Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Jor-El said:
Some of you guys are calling this "a haul"...seriously? I see exactly ONE premium draft pick, the first rounder (and it ain't a top 10 pick). After that we have a couple of late picks, which are a crapshoot, and a 4th rounder - next year. Great, a 4th round pick , where the Vikings have recently acquired such contributors as Jalyn Holmes, Willie Beavers, TJ Clemmings, and Jaleel Johnson. But hey, maybe we'll strike gold with that pick and get someone on the level of Ben Gedeon!
The Bills just acquired one of the 10 (maybe 5) best WRs in the NFL, only 26 years old, and will pair him with John Brown, who caught 72 passes for over 1,000 yards as a rookie. We received the 22nd pick (yay, 1 pick higher than we picked Laquon Treadwell!), and our #2 WR is now Bisi Johnson.
Unless Diggs was a genuine locker-room cancer far beyond anything reported and will melt down in Antonio Brown style within a year, this trade is a tragedy for the Vikings.
Agree. There is one winner here: The Bills. And two losers: the Vikings and Diggs.
All picks after the 4th round are guesses, and all picks next year are mostly meaningless. Grains of sand to balance a scale. So this is essentially Diggs for the 22nd pick. I don't think anyone got fleeced here--it's fair value in the market of capital and services.
But when you factor in just how much Diggs meant to this offense, and how difficult that will be to replace, considering all the other needs, the Vikings have definitely taken a step backward.
I think the best thing the Vikings can do right now is sign a low-cost veteran receiver who can step into the #2 role and draft another receiver in either rounds 1 or 2 to compete with him. We absolutely cannot count on a rookie receiver to come in and contribute, much less replace the kind of attention that Diggs drew from defenses.
There is an argument to be made from a best-use-of-resources perspective. Vikings were a running team spending nearly $30M on its wide receivers. THAT, I get. But in order for this to work, the Vikings have to turn this transaction into one HELL of a running game, despite the fact that, right now anyway, the key to beating the Vikings is simple: double Thielen and stack the box.
I would be curious to know what you think another team would have realistically offered where you would pull the trigger?
Two starters. So either a 1st and a player or a 1st and a 3rd--a player who should eventually start. Even then I'm not sure I do it. Yesterday, we were a team with a bunch of holes to fill on defense, but an offense that could conceivably become elite with better protection, or at least good enough to render a further downgrade on defense somewhat tolerable.
Today, we're a team who just took a significant blow to that offense...and the holes on defense are still there, too. Can we replace Diggs? Of course. We'll replace his spot on the roster. But I think people are underestimating just how hard it is to find a receiver of that caliber.
Go ahead, look at all the 1st round receivers at the link below...if you dare. It's not a pretty picture. Notice how many of them had little or no impact their rookie season, about 90%. Go back a decade, two decades. It's a parade of busts. No, you strike gold on a receiver like Diggs, you find a way to keep him. Oh, but those "cryptic tweets." LOL. People react as if he PERSONALLY offended them in some way. I'll show you, Diggs! SMH
http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/wr
do you honestly think it was the tweets alone that pushed Rick to accept this offer? it certainly wasnt the offer that blew his skirt up, its not bad, but its not that earth shattering, just because the dirt wasnt reaching the fans doesnt mean there wasnt more to this trade than a kid on a cell phone.
Of course not. I was mocking everyone who got upset by them.
i got sick of him trying to be cute, i thought his tweet and be coy routine was juvenile and chicken shit when I suspected all along that he was trying to force his way out of Minny or at least trying to get them to redo his new deal after 1 year. he wasnt happy and wasnt making an effort to hide it. That type of behavior is not conducive to a good locker room and at some point its in the teams best interest to cut off the tumor, whether it was cancerous or not.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
30 TDs in 5 seasons played. Averaging just over 5 a season. I don't think his numbers are so high they can't be replaced. Only 2 1,000 yard seasons and just barely above 1,000.
I wouldn't let the numbers trick you into thinking Diggs' talent can be replaced, it can't. His route running is some of the best I've ever seen. His ability to separate is a QB's best friend.
But you don't need a player as talented as Diggs for this offense to function effectively. Diggs talent wasn't maximized since Kirk won't cut the ball loose when his receivers are contested and won't come off his keys. For that reason I see Diggs level of frustration because he was at times playing on another level and the ball wouldn't come. In wk 2 against the Packers he should have had 200+ yards and 3 TDs. Against the Bears he should have gone for 200+ as well. Those games combined he had 8 receptions for about 150 yards and a single TD.
If you aren't going to use it, allocate the resources elsewhere.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Jor-El said:
Some of you guys are calling this "a haul"...seriously? I see exactly ONE premium draft pick, the first rounder (and it ain't a top 10 pick). After that we have a couple of late picks, which are a crapshoot, and a 4th rounder - next year. Great, a 4th round pick , where the Vikings have recently acquired such contributors as Jalyn Holmes, Willie Beavers, TJ Clemmings, and Jaleel Johnson. But hey, maybe we'll strike gold with that pick and get someone on the level of Ben Gedeon!
The Bills just acquired one of the 10 (maybe 5) best WRs in the NFL, only 26 years old, and will pair him with John Brown, who caught 72 passes for over 1,000 yards as a rookie. We received the 22nd pick (yay, 1 pick higher than we picked Laquon Treadwell!), and our #2 WR is now Bisi Johnson.
Unless Diggs was a genuine locker-room cancer far beyond anything reported and will melt down in Antonio Brown style within a year, this trade is a tragedy for the Vikings.
Agree. There is one winner here: The Bills. And two losers: the Vikings and Diggs.
All picks after the 4th round are guesses, and all picks next year are mostly meaningless. Grains of sand to balance a scale. So this is essentially Diggs for the 22nd pick. I don't think anyone got fleeced here--it's fair value in the market of capital and services.
But when you factor in just how much Diggs meant to this offense, and how difficult that will be to replace, considering all the other needs, the Vikings have definitely taken a step backward.
I think the best thing the Vikings can do right now is sign a low-cost veteran receiver who can step into the #2 role and draft another receiver in either rounds 1 or 2 to compete with him. We absolutely cannot count on a rookie receiver to come in and contribute, much less replace the kind of attention that Diggs drew from defenses.
There is an argument to be made from a best-use-of-resources perspective. Vikings were a running team spending nearly $30M on its wide receivers. THAT, I get. But in order for this to work, the Vikings have to turn this transaction into one HELL of a running game, despite the fact that, right now anyway, the key to beating the Vikings is simple: double Thielen and stack the box.
I would be curious to know what you think another team would have realistically offered where you would pull the trigger?
Two starters. So either a 1st and a player or a 1st and a 3rd--a player who should eventually start. Even then I'm not sure I do it. Yesterday, we were a team with a bunch of holes to fill on defense, but an offense that could conceivably become elite with better protection, or at least good enough to render a further downgrade on defense somewhat tolerable.
Today, we're a team who just took a significant blow to that offense...and the holes on defense are still there, too. Can we replace Diggs? Of course. We'll replace his spot on the roster. But I think people are underestimating just how hard it is to find a receiver of that caliber.
Go ahead, look at all the 1st round receivers at the link below...if you dare. It's not a pretty picture. Notice how many of them had little or no impact their rookie season, about 90%. Go back a decade, two decades. It's a parade of busts. No, you strike gold on a receiver like Diggs, you find a way to keep him. Oh, but those "cryptic tweets." LOL. People react as if he PERSONALLY offended them in some way. I'll show you, Diggs! SMH
http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/wr
do you honestly think it was the tweets alone that pushed Rick to accept this offer? it certainly wasnt the offer that blew his skirt up, its not bad, but its not that earth shattering, just because the dirt wasnt reaching the fans doesnt mean there wasnt more to this trade than a kid on a cell phone.
Of course not. I was mocking everyone who got upset by them.
Really? I've been mocking those who thought there was nothing to his tweets.
How'd that work out?
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ StickyBun said:
30 TDs in 5 seasons played. Averaging just over 5 a season. I don't think his numbers are so high they can't be replaced. Only 2 1,000 yard seasons and just barely above 1,000.
I wouldn't let the numbers trick you into thinking Diggs' talent can be replaced, it can't. His route running is some of the best I've ever seen. His ability to separate is a QB's best friend.
But you don't need a player as talented as Diggs for this offense to function effectively. Diggs talent wasn't maximized since Kirk won't cut the ball loose when his receivers are contested and won't come off his keys. For that reason I see Diggs level of frustration because he was at times playing on another level and the ball wouldn't come. In wk 2 against the Packers he should have had 200+ yards and 3 TDs. Against the Bears he should have gone for 200+ as well. Those games combined he had 8 receptions for about 150 yards and a single TD.
If you aren't going to use it, allocate the resources elsewhere.
I guess we'll find out about Diggs in Buffalo. His production has thus far not equated to his talent level. I liked Diggs very much but when you look at the numbers, its almost pedestrian. So what does talent really mean anyway if the production isn't there? I kept hearing about how Treadwell was a good receiver, but Diggs and Thielen were in front of him. So what will the excuse be if he doesn't product in Buffalo? Again, not saying he won't produce. He might have a breakout year there. Zero doubt he's a very talented guy which I've said several times today.
His route running has been analyzed around the league and he’s widely considered an elite route runner. We ARE going to miss him, no doubt. Thielen and Diggs worked very well together so that chemistry is shot, too.
Again, I truly do feel the team probably had to move on from him, and probably didn’t have much of a choice about it. Diggs is going to have a super-sized chip on his shoulder this season so if Allen can throw the ball anywhere near him, look out.
...all I keep thinking about was that awful home game against the Bills...
Looking for the over/under
Which week will the Bills fine Diggs for missing meetings and practices when he gets frustrated by Josh Allen and his 8% deep ball completion %?
I'm thinking week 3
Quote: @"BarrNone55" said:
Looking for the over/under
Which week will the Bills fine Diggs for missing meetings and practices when he gets frustrated by Josh Allen and his 8% deep ball completion %?
I'm thinking week 3
I keep thinking about him playing outside in Buffalo where half their home games are played in zero visibility on a shitty track.
OH! and how much fun would it be now to draft his brother?
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
OH! and how much fun would it be now to draft his brother?
Good chance we will now
Diggs was at or near the top of the League in contested catches again this year. The notion that Kirk wouldn't throw it to him unless he was wide open was flat out overstated by Guru.
I find it interesting that SilverJoel posted a side-by-side comparison of the two star Wideouts production when playing without the other that not 1 single proponent of the deal has commented on....
This Franchise is screwed if they can't learn to handle big egos and childish behavior. You think the younger generations coming up are less entitled? Less apt to air their dirty laundry on Social Media? Less likely to have a Me-First Mentality?
I am a Recruiter. For the largest online retailer in the world. I'm Gen X and find myself shaking my head on a daily basis at the outlandish expectations these kids have coming out of school. Degreed Engineers looking for C Suite money with terrible written communication skills and not much better social skills.
You know what? I don't have to like them to recruit them. And my Hiring Mangers find ways get them to be productive quickly, despite the drama.
Now imagine that same age group getting millions of dollars to play Sports. With their huge group of groupthink hangers-on. And their penchant to play video games and blab on Social Media instead of going outside and engaging with humans in person.
The Minnesota Vikings have now failed 3 times at WR and once at RB when it comes to dealing with highly productive divas. One of the Receivers is in the HOF. The RB will be one day, too.
And who's to say Adam isn't next out the door? He factually performed less well than Diggs on his own. His methodology may differ but why assume he would be happy with his targets and not follow Diggs' path?
Oh, he'd never do that, you'll say. Why? Cuz he's white? He's already called his QB out publicly. And by doing so called out Zimmer's run-first preference in the process.
I don't know if it's an Upper Midwest thing, a Wilf thing, a Rick thing or a Zimmer thing. At some point the franchise needs to stop acting like a grumpy old man yelling at the kids on his lawn and learn how to manage around the behavior. Ignore him and fine him. Sooner than later it will work. Kids need cash and so do their hanger-ons.
Most of you want to win a Super Bowl before you die. Me, too. I don't see that happening if they can't learn to deal with precocious talents. This was hardly Owens or Brown level acting out. But if Diggs' behavior is the bar you're going to see more kids wanting out only to be replaced by much less talented players who happen to keep their mouths shut.
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