Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Zanary said:
@ VikingOracle said:
Keep this in mind -- Kyler Murray grew up a Vikings fan. Would you make a Cousins - Murray trade?
Nope...but it has practically nothing to do with Cousins.
We hung with Arizona until the latest in our heartbreaking missed kick series killed our efforts, so I don't pine for their offense vs ours...but instead, what I've noticed is that Murray looked worse in important games, looked bad as things got closer to playoff time. He's still a very good QB who likely has amazing potential... but I don't see mental toughness as much as I see a kid who's willing to take risks and his supporting cast has helped reward many of them.
That works in streaks, but...well, how many rings did Favre end up with in a two decade career?
if you are trying to convince me its a bad idea... you failed.
I dont care if he is a mental pussy, if he got us 1 ring in his career...well thats better than any other QB has done for the franchise in over 60 years. we cant get our 2nd until we get our first.
And in Cousins I see too many 3rd down check downs short of the sticks.
Name a QB who doesn't do this. This is my biggest pet peeve about football fans. So many complain about an 8 yard pass on 3rd and 12, when the truth is that, on 3rd down, the defense is stacked at the sticks. Sometimes your best hope of converting is throwing short of the sticks and hoping your guy can break through. It's not that QBs and OCs don't know where the marker is.
To follow up on this. Here's a great break down of exactly how Cousins compares to other QBs on 3rd and long. Hint: very good.
https://zonecoverage.com/2022/minnesota-...-and-long/
You probably also saw Kirk’s end of season PFF grades.
#1 in the LEAGUE from a clean pocket— outstanding
#17 in the league under pressure— ehh
#30 in big time throws under pressure— ouch
#32 in YPA under pressure— yuck
The fan narrative on Kirk I think is actually pretty close to the truth. He’s a phenomenal QB when given time, but defenses that can pressure him (read: good teams) will always be a problem. Big time fork in the road for the Vikings. Either keep trying to improve the OL to get the most out of their QB, or move on to someone who can perform better under pressure. Moving on might get you a higher ceiling, but that comes with a much lower floor.
I didn't see that. It's interesting. I think this is the 3rd year in a row that he finished 1st in the clean pocket ranking.
It depends on what fan narrative you're referring to. Most of it is from idiots on Twitter, but there's the "gets his stats from garbage time," which has been proven to be nonsense. "He's a check-down Charlie." More nonsense. "He's all stats; he can't come from behind." More nonsense. These are just a fraction of them.
Does he struggle under pressure? Yep. He's an immobile QB in a system that likes to throw long. That's gonna happen. I'll say one thing: it's far easier to improve your OL than find a QB who can play at a high level in this league. That could take years. Decades. Vikings OL really shouldn't be that far off.
they likely arent that far off at OL, unless you have a QB doesnt sense pressure and move around in the pocket to keep pass rushers honest and guessing. Kirk could help his cause a lot by moving laterally or diagonally instead of just dropping back and anchoring. some, not all, but some of the sacks are definitely on Kirk and not the OL.
I would agree with that. This is not a binary argument. He's not perfect. I have trouble with his leadership and his moxie. I also think he sometimes holds the ball longer than he should, and he's just not very elusive. But if you want perfection in your QB, good luck. Even Mahomes has flaws. So does the pick-me girl across the St. Croix. But if you give him time, there may not be a better QB in the NFL than the Cap'n. Well, the numbers actually show that there isn't.
I just hope that these are among the analytics that KAM and KOC are looking at before they go selling him for a bridge QB and a couple of draft picks that may or may not be able to play in the NFL.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Zanary said:
@ VikingOracle said:
Keep this in mind -- Kyler Murray grew up a Vikings fan. Would you make a Cousins - Murray trade?
Nope...but it has practically nothing to do with Cousins.
We hung with Arizona until the latest in our heartbreaking missed kick series killed our efforts, so I don't pine for their offense vs ours...but instead, what I've noticed is that Murray looked worse in important games, looked bad as things got closer to playoff time. He's still a very good QB who likely has amazing potential... but I don't see mental toughness as much as I see a kid who's willing to take risks and his supporting cast has helped reward many of them.
That works in streaks, but...well, how many rings did Favre end up with in a two decade career?
if you are trying to convince me its a bad idea... you failed.
I dont care if he is a mental pussy, if he got us 1 ring in his career...well thats better than any other QB has done for the franchise in over 60 years. we cant get our 2nd until we get our first.
And in Cousins I see too many 3rd down check downs short of the sticks.
Name a QB who doesn't do this. This is my biggest pet peeve about football fans. So many complain about an 8 yard pass on 3rd and 12, when the truth is that, on 3rd down, the defense is stacked at the sticks. Sometimes your best hope of converting is throwing short of the sticks and hoping your guy can break through. It's not that QBs and OCs don't know where the marker is.
To follow up on this. Here's a great break down of exactly how Cousins compares to other QBs on 3rd and long. Hint: very good.
https://zonecoverage.com/2022/minnesota-...-and-long/
You probably also saw Kirk’s end of season PFF grades.
#1 in the LEAGUE from a clean pocket— outstanding
#17 in the league under pressure— ehh
#30 in big time throws under pressure— ouch
#32 in YPA under pressure— yuck
The fan narrative on Kirk I think is actually pretty close to the truth. He’s a phenomenal QB when given time, but defenses that can pressure him (read: good teams) will always be a problem. Big time fork in the road for the Vikings. Either keep trying to improve the OL to get the most out of their QB, or move on to someone who can perform better under pressure. Moving on might get you a higher ceiling, but that comes with a much lower floor.
I didn't see that. It's interesting. I think this is the 3rd year in a row that he finished 1st in the clean pocket ranking.
It depends on what fan narrative you're referring to. Most of it is from idiots on Twitter, but there's the "gets his stats from garbage time," which has been proven to be nonsense. "He's a check-down Charlie." More nonsense. "He's all stats; he can't come from behind." More nonsense. These are just a fraction of them.
Does he struggle under pressure? Yep. He's an immobile QB in a system that likes to throw long. That's gonna happen. I'll say one thing: it's far easier to improve your OL than find a QB who can play at a high level in this league. That could take years. Decades. Vikings OL really shouldn't be that far off.
they likely arent that far off at OL, unless you have a QB doesnt sense pressure and move around in the pocket to keep pass rushers honest and guessing. Kirk could help his cause a lot by moving laterally or diagonally instead of just dropping back and anchoring. some, not all, but some of the sacks are definitely on Kirk and not the OL.
I would agree with that. This is not a binary argument. He's not perfect. I have trouble with his leadership and his moxie. I also think he sometimes holds the ball longer than he should, and he's just not very elusive. But if you want perfection in your QB, good luck. Even Mahomes has flaws. So does the pick-me girl across the St. Croix. But if you give him time, there may not be a better QB in the NFL than the Cap'n. Well, the numbers actually show that there isn't.
I just hope that these are among the analytics that KAM and KOC are looking at before they go selling him for a bridge QB and a couple of draft picks that may or may not be able to play in the NFL.
I dont know that you can pay top dollar across the front 5, and still pay Kirk, as well as a defense, somebody is going to have to be on the cheap. We know our OTs are set with one already in the money, but the other holes won't be filled quickly if we are going to draft D so that leaves buying the talent for our IOL spots, plus all the lacking depth we need for a run. IMO the ball is in Kirk's court, if he wants to make north of 30 then his protection or weapons will suffer. The D needs the most help and if we want a quick turn around its likely to take a big share of any cap relief we can generate, but the more Kirk and other aging veterans are willing to create the better the end of their careers in Minny will be.
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