Yeah, UH Manoa, has satellites on each island and THAT tuition equates to roughly community college, so my daughter is finishing her two years there right now.
The real tuition landslide hits next year, and she is fighting for a space in the social work program. (BSW). Asked her what her “plan B” is if she didnt get in (she has a 4.0, and countless volunteer hours) and she said “There in no “plan B”.
Ahhhh...college
I've brought this up before about trades: most kids don't want to do them. Its a nice sound bite on the news about how we should do this and I agree that in principle, yes its pretty good money for a hand-on type profession. But the reality is go see how high school seniors or recent grads have zero interest in it for the most part.
One example: A friend of mine is a utility lineman for a county in Michigan, has been doing it for 20 years. He set up an apprenticeship program that pays recent high school graduates to learn on the job and then after 1.5 years, they are guaranteed a utility lineman job. Its 4 candidates a year for the county/cities. He has to go to at least 3 high schools to get 4 candidates. 2 will quit after getting their first paycheck. The next will quit after 2 months. If he's lucky, he'll get 1 candidate a year to stick with the program. ONE. And not always even one.
Its not an 'exciting' job, it requires a work ethic and these kids are entitled. It's nuts.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
I've brought this up before about trades: most kids don't want to do them. Its a nice sound bite on the news about how we should do this and I agree that in principle, yes its pretty good money for a hand-on type profession. But the reality is go see how high school seniors or recent grads have zero interest in it for the most part.
One example: A friend of mine is a utility lineman for a county in Michigan, has been doing it for 20 years. He set up an apprenticeship program that pays recent high school graduates to learn on the job and then after 1.5 years, they are guaranteed a utility lineman job. Its 4 candidates a year for the county/cities. He has to go to at least 3 high schools to get 4 candidates. 2 will quit after getting their first paycheck. The next will quit after 2 months. If he's lucky, he'll get 1 candidate a year to stick with the program. ONE. And not always even one.
Its not an 'exciting' job, it requires a work ethic and these kids are entitled. It's nuts.
we need to change the culture of entitlements. why wouldnt kids expect stuff they dont have to earn? they grow up in a country that talks about corporate hand outs, individual handouts, debt forgiveness, all the programs that were designed as hand ups for those having temporary troubles have become a way of life... why wouldnt kids on the verge of becoming adults expect their share of the free life?
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
I've brought this up before about trades: most kids don't want to do them. Its a nice sound bite on the news about how we should do this and I agree that in principle, yes its pretty good money for a hand-on type profession. But the reality is go see how high school seniors or recent grads have zero interest in it for the most part.
One example: A friend of mine is a utility lineman for a county in Michigan, has been doing it for 20 years. He set up an apprenticeship program that pays recent high school graduates to learn on the job and then after 1.5 years, they are guaranteed a utility lineman job. Its 4 candidates a year for the county/cities. He has to go to at least 3 high schools to get 4 candidates. 2 will quit after getting their first paycheck. The next will quit after 2 months. If he's lucky, he'll get 1 candidate a year to stick with the program. ONE. And not always even one.
Its not an 'exciting' job, it requires a work ethic and these kids are entitled. It's nuts.
we need to change the culture of entitlements. why wouldnt kids expect stuff they dont have to earn? they grow up in a country that talks about corporate hand outs, individual handouts, debt forgiveness, all the programs that were designed as hand ups for those having temporary troubles have become a way of life... why wouldnt kids on the verge of becoming adults expect their share of the free life?
lol, its the parents that are setting the entitlements in the kids, not 'corporate hand outs, etc.'. It starts at home. It has nothing to do with the 'hand up' programs. Kids are entitled because their parents spoil them and don't make them do shit. What does a 17 year old kid know about corporate hand outs? Its not the welfare families, their kids want out of that life. Its the spoiled rotten middle/upper class families that don't let their babies do anything for themselves. They fix all their problems. Its ridiculous.
Jesus, there are some crabby old men on this board, lmao. Trust me I know, I'm one of them.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
I've brought this up before about trades: most kids don't want to do them. Its a nice sound bite on the news about how we should do this and I agree that in principle, yes its pretty good money for a hand-on type profession. But the reality is go see how high school seniors or recent grads have zero interest in it for the most part.
One example: A friend of mine is a utility lineman for a county in Michigan, has been doing it for 20 years. He set up an apprenticeship program that pays recent high school graduates to learn on the job and then after 1.5 years, they are guaranteed a utility lineman job. Its 4 candidates a year for the county/cities. He has to go to at least 3 high schools to get 4 candidates. 2 will quit after getting their first paycheck. The next will quit after 2 months. If he's lucky, he'll get 1 candidate a year to stick with the program. ONE. And not always even one.
Its not an 'exciting' job, it requires a work ethic and these kids are entitled. It's nuts.
we need to change the culture of entitlements. why wouldnt kids expect stuff they dont have to earn? they grow up in a country that talks about corporate hand outs, individual handouts, debt forgiveness, all the programs that were designed as hand ups for those having temporary troubles have become a way of life... why wouldnt kids on the verge of becoming adults expect their share of the free life?
lol, its the parents that are setting the entitlements in the kids, not 'corporate hand outs, etc.'. It starts at home. It has nothing to do with the 'hand up' programs. Kids are entitled because their parents spoil them and don't make them do shit. What does a 17 year old kid know about corporate hand outs? Its not the welfare families, their kids want out of that life. Its the spoiled rotten middle/upper class families that don't let their babies do anything for themselves. They fix all their problems. Its ridiculous.
Jesus, there are some crabby old men on this board, lmao. Trust me I know, I'm one of them.
This is not just about spoiled kids, there are a lot of kids from all kinds of back grounds that lack a quality work ethic or desire to earn their way.
Edit: but yes, my response was pretty knee jerk.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
I've brought this up before about trades: most kids don't want to do them. Its a nice sound bite on the news about how we should do this and I agree that in principle, yes its pretty good money for a hand-on type profession. But the reality is go see how high school seniors or recent grads have zero interest in it for the most part.
One example: A friend of mine is a utility lineman for a county in Michigan, has been doing it for 20 years. He set up an apprenticeship program that pays recent high school graduates to learn on the job and then after 1.5 years, they are guaranteed a utility lineman job. Its 4 candidates a year for the county/cities. He has to go to at least 3 high schools to get 4 candidates. 2 will quit after getting their first paycheck. The next will quit after 2 months. If he's lucky, he'll get 1 candidate a year to stick with the program. ONE. And not always even one.
Its not an 'exciting' job, it requires a work ethic and these kids are entitled. It's nuts.
we need to change the culture of entitlements. why wouldnt kids expect stuff they dont have to earn? they grow up in a country that talks about corporate hand outs, individual handouts, debt forgiveness, all the programs that were designed as hand ups for those having temporary troubles have become a way of life... why wouldnt kids on the verge of becoming adults expect their share of the free life?
lol, its the parents that are setting the entitlements in the kids, not 'corporate hand outs, etc.'. It starts at home. It has nothing to do with the 'hand up' programs. Kids are entitled because their parents spoil them and don't make them do shit. What does a 17 year old kid know about corporate hand outs? Its not the welfare families, their kids want out of that life. Its the spoiled rotten middle/upper class families that don't let their babies do anything for themselves. They fix all their problems. Its ridiculous.
Jesus, there are some crabby old men on this board, lmao. Trust me I know, I'm one of them.
This is not just about spoiled kids, there are a lot of kids from all kinds of back grounds that lack a quality work ethic or desire to earn their way.
Yes, its called bad parenting. Happens in all walks of life. It has nothing to do with social programs, contrary to what you are insinuating.@StickyBun said:Quote:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
I've brought this up before about trades: most kids don't want to do them. Its a nice sound bite on the news about how we should do this and I agree that in principle, yes its pretty good money for a hand-on type profession. But the reality is go see how high school seniors or recent grads have zero interest in it for the most part.
One example: A friend of mine is a utility lineman for a county in Michigan, has been doing it for 20 years. He set up an apprenticeship program that pays recent high school graduates to learn on the job and then after 1.5 years, they are guaranteed a utility lineman job. Its 4 candidates a year for the county/cities. He has to go to at least 3 high schools to get 4 candidates. 2 will quit after getting their first paycheck. The next will quit after 2 months. If he's lucky, he'll get 1 candidate a year to stick with the program. ONE. And not always even one.
Its not an 'exciting' job, it requires a work ethic and these kids are entitled. It's nuts.
we need to change the culture of entitlements. why wouldnt kids expect stuff they dont have to earn? they grow up in a country that talks about corporate hand outs, individual handouts, debt forgiveness, all the programs that were designed as hand ups for those having temporary troubles have become a way of life... why wouldnt kids on the verge of becoming adults expect their share of the free life?
lol, its the parents that are setting the entitlements in the kids, not 'corporate hand outs, etc.'. It starts at home. It has nothing to do with the 'hand up' programs. Kids are entitled because their parents spoil them and don't make them do shit. What does a 17 year old kid know about corporate hand outs? Its not the welfare families, their kids want out of that life. Its the spoiled rotten middle/upper class families that don't let their babies do anything for themselves. They fix all their problems. Its ridiculous.
Jesus, there are some crabby old men on this board, lmao. Trust me I know, I'm one of them.
This is not just about spoiled kids, there are a lot of kids from all kinds of back grounds that lack a quality work ethic or desire to earn their way.
Yes, its called bad parenting. Happens in all walks of life. It has nothing to do with social programs, contrary to what you are insinuating.
kids that grow up seeing their parents living off the tit will be more inclined to do the same, just as kids that grow up wealthy and with parents that dont work will not likely ever develop a work ethic. our social programs do have unintended (at least I hope unintended) consequences.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
I've brought this up before about trades: most kids don't want to do them. Its a nice sound bite on the news about how we should do this and I agree that in principle, yes its pretty good money for a hand-on type profession. But the reality is go see how high school seniors or recent grads have zero interest in it for the most part.
One example: A friend of mine is a utility lineman for a county in Michigan, has been doing it for 20 years. He set up an apprenticeship program that pays recent high school graduates to learn on the job and then after 1.5 years, they are guaranteed a utility lineman job. Its 4 candidates a year for the county/cities. He has to go to at least 3 high schools to get 4 candidates. 2 will quit after getting their first paycheck. The next will quit after 2 months. If he's lucky, he'll get 1 candidate a year to stick with the program. ONE. And not always even one.
Its not an 'exciting' job, it requires a work ethic and these kids are entitled. It's nuts.
we need to change the culture of entitlements. why wouldnt kids expect stuff they dont have to earn? they grow up in a country that talks about corporate hand outs, individual handouts, debt forgiveness, all the programs that were designed as hand ups for those having temporary troubles have become a way of life... why wouldnt kids on the verge of becoming adults expect their share of the free life?
lol, its the parents that are setting the entitlements in the kids, not 'corporate hand outs, etc.'. It starts at home. It has nothing to do with the 'hand up' programs. Kids are entitled because their parents spoil them and don't make them do shit. What does a 17 year old kid know about corporate hand outs? Its not the welfare families, their kids want out of that life. Its the spoiled rotten middle/upper class families that don't let their babies do anything for themselves. They fix all their problems. Its ridiculous.
Jesus, there are some crabby old men on this board, lmao. Trust me I know, I'm one of them.
This is not just about spoiled kids, there are a lot of kids from all kinds of back grounds that lack a quality work ethic or desire to earn their way.
Yes, its called bad parenting. Happens in all walks of life. It has nothing to do with social programs, contrary to what you are insinuating.@ StickyBun said: Quote:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
I've brought this up before about trades: most kids don't want to do them. Its a nice sound bite on the news about how we should do this and I agree that in principle, yes its pretty good money for a hand-on type profession. But the reality is go see how high school seniors or recent grads have zero interest in it for the most part.
One example: A friend of mine is a utility lineman for a county in Michigan, has been doing it for 20 years. He set up an apprenticeship program that pays recent high school graduates to learn on the job and then after 1.5 years, they are guaranteed a utility lineman job. Its 4 candidates a year for the county/cities. He has to go to at least 3 high schools to get 4 candidates. 2 will quit after getting their first paycheck. The next will quit after 2 months. If he's lucky, he'll get 1 candidate a year to stick with the program. ONE. And not always even one.
Its not an 'exciting' job, it requires a work ethic and these kids are entitled. It's nuts.
we need to change the culture of entitlements. why wouldnt kids expect stuff they dont have to earn? they grow up in a country that talks about corporate hand outs, individual handouts, debt forgiveness, all the programs that were designed as hand ups for those having temporary troubles have become a way of life... why wouldnt kids on the verge of becoming adults expect their share of the free life?
lol, its the parents that are setting the entitlements in the kids, not 'corporate hand outs, etc.'. It starts at home. It has nothing to do with the 'hand up' programs. Kids are entitled because their parents spoil them and don't make them do shit. What does a 17 year old kid know about corporate hand outs? Its not the welfare families, their kids want out of that life. Its the spoiled rotten middle/upper class families that don't let their babies do anything for themselves. They fix all their problems. Its ridiculous.
Jesus, there are some crabby old men on this board, lmao. Trust me I know, I'm one of them.
This is not just about spoiled kids, there are a lot of kids from all kinds of back grounds that lack a quality work ethic or desire to earn their way.
Yes, its called bad parenting. Happens in all walks of life. It has nothing to do with social programs, contrary to what you are insinuating.
kids that grow up seeing their parents living off the tit will be more inclined to do the same, just as kids that grow up wealthy and with parents that dont work will not likely ever develop a work ethic. our social programs do have unintended (at least I hope unintended) consequences.
Here's where social programs fail: some of them don't help to get people OUT of their situation and more often can keep them tied to it. But its a complicated issue for sure. Fraud and abuse can happen just like in anything else and its especially offensive to people that work hard to see that fraud. That isn't lost on me, I've felt the same about it.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
I've brought this up before about trades: most kids don't want to do them. Its a nice sound bite on the news about how we should do this and I agree that in principle, yes its pretty good money for a hand-on type profession. But the reality is go see how high school seniors or recent grads have zero interest in it for the most part.
One example: A friend of mine is a utility lineman for a county in Michigan, has been doing it for 20 years. He set up an apprenticeship program that pays recent high school graduates to learn on the job and then after 1.5 years, they are guaranteed a utility lineman job. Its 4 candidates a year for the county/cities. He has to go to at least 3 high schools to get 4 candidates. 2 will quit after getting their first paycheck. The next will quit after 2 months. If he's lucky, he'll get 1 candidate a year to stick with the program. ONE. And not always even one.
Its not an 'exciting' job, it requires a work ethic and these kids are entitled. It's nuts.
we need to change the culture of entitlements. why wouldnt kids expect stuff they dont have to earn? they grow up in a country that talks about corporate hand outs, individual handouts, debt forgiveness, all the programs that were designed as hand ups for those having temporary troubles have become a way of life... why wouldnt kids on the verge of becoming adults expect their share of the free life?
lol, its the parents that are setting the entitlements in the kids, not 'corporate hand outs, etc.'. It starts at home. It has nothing to do with the 'hand up' programs. Kids are entitled because their parents spoil them and don't make them do shit. What does a 17 year old kid know about corporate hand outs? Its not the welfare families, their kids want out of that life. Its the spoiled rotten middle/upper class families that don't let their babies do anything for themselves. They fix all their problems. Its ridiculous.
Jesus, there are some crabby old men on this board, lmao. Trust me I know, I'm one of them.
This is not just about spoiled kids, there are a lot of kids from all kinds of back grounds that lack a quality work ethic or desire to earn their way.
Yes, its called bad parenting. Happens in all walks of life. It has nothing to do with social programs, contrary to what you are insinuating.@ StickyBun said: Quote:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
I've brought this up before about trades: most kids don't want to do them. Its a nice sound bite on the news about how we should do this and I agree that in principle, yes its pretty good money for a hand-on type profession. But the reality is go see how high school seniors or recent grads have zero interest in it for the most part.
One example: A friend of mine is a utility lineman for a county in Michigan, has been doing it for 20 years. He set up an apprenticeship program that pays recent high school graduates to learn on the job and then after 1.5 years, they are guaranteed a utility lineman job. Its 4 candidates a year for the county/cities. He has to go to at least 3 high schools to get 4 candidates. 2 will quit after getting their first paycheck. The next will quit after 2 months. If he's lucky, he'll get 1 candidate a year to stick with the program. ONE. And not always even one.
Its not an 'exciting' job, it requires a work ethic and these kids are entitled. It's nuts.
we need to change the culture of entitlements. why wouldnt kids expect stuff they dont have to earn? they grow up in a country that talks about corporate hand outs, individual handouts, debt forgiveness, all the programs that were designed as hand ups for those having temporary troubles have become a way of life... why wouldnt kids on the verge of becoming adults expect their share of the free life?
lol, its the parents that are setting the entitlements in the kids, not 'corporate hand outs, etc.'. It starts at home. It has nothing to do with the 'hand up' programs. Kids are entitled because their parents spoil them and don't make them do shit. What does a 17 year old kid know about corporate hand outs? Its not the welfare families, their kids want out of that life. Its the spoiled rotten middle/upper class families that don't let their babies do anything for themselves. They fix all their problems. Its ridiculous.
Jesus, there are some crabby old men on this board, lmao. Trust me I know, I'm one of them.
This is not just about spoiled kids, there are a lot of kids from all kinds of back grounds that lack a quality work ethic or desire to earn their way.
Yes, its called bad parenting. Happens in all walks of life. It has nothing to do with social programs, contrary to what you are insinuating.
kids that grow up seeing their parents living off the tit will be more inclined to do the same, just as kids that grow up wealthy and with parents that dont work will not likely ever develop a work ethic. our social programs do have unintended (at least I hope unintended) consequences.
Here's where social programs fail: some of them don't help to get people OUT of their situation and more often can keep them tied to it. But its a complicated issue for sure. Fraud and abuse can happen just like in anything else and its especially offensive to people that work hard to see that fraud. That isn't lost on me, I've felt the same about it.
as badly as we need to get off this merry go round, it only seems to be gaining momentum... how many more dependent families ( and generations of families) will have been created when this pandemic veil is lifted?
I go back and forth on this one, when I was in school, there were limits to the borrowing, tuition and book's, and it was done through qualified schools. Now they can borrow amounts for living expenses and it's through private institutions. Seems almost predatory, with deferred payments as long as you are in school. A kid graduating with a degree in sports exercise and 60K to 100k in debt has little chance of contributing to the economy for 10 to 15 years, but hey that's part of the education.
Here's the old codger story, skip to end where I kick you off my lawn, if you want. My son and daughter-in-law both went to the same undergrad colleges, my gift to my kids was their undergrad educations were going to be on me, the rest was on them. Her folks divorced, and she had to borrow and get scholarships, to get through. For Bachelor's he was at 0, she was -60K. They both went on to get their PHD's he was in science and she was in the arts, he received a fellowship with stipend and she worked for the University. Not sure what she ended up owing but it was in the six figures. She was very on board for the debt relief right out of school, but now has changed her tune. They are 3 years out of school, both have professional positions, and looking for ocean shore property commuting distance from DC and payed off her debt. So I don't have a clue what policy will help society and the economy, you know, that make America great kinda thing. My heuristic data supports a Darwinian approach for debt, but my gut and heart feels we need to pay back more than money for what we have received. So just stay the F off my lawn and I am good with that.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
I've brought this up before about trades: most kids don't want to do them. Its a nice sound bite on the news about how we should do this and I agree that in principle, yes its pretty good money for a hand-on type profession. But the reality is go see how high school seniors or recent grads have zero interest in it for the most part.
One example: A friend of mine is a utility lineman for a county in Michigan, has been doing it for 20 years. He set up an apprenticeship program that pays recent high school graduates to learn on the job and then after 1.5 years, they are guaranteed a utility lineman job. Its 4 candidates a year for the county/cities. He has to go to at least 3 high schools to get 4 candidates. 2 will quit after getting their first paycheck. The next will quit after 2 months. If he's lucky, he'll get 1 candidate a year to stick with the program. ONE. And not always even one.
Its not an 'exciting' job, it requires a work ethic and these kids are entitled. It's nuts.
we need to change the culture of entitlements. why wouldnt kids expect stuff they dont have to earn? they grow up in a country that talks about corporate hand outs, individual handouts, debt forgiveness, all the programs that were designed as hand ups for those having temporary troubles have become a way of life... why wouldnt kids on the verge of becoming adults expect their share of the free life?
lol, its the parents that are setting the entitlements in the kids, not 'corporate hand outs, etc.'. It starts at home. It has nothing to do with the 'hand up' programs. Kids are entitled because their parents spoil them and don't make them do shit. What does a 17 year old kid know about corporate hand outs? Its not the welfare families, their kids want out of that life. Its the spoiled rotten middle/upper class families that don't let their babies do anything for themselves. They fix all their problems. Its ridiculous.
Jesus, there are some crabby old men on this board, lmao. Trust me I know, I'm one of them.
There is truth to both sides here. I think most 17 year olds have quite a bit of "knowledge" about free college, handouts, welfare and all that. But much of it is learned from their parents who spoil them while taking many different forms of welfare. It ain't just the poor on welfare anymore.
But back to the point, my kids make a killing working lawns, doing odd jobs because they have a work ethic. And I have no problem with the 2 that will likely make a living doing manual labor. Or at least make money at it until they decide they want something different.
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