Quote: @"FSUVike" said:
Rhodes isn't going to rebound and you all know it. His game was never based on technique ala Newman or Sherman. It was based on speed and physicality. The speed is gone and the physicality has been legislated out of the League.
At 29 I don't see Xavier suddenly learning the subtler techniques of being a fundamentally strong Cornerback and extending his career. He's Josh Norman. And like Norman he's no longer a starter.
One would think Zimmer would be glad to get rid of a guy who was overly reliant on his athleticism instead of technique now that it's painfully obvious that athleticism is gone.
I think it's more likely that he pounds the table to re-sign Waynes. Trae is still young enough that he might improve. I doubt it. He's never fully trusted his technique and has played tentatively more often than not. We've all seen the flashes of potential to be good or really good but there's no consistency. And then he regressed.
But I bet Mike can talk himself into turning Waynes around much more easily than Rhodes.
Josh Norman is 3 years older than Rhodes. And I don't think anyone's expecting to once again see the Rhodes of 2017. Only that restructuring about 6 to 8 million out of his cap hit could give us some depth and experience at a position where, currently, Kris Boyd and Holton Hill are the only healthy players under contract.
I'd rather re-sign Alexander than Waynes. But I would say that Waynes is more likely.
Quote: @"FSUVike" said:
Rhodes isn't going to rebound and you all know it. His game was never based on technique ala Newman or Sherman. It was based on speed and physicality. The speed is gone and the physicality has been legislated out of the League.
At 29 I don't see Xavier suddenly learning the subtler techniques of being a fundamentally strong Cornerback and extending his career. He's Josh Norman. And like Norman he's no longer a starter.
One would think Zimmer would be glad to get rid of a guy who was overly reliant on his athleticism instead of technique now that it's painfully obvious that athleticism is gone.
I think it's more likely that he pounds the table to re-sign Waynes. Trae is still young enough that he might improve. I doubt it. He's never fully trusted his technique and has played tentatively more often than not. We've all seen the flashes of potential to be good or really good but there's no consistency. And then he regressed.
But I bet Mike can talk himself into turning Waynes around much more easily than Rhodes.
Rhodes was also put in an tough position when they played more zone since it eliminates his ability to get his hands on receivers at the LOS. You can still do that effectively today. If you look at 2018/19 Rhodes struggles most when he's playing read & react coverage. His size is so intimidating to receivers that when up at the line he can literally defeat leverage and force a guy inside or out. That at least eliminates half the route tree each snap. Basically, given the alignment he was playing with a huge advantage. They took that away.
So Rhodes future really comes down to how the Vikings want to play coverage moving forward. If its going to be zone based, they likely need to move on. If they're open to allowing him to play man he should be brought back on re-negotiated deal.
The Vikings have shown both the inclination and the ability to keep veteran players around during the entirety of Zimmer's tenure.
I like reading the speculation, but I expect almost all of these "cut candidates" to be back.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
The long-term implications of restructuring Reiff are not good. It makes his 2021 cap number nearly $19M with $7M in dead money. He is a better candidate for an extension/restructure. That way they have some flexibility to spread the money out over time while still guaranteeing Reiff more money. Rudolph's extension last year was a good example of this.
The issue with Reiff is his play has declined slightly the last two seasons. Should the Vikings absorb that 13 mil cap hit next year to see for themselves the inevitable decline?
Sometime you have to get younger with more upside.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
The long-term implications of restructuring Reiff are not good. It makes his 2021 cap number nearly $19M with $7M in dead money. He is a better candidate for an extension/restructure. That way they have some flexibility to spread the money out over time while still guaranteeing Reiff more money. Rudolph's extension last year was a good example of this.
If you read Luke's twitter thread, he (and others) do a lot of different scenarios. There are so many things to consider beyond just money. Impact to the depth chart, for example. Take Rudolph. If you cut him (unlikely, I know) that only gives you $3M in cap space. So is it worth it? On one hand, it doesn't save you much. But on the other, he is a player that we could lose without feeling it too much in the Xs and Os, especially if we get Morgan back (I like Brandon Dillon a lot, too).
Everyone says we have to re-sign Harris, but name another team with $20M going to the safety position and almost nothing going to its corners.
Oh, they have a million different possibilities. But I wouldn't call Harris being back a sure thing. It doesn't make sense to spend $20M on safeties... especially if you're going to play a lot of zone. They could restructure Smith (which they have interest in doing) which makes his 2020 cap hit more palatable. That gives them some flexibility to either resign or tag Harris. That isn't a long-term solution though.
The issue is that they don't have much depth at safety and I'm not sure they'll want to trust a rookie to start week one. Although I have a gut feeling Zimmer and the defensive staff are going to fall in love with Xavier McKinney. Kid can ball.
I cant see them paying Harris more than Smith. I wouldn't. I think they could extend Kearse and Sendejo for a lot less than Harris. Or they could consider Tre Boston.
Quote: @"MarkSP18" said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
The long-term implications of restructuring Reiff are not good. It makes his 2021 cap number nearly $19M with $7M in dead money. He is a better candidate for an extension/restructure. That way they have some flexibility to spread the money out over time while still guaranteeing Reiff more money. Rudolph's extension last year was a good example of this.
If you read Luke's twitter thread, he (and others) do a lot of different scenarios. There are so many things to consider beyond just money. Impact to the depth chart, for example. Take Rudolph. If you cut him (unlikely, I know) that only gives you $3M in cap space. So is it worth it? On one hand, it doesn't save you much. But on the other, he is a player that we could lose without feeling it too much in the Xs and Os, especially if we get Morgan back (I like Brandon Dillon a lot, too).
Everyone says we have to re-sign Harris, but name another team with $20M going to the safety position and almost nothing going to its corners.
Oh, they have a million different possibilities. But I wouldn't call Harris being back a sure thing. It doesn't make sense to spend $20M on safeties... especially if you're going to play a lot of zone. They could restructure Smith (which they have interest in doing) which makes his 2020 cap hit more palatable. That gives them some flexibility to either resign or tag Harris. That isn't a long-term solution though.
The issue is that they don't have much depth at safety and I'm not sure they'll want to trust a rookie to start week one. Although I have a gut feeling Zimmer and the defensive staff are going to fall in love with Xavier McKinney. Kid can ball.
I cant see them paying Harris more than Smith. I wouldn't. I think they could extend Kearse and Sendejo for a lot less than Harris. Or they could consider Tre Boston.
Kearse has no intention of coming back, so that is off the table. Sendejo and rookie is probably the best alternative to Harris. Due to the safety market changing since Smith resigned there won't be an ill-will if Harris is making more. Its natural inflation within the salary cap. Point being is that if they do keep Harris they likely extend Harrison so his 2020 cash flow likely would surpass Harris anyways so its a non-issue.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@"FSUVike" said:
Rhodes isn't going to rebound and you all know it. His game was never based on technique ala Newman or Sherman. It was based on speed and physicality. The speed is gone and the physicality has been legislated out of the League.
At 29 I don't see Xavier suddenly learning the subtler techniques of being a fundamentally strong Cornerback and extending his career. He's Josh Norman. And like Norman he's no longer a starter.
One would think Zimmer would be glad to get rid of a guy who was overly reliant on his athleticism instead of technique now that it's painfully obvious that athleticism is gone.
I think it's more likely that he pounds the table to re-sign Waynes. Trae is still young enough that he might improve. I doubt it. He's never fully trusted his technique and has played tentatively more often than not. We've all seen the flashes of potential to be good or really good but there's no consistency. And then he regressed.
But I bet Mike can talk himself into turning Waynes around much more easily than Rhodes.
Rhodes was also put in an tough position when they played more zone since it eliminates his ability to get his hands on receivers at the LOS. You can still do that effectively today. If you look at 2018/19 Rhodes struggles most when he's playing read & react coverage. His size is so intimidating to receivers that when up at the line he can literally defeat leverage and force a guy inside or out. That at least eliminates half the route tree each snap. Basically, given the alignment he was playing with a huge advantage. They took that away.
So Rhodes future really comes down to how the Vikings want to play coverage moving forward. If its going to be zone based, they likely need to move on. If they're open to allowing him to play man he should be brought back on re-negotiated deal.
Wasn't it Rhodes inability to play his man style of coverage the primary reason they went zone a lot more? It seems that Rhodes decline was in play prior to Zim changing the look.
Quote: @"FSUVike" said:
Rhodes isn't going to rebound and you all know it. His game was never based on technique ala Newman or Sherman. It was based on speed and physicality. The speed is gone and the physicality has been legislated out of the League.
At 29 I don't see Xavier suddenly learning the subtler techniques of being a fundamentally strong Cornerback and extending his career. He's Josh Norman. And like Norman he's no longer a starter.
One would think Zimmer would be glad to get rid of a guy who was overly reliant on his athleticism instead of technique now that it's painfully obvious that athleticism is gone.
I think it's more likely that he pounds the table to re-sign Waynes. Trae is still young enough that he might improve. I doubt it. He's never fully trusted his technique and has played tentatively more often than not. We've all seen the flashes of potential to be good or really good but there's no consistency. And then he regressed.
But I bet Mike can talk himself into turning Waynes around much more easily than Rhodes.
Maybe, re Xavier - I think he is a test case of whether this staff retains players too much out of sentiment and familiarity. If Rhodes wants his full contract salary of +$12M, I'm sure he's gone, but I bet they are talking about some restructure that gets that to a lower level. Keeping X seems like keeping Barr last year: not a logical value but can they stand to break up the Donut Club?
But I definitely think you are right about Zimmer wanting to retain Waynes - AND Alexander. No CB, including Captain Munnerlyn, has had success during his first year in Zimmer's system. Especially if this is truly a make-or-break / all-in season, he's going to want corners he has already coached for 4 or 5 years. (And want them more than Ant Harris.)
Barr isn't even remotely analogous to Rhodes. He does so many things that don't show up in the Stat Sheets. And those things he does allows Kendricks to play at an All Pro level. Barr is KJ Wright and Kendricks is Bobby Wagner. Wright gets very little attention but Wagner would not be who is has been without him.
Quote: @"FSUVike" said:
Barr isn't even remotely analogous to Rhodes. He does so many things that don't show up in the Stat Sheets. And those things he does allows Kendricks to play at an All Pro level. Barr is KJ Wright and Kendricks is Bobby Wagner. Wright gets very little attention but Wagner would not be who is has been without him.
True that the comparison isn't perfect and Barr is better than Rhodes. But a year ago, many people felt Barr was coming off a subpar year (many complaints about his coverage problems, especially against the Rams), plenty of feelings he made too few impact plays, and there was more than a bit of "good riddance" attitude when it appeared he was leaving.
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