Quote: @"MaroonBells" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
Imo, your veteran employees (that you hope to retain) will need to see increases equal to or more, that the minimum wage people get. If min goes up $7 then all wages should go up $7 to account for the cost of goods that will correspondingly go up, otherwise that existing employee will lose buying power and thusly their standard of living.
Some will argue that cost of goods won't go up, but I rarely see companies take profit losses without jacking their prices.
https://twitter.com/DanPriceSeattle/stat...14848?s=20
https://twitter.com/DanPriceSeattle/stat...09475?s=20
While I agree with the bottom twit, the top one is not true nation wide. At least for walmart/sams While they do pay above minimum for many jobs they pay based on location and according to the local market to fill positions.
And I can pretty much guarantee that if you have a person making 15 to 20 right now and suddenly every is making that wage, they will be demanding 20 to 25 or more just out of sense of self worth, and that will feed right up the wage scale regardless of how much people are currently making.
It's like the farm programs, they were set up to help the small farmers but the big farmers benefit more from the same programs based on scale so in the end the small farmers still can't compete for land and what ever else since the additional artificial income really only increases their bottom line marginally and that is often offset greatly by the inputs (land seed fertilizer equipment etc)they must buy in increasing their prices due to their larger customers having deeper pockets to dig into. I dont often see more money available across the board as a boost, its just more money changing hands for the same transactions.
Do we not think unions will demand new negotiations for their workers if suddenly they are only making 5 ro 10 over minimum wage? And that won't be reflected in the cost of goods made here in the US , what there is left to make here since environmental and labor regulations as well union demands, over the years have pushed much of that overseas already?
This imo is just another step to destroying the small businesses and handing more market share and control over to big business which is more and more reliant on Chinese and other foreign goods. It will likely happen regardless but no point in accelerating it.
Does anybody honestly know of any jobs that are still paying minimum? I dont see anything under $10 an hour advertised for any openings anymore even in small rural towns unless its waiting tables and tips make up for the lower wage in most cases.
Quote: @"JimmyinSD" said:
@"BigAl99" said:
When they want an increase in pay ask what new skills they are working on, and support that as a way to a raise, create a CI culture. I constantly tell the floor workers, they need to look at they bring to the table. The worst thing I ever heard was a operator, who had just got a raise tell me that "he gets paid to much" to clean up his machine.
are new skills expected of those benefitting from the artificial mandated increase? Isn't it expected that the current system of reward is based somewhat on rewarding skill levels and that those earning the lowest wages bring the least amount of valued skills and experience to the company they work for?
Yep, min wage is a starting point position, not a hopeless destination. Fifteen bucks an hour is 31K a year, do you think these jobs also include health and life insurance, any other benefits?
Quote: @"BigAl99" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"BigAl99" said:
When they want an increase in pay ask what new skills they are working on, and support that as a way to a raise, create a CI culture. I constantly tell the floor workers, they need to look at they bring to the table. The worst thing I ever heard was a operator, who had just got a raise tell me that "he gets paid to much" to clean up his machine.
are new skills expected of those benefitting from the artificial mandated increase? Isn't it expected that the current system of reward is based somewhat on rewarding skill levels and that those earning the lowest wages bring the least amount of valued skills and experience to the company they work for?
Yep, min wage is a starting point position, not a hopeless destination. Fifteen bucks an hour is 31K a year, do you think these jobs also include health and life insurance, any other benefits?
problem is... some are more than happy not to improve themselves as employees, we offer all kinds of incentives to employees to get better training and with it pay increases, some do the work, others just sit around and piss and moan about their pay check. not everybody is motivated enough to help themselves.
Personally I think our country needs to treat high school graduates like army recruits, take the ASVAB test and find out what people are good candidates for in terms of attitude and interest, match those qualities and what not up with needed jobs in our country and make free or really really affordable education available to any kid that wants to enter those fields, provided those kids graduate and take the jobs that they are then trained for, their education costs are forgiven based on years of service. In SD we have a program like that for need based students called "Build Dakota" skilled fields of need are identified and any eligible kids that want to enter those fields are eligible for a scholarship that is sponsored by employers from those fields. Kids that complete their training then have options of where they want to go to work. My SIL got his RN this way and him and my daughter were able to come away with a really sweet deal once the competing hospitals found out they were basically getting 2 RNs for the price of 1 since I had already paid for my daughters education. My daughter used that leverage though to get a higher starting wage.
anyway, IMO if we truly want to improve the bottom line for the bottom earners, we need to change the way we prepare some people for their working life. starting in Jr High we need to start focusing their educations more on things that will help them earn a living and less on things that wont and then using testing make more of an effort to help steer those kids towards something that will pay the bills instead of having a society filled with teenage superstar athletes that have no life skills for when their athletic careers end at 18. I am all for student loan forgiveness, but it needs to be for those that actually finish their schooling and are entering fields of need.
sorry I kind of went OT there.
Quote: @"BigAl99" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"BigAl99" said:
When they want an increase in pay ask what new skills they are working on, and support that as a way to a raise, create a CI culture. I constantly tell the floor workers, they need to look at they bring to the table. The worst thing I ever heard was a operator, who had just got a raise tell me that "he gets paid to much" to clean up his machine.
are new skills expected of those benefitting from the artificial mandated increase? Isn't it expected that the current system of reward is based somewhat on rewarding skill levels and that those earning the lowest wages bring the least amount of valued skills and experience to the company they work for?
Yep, min wage is a starting point position, not a hopeless destination. Fifteen bucks an hour is 31K a year, do you think these jobs also include health and life insurance, any other benefits?
nope. but if that is what people want then they should shoot for more than a min skill level. besides, the gov will cover their health insurance right? lots of companies are going to more part time employees and less full time just to avoid having to pay benefits to unskilled labor positions.
Quote: @"JimmyinSD" said:
@"BigAl99" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"BigAl99" said:
When they want an increase in pay ask what new skills they are working on, and support that as a way to a raise, create a CI culture. I constantly tell the floor workers, they need to look at they bring to the table. The worst thing I ever heard was a operator, who had just got a raise tell me that "he gets paid to much" to clean up his machine.
are new skills expected of those benefitting from the artificial mandated increase? Isn't it expected that the current system of reward is based somewhat on rewarding skill levels and that those earning the lowest wages bring the least amount of valued skills and experience to the company they work for?
Yep, min wage is a starting point position, not a hopeless destination. Fifteen bucks an hour is 31K a year, do you think these jobs also include health and life insurance, any other benefits?
problem is... some are more than happy not to improve themselves as employees, we offer all kinds of incentives to employees to get better training and with it pay increases, some do the work, others just sit around and piss and moan about their pay check. not everybody is motivated enough to help themselves.
Personally I think our country needs to treat high school graduates like army recruits, take the ASVAB test and find out what people are good candidates for in terms of attitude and interest, match those qualities and what not up with needed jobs in our country and make free or really really affordable education available to any kid that wants to enter those fields, provided those kids graduate and take the jobs that they are then trained for, their education costs are forgiven based on years of service. In SD we have a program like that for need based students called "Build Dakota" skilled fields of need are identified and any eligible kids that want to enter those fields are eligible for a scholarship that is sponsored by employers from those fields. Kids that complete their training then have options of where they want to go to work. My SIL got his RN this way and him and my daughter were able to come away with a really sweet deal once the competing hospitals found out they were basically getting 2 RNs for the price of 1 since I had already paid for my daughters education. My daughter used that leverage though to get a higher starting wage.
anyway, IMO if we truly want to improve the bottom line for the bottom earners, we need to change the way we prepare some people for their working life. starting in Jr High we need to start focusing their educations more on things that will help them earn a living and less on things that wont and then using testing make more of an effort to help steer those kids towards something that will pay the bills instead of having a society filled with teenage superstar athletes that have no life skills for when their athletic careers end at 18. I am all for student loan forgiveness, but it needs to be for those that actually finish their schooling and are entering fields of need.
sorry I kind of went OT there.
Sounds like one hell of a government mandate to get them to do things that are all ready available. Hell, Americans won't even cover their mouths to prevent illness when told to, all the while saying their second amendment insures that freedom.
Quote: @"BigAl99" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"BigAl99" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"BigAl99" said:
When they want an increase in pay ask what new skills they are working on, and support that as a way to a raise, create a CI culture. I constantly tell the floor workers, they need to look at they bring to the table. The worst thing I ever heard was a operator, who had just got a raise tell me that "he gets paid to much" to clean up his machine.
are new skills expected of those benefitting from the artificial mandated increase? Isn't it expected that the current system of reward is based somewhat on rewarding skill levels and that those earning the lowest wages bring the least amount of valued skills and experience to the company they work for?
Yep, min wage is a starting point position, not a hopeless destination. Fifteen bucks an hour is 31K a year, do you think these jobs also include health and life insurance, any other benefits?
problem is... some are more than happy not to improve themselves as employees, we offer all kinds of incentives to employees to get better training and with it pay increases, some do the work, others just sit around and piss and moan about their pay check. not everybody is motivated enough to help themselves.
Personally I think our country needs to treat high school graduates like army recruits, take the ASVAB test and find out what people are good candidates for in terms of attitude and interest, match those qualities and what not up with needed jobs in our country and make free or really really affordable education available to any kid that wants to enter those fields, provided those kids graduate and take the jobs that they are then trained for, their education costs are forgiven based on years of service. In SD we have a program like that for need based students called "Build Dakota" skilled fields of need are identified and any eligible kids that want to enter those fields are eligible for a scholarship that is sponsored by employers from those fields. Kids that complete their training then have options of where they want to go to work. My SIL got his RN this way and him and my daughter were able to come away with a really sweet deal once the competing hospitals found out they were basically getting 2 RNs for the price of 1 since I had already paid for my daughters education. My daughter used that leverage though to get a higher starting wage.
anyway, IMO if we truly want to improve the bottom line for the bottom earners, we need to change the way we prepare some people for their working life. starting in Jr High we need to start focusing their educations more on things that will help them earn a living and less on things that wont and then using testing make more of an effort to help steer those kids towards something that will pay the bills instead of having a society filled with teenage superstar athletes that have no life skills for when their athletic careers end at 18. I am all for student loan forgiveness, but it needs to be for those that actually finish their schooling and are entering fields of need.
sorry I kind of went OT there.
Sounds like one hell of a government mandate to get them to do things that are all ready available. Hell, Americans won't even cover their mouths to prevent illness when told to, all the while saying their second amendment insures that freedom.
what govt mandate is that?
Quote: @"JimmyinSD" said:
@"BigAl99" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"BigAl99" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"BigAl99" said:
When they want an increase in pay ask what new skills they are working on, and support that as a way to a raise, create a CI culture. I constantly tell the floor workers, they need to look at they bring to the table. The worst thing I ever heard was a operator, who had just got a raise tell me that "he gets paid to much" to clean up his machine.
are new skills expected of those benefitting from the artificial mandated increase? Isn't it expected that the current system of reward is based somewhat on rewarding skill levels and that those earning the lowest wages bring the least amount of valued skills and experience to the company they work for?
Yep, min wage is a starting point position, not a hopeless destination. Fifteen bucks an hour is 31K a year, do you think these jobs also include health and life insurance, any other benefits?
problem is... some are more than happy not to improve themselves as employees, we offer all kinds of incentives to employees to get better training and with it pay increases, some do the work, others just sit around and piss and moan about their pay check. not everybody is motivated enough to help themselves.
Personally I think our country needs to treat high school graduates like army recruits, take the ASVAB test and find out what people are good candidates for in terms of attitude and interest, match those qualities and what not up with needed jobs in our country and make free or really really affordable education available to any kid that wants to enter those fields, provided those kids graduate and take the jobs that they are then trained for, their education costs are forgiven based on years of service. In SD we have a program like that for need based students called "Build Dakota" skilled fields of need are identified and any eligible kids that want to enter those fields are eligible for a scholarship that is sponsored by employers from those fields. Kids that complete their training then have options of where they want to go to work. My SIL got his RN this way and him and my daughter were able to come away with a really sweet deal once the competing hospitals found out they were basically getting 2 RNs for the price of 1 since I had already paid for my daughters education. My daughter used that leverage though to get a higher starting wage.
anyway, IMO if we truly want to improve the bottom line for the bottom earners, we need to change the way we prepare some people for their working life. starting in Jr High we need to start focusing their educations more on things that will help them earn a living and less on things that wont and then using testing make more of an effort to help steer those kids towards something that will pay the bills instead of having a society filled with teenage superstar athletes that have no life skills for when their athletic careers end at 18. I am all for student loan forgiveness, but it needs to be for those that actually finish their schooling and are entering fields of need.
sorry I kind of went OT there.
Sounds like one hell of a government mandate to get them to do things that are all ready available. Hell, Americans won't even cover their mouths to prevent illness when told to, all the while saying their second amendment insures that freedom.
what govt mandate is that?
"Personally I think our country needs to treat high school graduates like army recruits, take the ASVAB test and find out what people are good candidates for in terms of attitude and interest, match those qualities and what not up with needed jobs in our country and make free or really really affordable education available to any kid that wants to enter those fields, provided those kids graduate and take the jobs that they are then trained for, their education costs are forgiven based on years of service."
That one implied by "our country" and "treat like army recruits", once you are in the Army aren't you considered gov. property or is that jus a movie myth. Did I miss your point?
So here is a monkey wrench to throw into all this. Was talking about this with a friend.
Lets go back and use my $7.50 wage jump to $15 wage example.
If wages double and cost of goods and services double as well. Does the increase in pay actually lower their standard of living by making them ineligible for .gov freebies?
You could also bring taxes into the mix. I can assure you tax rates arent going down. Does the doubling of pay give some folks a decrease in standard of living because more is headed to the treasury?
I recently read that labor is 9% of the cost of goods right now. In the 50's I think it said that labor accounted for 18% of goods. Or roughly double what it is today.... and that is the era that people point to for the golden age of our economy.
The idea that higher labor costs translates to higher product costs isn't true (necessarily). You have to remember that putting money in people's pocket has a multiplier effect when it is spent. It isn't 1 to 1 ratio.
Quote: @"BigAl99" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"BigAl99" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"BigAl99" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"BigAl99" said:
When they want an increase in pay ask what new skills they are working on, and support that as a way to a raise, create a CI culture. I constantly tell the floor workers, they need to look at they bring to the table. The worst thing I ever heard was a operator, who had just got a raise tell me that "he gets paid to much" to clean up his machine.
are new skills expected of those benefitting from the artificial mandated increase? Isn't it expected that the current system of reward is based somewhat on rewarding skill levels and that those earning the lowest wages bring the least amount of valued skills and experience to the company they work for?
Yep, min wage is a starting point position, not a hopeless destination. Fifteen bucks an hour is 31K a year, do you think these jobs also include health and life insurance, any other benefits?
problem is... some are more than happy not to improve themselves as employees, we offer all kinds of incentives to employees to get better training and with it pay increases, some do the work, others just sit around and piss and moan about their pay check. not everybody is motivated enough to help themselves.
Personally I think our country needs to treat high school graduates like army recruits, take the ASVAB test and find out what people are good candidates for in terms of attitude and interest, match those qualities and what not up with needed jobs in our country and make free or really really affordable education available to any kid that wants to enter those fields, provided those kids graduate and take the jobs that they are then trained for, their education costs are forgiven based on years of service. In SD we have a program like that for need based students called "Build Dakota" skilled fields of need are identified and any eligible kids that want to enter those fields are eligible for a scholarship that is sponsored by employers from those fields. Kids that complete their training then have options of where they want to go to work. My SIL got his RN this way and him and my daughter were able to come away with a really sweet deal once the competing hospitals found out they were basically getting 2 RNs for the price of 1 since I had already paid for my daughters education. My daughter used that leverage though to get a higher starting wage.
anyway, IMO if we truly want to improve the bottom line for the bottom earners, we need to change the way we prepare some people for their working life. starting in Jr High we need to start focusing their educations more on things that will help them earn a living and less on things that wont and then using testing make more of an effort to help steer those kids towards something that will pay the bills instead of having a society filled with teenage superstar athletes that have no life skills for when their athletic careers end at 18. I am all for student loan forgiveness, but it needs to be for those that actually finish their schooling and are entering fields of need.
sorry I kind of went OT there.
Sounds like one hell of a government mandate to get them to do things that are all ready available. Hell, Americans won't even cover their mouths to prevent illness when told to, all the while saying their second amendment insures that freedom.
what govt mandate is that?
"Personally I think our country needs to treat high school graduates like army recruits, take the ASVAB test and find out what people are good candidates for in terms of attitude and interest, match those qualities and what not up with needed jobs in our country and make free or really really affordable education available to any kid that wants to enter those fields, provided those kids graduate and take the jobs that they are then trained for, their education costs are forgiven based on years of service."
That one implied by "our country" and "treat like army recruits", once you are in the Army aren't you considered gov. property or is that jus a movie myth. Did I miss your point?
Yeah, you did. I am saying our public school system fails a lot of kids because of the myth that all kids can become whatever they want. Fact is that there are limitations, se we are born with,, some are cultural,, but mostly self imposed, and we would be much better served by creating a system that prepares us for the realities of life than one that we are currently using that leaves so many in the wake of reality.
I am not saying pigeon hole kids at 13 for a life of servitude, but rather make them more aware at an early age of what their current attitude and interests prepare them for, if that is their goal or limitations put them on a path that prepares them better for that destination, but if they yearn for more then show them early on that they are not on the right path and hopefully they have the intestinal fortitude to choose a better route.
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