Quote: @suncoastvike said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ greediron said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ purplefaithful said:
And in March at the owners meetings, Zimmer famously referred to Diggs as a “celebrity” after his Minneapolis Miracle and added, “We’re not a bunch of celebrity guys.” I don’t profess to know exactly who Zimmer’s “guys” are, but I would wager that Kendricks and Hunter are closer to that definition than Barr and Diggs.
I don't agree with that conclusion, at least related to Barr. In what way has he acted like a "celebrity"? He seems to be a pretty quiet guy and didn't get sucked too badly into the publicity after his Aaron Rodgers hit.
As for whether Barr is one of "Zimmer's guys" - who was the first draft pick ever in Zimmer's tenure as Vikings HC? Anthony Barr. I don't think that's an accident; I think Zimmer saw Barr as a key component of the defense he wanted to build. Sure, he has chided him occasionally, but that has always struck me as being like parental prodding, not a sign he was truly mad or giving up on Barr.
We're overly scared of losing Diggs because the Vikings have been so incompetent at drafting WRs highly for 20 years. But in the NFL as a whole, a fairly-productive WR is usually a lot easier to find than a player like Barr, who has the physical ability of a 3-4 pass rushing OLB and the intelligence to handle the complex assignments of Zimmer's defensive scheme.
I'm sure the Vikings hope to extend both of them...but with Hunter done, I would bet heavily Barr is a higher priority and will be next.
I could agree with the conclusion, not vehemently, but it makes sense in the fact that Kendricks and Hunter are the rock solid pieces to a great D. I do agree that Barr is huge component of the D, but his main weakness is being a bit soft.
Diggs on the other hand fits the "celebrity" definition too well. And as you say, WRs are much easier to find than DEs.
Somehow the Vikings have managed to suck at finding WR's till as of late...That was a long run of bad since Sid Rice.
If I had to lose Diggs or Barr? I'd be saying goodby to Anthony, especially after just signing Cousins. Taking away that weapon from him probably wouldnt go over too well with the new OC or new QB.
I agree WR draught was ridiculous. Kinda started right after Rice. When the Seahags signed him for the 4 year deal I'm glad we passed on. That's the worry about giving big contracts to guys who seem easy to injure.
As a side note the franchise tag that year was used for Chad Greenway over Rice. Does history repeat itself?
I see Rice as part of the drought, myself - he was ultimately a one-year wonder, and we dodged a bullet letting him leave.
I also fear the Vikings could give Diggs a huge deal before this season, but then see him hurt part of the year, and guys like Wright and Treadwell step up and do pretty well...good QBs tend to bring out the best in their WRs. Not saying those guys are better than Diggs, but there are WRs on the roster with the potential to do well if he's out (and I would include Coles as well).
OTOH, who on our current roster can take over for Barr?
I just don't see us offering Diggs Top 10 WR money when he has never produced a full season close to Top 10 numbers.
Just eye-balling Top 10 WR production the last few years they tend to produce about 85+ catches, about 1200 yds and around 10 TD's.
Diggs stats:
2015 - 13 games - 52 catches, 720 yds, 4 TD's WR yards rank 52nd
2016 - 13 games - 84 catches, 903 yds, 3 TD's WR yards rank 34th
2017 - 14 games - 64 catches, 849 yds, 8 TD's WR yards rank 25th
Sure you base contracts for young guys like Diggs, Hunter etc somewhat on potential to put up better stats in the future but you also have to be realistic. Top 10 WR's average around 12/13 million per year. The second 10 WR's average in the 10-12 million range. This is the area based on "potential" progression I would think we should offer Diggs per year -10 or 11 million range. I would not venture into the 13/14 million dollar range which I think he is looking for.
I think Barr isn't exactly Zimmer's kind of player temperament-wise: he takes some plays off. But he's a top level athlete that is hard to find at the position. I mean, 6'5", 255 lbs and runs like a deer. Just turned 26 years old in March. I think he's matured a bit in Minnesota.
Sign Barr, wait on Diggs----see if he gets nicked again this season to decide if franchise tag or base rate offer going forward.
Quote: @Akvike said:
Sign Barr, wait on Diggs----see if he gets nicked again this season to decide if franchise tag or base rate offer going forward.
I agree, partly because I think Diggs is valuing himself very highly due to the MM and the media attention that ensued. I don't think he will sign an extension unless he gets Sammy Watkins / Jarvis Landry money. He has not proved he is worth that, and he is not our #1 receiver. Sign him now and we will be buying at the highest price.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ Akvike said:
Sign Barr, wait on Diggs----see if he gets nicked again this season to decide if franchise tag or base rate offer going forward.
I agree, partly because I think Diggs is valuing himself very highly due to the MM and the media attention that ensued. I don't think he will sign an extension unless he gets Sammy Watkins / Jarvis Landry money. He has not proved he is worth that, and he is not our #1 receiver. Sign him now and we will be buying at the highest price.
Not our #1, but it becomes a lot easier to defend AT with no Diggs. Not sure our new QB or OC would be delighted losing Diggs.
As Maroonbell points out, a contract is based on future production forecast/trajectory as much as historical.
Signing Diggs now may mean we're getting him at a good price vs 10 mos from today. And maybe at the only price we could afford with an AT contract re-do on the horizon - let alone signing Richardson after this season.
If only we had a crystal ball...
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ Akvike said:
Sign Barr, wait on Diggs----see if he gets nicked again this season to decide if franchise tag or base rate offer going forward.
I agree, partly because I think Diggs is valuing himself very highly due to the MM and the media attention that ensued. I don't think he will sign an extension unless he gets Sammy Watkins / Jarvis Landry money. He has not proved he is worth that, and he is not our #1 receiver. Sign him now and we will be buying at the highest price.
Not our #1, but it becomes a lot easier to defend AT with no Diggs. Not sure our new QB or OC would be delighted losing Diggs.
As Maroonbell points out, a contract is based on future production forecast/trajectory as much as historical.
Signing Diggs now may mean we're getting him at a good price vs 10 mos from today. And maybe at the only price we could afford with an AT contract re-do on the horizon - let alone signing Richardson after this season.
If only we had a crystal ball...
but it should be fair to forecast Diggs as a 13 game player and as such his contract should reflect his health uncertainties. If he insists on top ten money, then it better come with heavy incentives and not as much in guarantees at those numbers. Pay him 80% but make him earn the final 20%... about 10-11 a year with incentives to 14ish.
Maybe the Vikings can say to Diggs... "Hey Diggsy. We love you. We also love Adam. You know what we love MORE? You AND Adam... TOGETHER. You guys are the top WR duo in the NFL and are going to put up RIDICULOUS numbers with Kirk. But in order to keep it that way, we have to give Adam a bump on his salary, but we also need to take care of you. How about we pay you both the same? Here's what we can do under the cap..." Then Brez waves his magic cap wand and... BOOM. Both signed.
They can both make a lot more money than they are currently, no one gets hurt feelings, they both can thrive, and Diggs can get PAID AGAIN in a few more years. Win, win baby!!!
BOOM
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