-go-round every 4 years is no way to run a franchise. Butif the current coach turns out to be the wrong guy, how long do you stick with him in the name of stability?
Last year the team had one catastrophic failure. The OLine. And it tanked our whole season. There were other minor issues, but almost all teams have minor issues. I struggle to see how a defense that wasn't motivated or getting consistent performance out of it's players would be a top 3 defense.
If you got the wrong guy, you need to cut him quickly and move on, but the evidence in my mind points to us being closer to consistently good, then consistently mediocre or worse.
You might say losing the presumptive franchise QB the week before the first game is catastrophic or losing your OC mid season(though Turner may not have been a big loss IMO). Sam compensated well for a while but he has his own limitations, we will never know how Teddy would have faired in that offense. Hopefully it gets all figured out this season.
Why would any sane Viking fan EXPECT anything OTHER than a .500 season?!! Seriously.
3 Head Coaches, 5(?) OC's, 5 (?) DC's, 100's of players. ....and ONE VP of Player Personel/GM the past 11 seasons. Hmm...who's the common denominator during this extended period of mediocrity? Not to mention this VP/GM was/is in charge of ALL SCOUTING, both Pro and College, ysince 2006.
I do have to admit that Ricky and Sammy are a perfect match. Neither one has anything on their ACTUAL records that they can field/lead teams that WIN consistently, but both do JUST ENOUGH to avoid being BAD.
I know "Embrace the Suck" was a wonderful slogan for Vikings fans a few years ago, but I propose something with a little more staying power....."Minnesota Mediocrity".
Apparently this is sufficient for Viking's fans.....as long as you're not the WORST, everything is beautiful! Wait 'til next year, or the year after that, or the year after that, or the year after that, etc.
I am hoping for this team to pleasantly surprise me this year, but I'm going to need to SEE results before I buy into anymore BS emanating from Winter Park and their paid cheerleaders on this and other fan sites.
JUST FUCKING WIN!!!
To quote Zimmer himself, "Don't tell me about the labor, SHOW ME THE BABY".
Show me.
PEACE.
Darren Wolfson has been hinting that Spielman may be on the hot seat if the team doesn't turn things around this season.
Quote: @Wetlander said:
Darren Wolfson has been hinting that Spielman may be on the hot seat if the team doesn't turn things around this season.
Its about F#*$ING TIME. Having been in several business meetings with Mark Wilf in the early 2000's, I am still shocked that they've tolerated mediocre results this long.
I have to think that the new stadium and training facilities (and tripling their investment) were priorities over winning.
Now that those issues have been addressed, I certainly hope Ricky's bullshit excuses will start falling on deaf ears. I'm happy to hear that he will FINALLY be judged by, you know, RESULTS.
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