Quote: @Mike Olson said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
The quoted part is the part that is both true and extremely sad at the same time.
Edit: not your take Jimmy but the reality.
but others I think just dont want to deal with the distraction
What is sad about that? Distractions hurt teams and these owners have easily over $200 million invested into each season, why risk a huge distraction on a guy that really isn't that great to begin with?
If he was a black tom brady or aaron rogers would he still be out of work? What about other black players that have been political but weren't "black listed"?
Life's not fair, but that's how it is, better payers get away with shit that average or sub par players dont. Kap over estimated his value as a player and then lost.
What I think is sad is that we deal with it as a distraction. We have been kicking this can down the road for decades and decades from Jackie Robinson, and Hank Aarron to any number of black athletes that want to point out where we are wrong as a nation. As long as we continue to keep dismissing these things as a distraction from the game then we will continue (and rightfully so) have people speak out about injustices. While I said I don't agree with everything he has said. I think he is ill informed on some of his points or at least he definitely had been. But the NFL is missing the boat on this and the sad part is they could have controlled this and embraced what he is trying to do rather than try to sweep it under the rug. If you stop and think about things like wage disparity between black folk and white folks it is undeniable that there is a disparity there. When you look at what types of things those disparities can effect on a family you start to get a better understanding of how deeply and systemic these issues run and why we end up with the multitudes of issues that we have. Really one only needs to look at the question of "why do we allow a black man to earn 76% of the salary of a white man?" I care about how workers are treated because that is the lifeblood of our country. It is something that we have completely lost focus on here in the last 30 some years.
Like I said I don't agree with some of his stuff, but as a country of workers we should be demanding answers on why this is allowed to keep happening. Because I for one can't come up with any good reason as to why we have a systemic problem where we don't pay people the same based on their color of skin. NFL could have and shoukd have found a way to address his message and turn it into a meaningful conversation. And I am no saying that they shoukd have done that for moral reasons (which maybe they should have) But a smart business man shoukd have seen where this was going and turned the net negative into a net positive. Because the league hasn't gained anything on this issue. They just continue to punch themselves in the face.
Tell me how the league should have spun this and not alienated sponsors and advertisers?
Also if the wage disparity is truly race based, should there be lawsuits? The can put all the stats up they want bit I have to think like so many other stats, they don't tell the whole story.
I've heard that Kap's biggest problem is his lady friend influence...
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
Tell me how the league should have spun this and not alienated sponsors and advertisers?
Also if the wage disparity is truly race based, should there be lawsuits? The can put all the stats up they want bit I have to think like so many other stats, they don't tell the whole story.
That is a great question Jimmy but the answer is complicated. For one thing you are assuming that it is an easy thing to combat legally and it isn't. While we have anti-discrimination laws on the books, it is pretty easy to defeat a case as many times all the employer has to do is to say that they've taken remedial action and the best part is that they don't have to reveal what that remedial action is (depending on state law - federal cases are almost impossible to win). Also almost any business is going to be smart enough to not put into writing or any other hard evidence that they are discriminating, in fact it might not be a cognitive thing at all, and that is the point of what the real issue is. Societal norms where people deny it happening. And to be honest with you I think a lot of time that people denying it has more to do with wanting to believe that people are better than that. It's the ostrich approach..."Surely this isn't happening in our country"... Well it is and it does and it happens for a lot of reasons some of which have to do with workers agreeing to take wages lower than they should because of longstanding societal pressures and norms that still exist, which have always existed. Those things are subsiding and the effect of that is that we have to work through that turbulence.
An article I have cited on this the last couple years from Forbes is some good food for thought.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2...0d3a6b1f45
That article has lots of facts, and studies and I know that you said what you said about facts, and I will agree that both can be manipulated. But what else are we left with? Anecdotal evidence? When you see the effects in terms of achievement gaps, wealth gaps, education gaps, and it's plain as day, what is the answer? Millions and millions of people of different minority status just choose to not be able to have any sort of class mobility because lazy? And even if that was the answer how does that help our country succeed? It doesn't.
Wage disparity ought to be a trans-political concept that we should all be able to get behind and agree that yep this shouldn't exist top to bottom. That's a no brainer. And it's one of the biggest things that we can do to fix some things.
Quote: @Mike Olson said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Tell me how the league should have spun this and not alienated sponsors and advertisers?
Also if the wage disparity is truly race based, should there be lawsuits? The can put all the stats up they want bit I have to think like so many other stats, they don't tell the whole story.
That is a great question Jimmy but the answer is complicated. For one thing you are assuming that it is an easy thing to combat legally and it isn't. While we have anti-discrimination laws on the books, it is pretty easy to defeat a case as many times all the employer has to do is to say that they've taken remedial action and the best part is that they don't have to reveal what that remedial action is (depending on state law - federal cases are almost impossible to win). Also almost any business is going to be smart enough to not put into writing or any other hard evidence that they are discriminating, in fact it might not be a cognitive thing at all, and that is the point of what the real issue is. Societal norms where people deny it happening. And to be honest with you I think a lot of time that people denying it has more to do with wanting to believe that people are better than that. It's the ostrich approach..."Surely this isn't happening in our country"... Well it is and it does and it happens for a lot of reasons some of which have to do with workers agreeing to take wages lower than they should because of longstanding societal pressures and norms that still exist, which have always existed. Those things are subsiding and the effect of that is that we have to work through that turbulence.
An article I have cited on this the last couple years from Forbes is some good food for thought.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2...0d3a6b1f45
That article has lots of facts, and studies and I know that you said what you said about facts, and I will agree that both can be manipulated. But what else are we left with? Anecdotal evidence? When you see the effects in terms of achievement gaps, wealth gaps, education gaps, and it's plain as day, what is the answer? Millions and millions of people of different minority status just choose to not be able to have any sort of class mobility because lazy? And even if that was the answer how does that help our country succeed? It doesn't.
Wage disparity ought to be a trans-political concept that we should all be able to get behind and agree that yep this shouldn't exist top to bottom. That's a no brainer. And it's one of the biggest things that we can do to fix some things.
I agree with a lot if what is said, but I don't agree that it is necessarily a discrimination issue alone that leads to these racial wealth divides.
This isnt an issue that can be fixed with love beads, race riots, sit ins and all the other happy hippie or angry militant approaches of the past. IMO The only way this changes is through hard work by the affected minorities themselves to break from the social dependency prisons that they our govt programs have created. They need themselves to make changes in their own ways of life, their own neighborhoods, etc.
Want to create wealth, clean up your shitty neighborhoods and report the criminals to the cops, don't protect them, don't rail against the police that are called in to do their very dangerous jobs. People will invest in clean safe neighborhoods, that will increase property values and attract better families and as such better teachers for better schools.
Ignoranice and poverty aren't a racial issue as we see the same shit regardless of skin color, what it boils down to is pride and a truer understanding of what wealth is and how its really obtained. Its not a new cell phone or an X box, it's not a new truck regardless of what sacrufices are made to cover the payment, that's what young impoverished people of all color fall victim to.
It's a mentality that having stuff creates self worth and it's wrong, owning stuff debt free is real wealth and real freedom and getting it on your own is the only way it's apreciated.
We can't fix this problem with more handouts, we can't fix this problem by making things easier for minorities. People just don't seem to appreciate or positively take advantage of easy, this is an issue that they have to fix for themselves. Battling poverty doesnt happen on a macro level, its about each individual making a concious effort and refusing to be held down. It won't be easy, but it's possible for those that refuse to be chained down....regardless of color.
People want to talk about the wealth gap and taxing into equality, I am fine with higher taxes on the wealthy, but it can't be used to artificially prop up the lower classes through more handouts, it has to be used to create more opportunities for these lower classes to improve their own situations through education and jobs. But a rich black athlete taking a knee isn't going motivate a young black man to get off the street corner go to school, work hard, and start a business. Just like talking about injustices isn't going to fix the problem, in fact it will only make it worse as those affected are only going to hear more and more excuses as to why they can't make it and a that will build to the point of apathy....why bother if it's such an insurmountable hill to climb.
***Should we be moving this to a different board as we are edging along a few boundaries we said we wouldn't be crossing on the main board?
Quote: @A1Janitor said:
LMAO. What a joke. Butterflies can't read a civil discussion about the main topic in the NFL on the football board.
Settle down, it's still there isn't it? And if the suggestion that it might possibly be moved sets you to name calling maybe that is why we have the separate board.
And you have access to use the other board so what does it matter to you anyway?
It's definitely complicated. For some, it's a distraction. And others, it lead to making a difference. I do like what he is doing with the million dollar pledge. It's cool to see how many people are going to benefit from that. I like what Anquan Boldin is doing as well. Others players are carrying on with the kneeling during the anthem, sitting or taking a knee. Michael Bennett and Marshawn Lynch come to mind. A couple of white players Chris Long and Justin Britt are supporting them. They are using the platform they have been given. It's not going to just go away whether some people would rather it did.
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