Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
Well it's a step in the right direction, there is no single one off solution. In my opinion poverty is the most insidious threat to our social structure. From what I know and what I have observed being born into poverty is almost inescapable, the odds are not in your favor. That is one reason I feel so strong about this, it's no panacea, but is a step in the right direction. The current 7.25 is just an unnecessary additional barrier.
Less than half the country recognizes that 7.25 minimum, hell some states have minimums lower that the federal standars ( not even sure how that is legal) so what is to be gained ? Leave wages up to local markets or at a minimum state guidelines and push for federal education standards and family relocation supports. Put the money into preparing people for jobs, and put the money into people where the jobs are.
What do you mean "federal education standards" wouldn't that take the parents and local school boards out of it. Will it include sex education, so we can keep folk out "breed and feed" cycle? What are these "family relocation supports", relocation has always been part of any job offer I have received or offered in the last forty years, so it won't be employer based anymore, it will come out of your taxes? This money preparing people for job's, would that be like subsidized tuition, no more student loans, just pay for their schooling? I think I heard of that somewhere, should we make it retro active perhaps?
Please expound this sounds like the details will be interesting.
there are already federal standards and mandates that local school and state school boards teach/adhere to if they want their funding. your assumption on relocation supports shows your narrow view of reality, there are a lot of decent paying jobs out there that do not cover relocation, they are called blue collar jobs, and yes I would rather the govt pay to move a family from some place with no opportunities to a place where they could support themselves, than to keep them caged up in govt housing in places with little to no employment opportunities thus keeping them living on the govt tit.
as far as tuition.. no I dont support paying back existing loans for people that already have debt, i would consider a program that would offer tax breaks to companies that hire these people and offer to help them pay back their student loans. but there are far to many people going to college and racking up massive debts getting degrees that are not needed, why reward stupidity? ( I dont believe in bail outs for anybody's error in judgement whether its personal or business or wall street, we best learn by dealing with the consequences of our actions and choices) and that program would be helping a lot of people that dont need it. use that money to help people get trained/educated in the fields that we actually have needs for in this country, open up trade schools in areas of high unemployment and then help them find work in other areas, and then help them move there to get a start on a real opportunity for self sufficiency instead of another generation of dependency.
For minimum wage job's relocation, will that cover temporary living expenses, or just moving costs between subsidized housing. Who's going to determine opportunity vs non opportunity locations', government headhunters. I don't think the market place will support this with out some oversite. Seems your kind of talking about migrant worker programs like WPA or Ag labor, for min wage restaurant workers. As far as the mandates, how's that working?
no. i am not talking about relocating people for minimum wage jobs, i am talking about getting people trained for better jobs. you know, so your single mother doesnt have to try and pay child care and rent on a minimum wage, and once she is adequately trained for a higher paying position, if its not available locally helping her financially to relocate to where her new skills are needed.
existing mandates arent adequate and arent working, thus my original statement to push for better federal education standards, maybe if they werent so hell bent on re writing history they would be able to focus on preparing our youth for a lifetime of paying their own way.
Yeah, I am with you on all these point's. And I see the government roles in assistance as worthwhile use of my tax dollar, not all will agree with that. We agree on the what, the who and how is where things get polarized. I think that this is where we are being exploited by the marketing of the political parties. I saw the wearing of masks as a simple public hygiene issue, cover your mouth when you cough and adopted it without getting butt hurt. Others felt the need to become experts and find ways to make the issue about personal freedom. That issue was fed a lot of misinformation and disinformation, I believe mostly disingenuous, to create a we vs them.
Quote: @BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
Well it's a step in the right direction, there is no single one off solution. In my opinion poverty is the most insidious threat to our social structure. From what I know and what I have observed being born into poverty is almost inescapable, the odds are not in your favor. That is one reason I feel so strong about this, it's no panacea, but is a step in the right direction. The current 7.25 is just an unnecessary additional barrier.
Less than half the country recognizes that 7.25 minimum, hell some states have minimums lower that the federal standars ( not even sure how that is legal) so what is to be gained ? Leave wages up to local markets or at a minimum state guidelines and push for federal education standards and family relocation supports. Put the money into preparing people for jobs, and put the money into people where the jobs are.
What do you mean "federal education standards" wouldn't that take the parents and local school boards out of it. Will it include sex education, so we can keep folk out "breed and feed" cycle? What are these "family relocation supports", relocation has always been part of any job offer I have received or offered in the last forty years, so it won't be employer based anymore, it will come out of your taxes? This money preparing people for job's, would that be like subsidized tuition, no more student loans, just pay for their schooling? I think I heard of that somewhere, should we make it retro active perhaps?
Please expound this sounds like the details will be interesting.
there are already federal standards and mandates that local school and state school boards teach/adhere to if they want their funding. your assumption on relocation supports shows your narrow view of reality, there are a lot of decent paying jobs out there that do not cover relocation, they are called blue collar jobs, and yes I would rather the govt pay to move a family from some place with no opportunities to a place where they could support themselves, than to keep them caged up in govt housing in places with little to no employment opportunities thus keeping them living on the govt tit.
as far as tuition.. no I dont support paying back existing loans for people that already have debt, i would consider a program that would offer tax breaks to companies that hire these people and offer to help them pay back their student loans. but there are far to many people going to college and racking up massive debts getting degrees that are not needed, why reward stupidity? ( I dont believe in bail outs for anybody's error in judgement whether its personal or business or wall street, we best learn by dealing with the consequences of our actions and choices) and that program would be helping a lot of people that dont need it. use that money to help people get trained/educated in the fields that we actually have needs for in this country, open up trade schools in areas of high unemployment and then help them find work in other areas, and then help them move there to get a start on a real opportunity for self sufficiency instead of another generation of dependency.
For minimum wage job's relocation, will that cover temporary living expenses, or just moving costs between subsidized housing. Who's going to determine opportunity vs non opportunity locations', government headhunters. I don't think the market place will support this with out some oversite. Seems your kind of talking about migrant worker programs like WPA or Ag labor, for min wage restaurant workers. As far as the mandates, how's that working?
no. i am not talking about relocating people for minimum wage jobs, i am talking about getting people trained for better jobs. you know, so your single mother doesnt have to try and pay child care and rent on a minimum wage, and once she is adequately trained for a higher paying position, if its not available locally helping her financially to relocate to where her new skills are needed.
existing mandates arent adequate and arent working, thus my original statement to push for better federal education standards, maybe if they werent so hell bent on re writing history they would be able to focus on preparing our youth for a lifetime of paying their own way.
Yeah, I am with you on all these point's. And I see the government roles in assistance as worthwhile use of my tax dollar, not all will agree with that. We agree on the what, the who and how is where things get polarized. I think that this is where we are being exploited by the marketing of the political parties. I saw the wearing of masks as a simple public hygiene issue, cover your mouth when you cough and adopted it without getting butt hurt. Others felt the need to become experts and find ways to make the issue about personal freedom. That issue was fed a lot of misinformation and disinformation, I believe mostly disingenuous, to create a we vs them.
i have never had a problem with my taxes being used to provide real opportunities for all deserving Americans, where I take exception is when I am told that people cant make their own way due to a myriad of excuses... I just dont buy that line. In this country we have millions of mentally handicapped people that go to work every day and are productive members of society in their own way.... and it makes me sick to hear of all the excuses I hear for the millions and millions that are making social programs a way of life. I want to see our govt get out of the role of lifetime provider and get into the role of lifetime preparer. if we get more people paying taxes and less people living off those taxes.. its a massive win for all Americans regardless of political affiliation, skin color, sexual orientation, faith,... yada yada yada.
our system is broken when unskilled people choose not to take a job because its beneath them and those employers are forced to bring in unskilled laborers from other countries. I live around massive dairies and those that run them are constantly complaining about nobody wanting to work. these jobs pay several dollars over the prevailing unskill labor wages (likely in that $15 range) but they cant find Americans that will fill them. we dont have a wage problem in the country, we have a lack of want to in this country. If that single mother wants to make $15 an hour, she could come work a milking parlor. I have to believe that there are jobs like this all over this country since we see migrant and illegal workers being used all over the country. whenever I hear local racists make comments about the hispanics that have moved in... I say dont be mad at them, if the jobs werent available they wouldnt be here, complain about the dead beats at the bar all day that are to good to pull tits and pay their own way.
What does she do with that child , day care, so what is her net then? We can debate the micro situations for perpetuity, what works for me in my factories and you in your economy is different.
What's happening in your area sounds a lot like what heard happened in GA, when they cracked down on Illegal aliens and instituted some ID law's. The migrant laborers legal and illegal decided to skip GA and go elsewhere, lot of demand for their skills elsewhere. The local unemployed didn't show up in great numbers, and those that did couldn't produce at the rate of the migrants, pay by productivity, and also wouldn't come back after a day or two. I came away with the market doesn't understand the skill required for that job, or for some other reason thought finding illegal's had more value than harvesting Peaches and Pecans. It's like we undervalue physical skills that require labor and over value the skills of the wealthy. You have probably seen it first hand on the farm, unskilled labor used to feed the nation, compare that to the micro trader buying and selling crude in a pipeline who probably doesn't have the skills to fill a gas can. I don't know how many times that oil changes price between the time it enters the pipeline and it exit's, but there is no value added by him. Maybe some should come off the top to balance the other end.
May 17, 2012,10:05am EDT The Law Of Unintended Consequences: Georgia's Immigration Law Backfires Guest commentary curated by Forbes Opinion. Avik Roy, Opinion Editor.
By Benjamin Powell
To forgo a repeat of last year, when labor shortages triggered an
estimated $140 million in agricultural losses, as crops rotted in the
fields, officials in Georgia are now dispatching prisoners to the
state’s farms to help harvest fruit and vegetables.
The labor shortages, which also have affected the hotel and
restaurant industries, are a consequence of Georgia’s immigration
enforcement law, HB 87, which was passed last year. As State Rep. Matt
Ramsey, one of the bill’s authors, said at the time, “Our goal is … to
eliminate incentives for illegal aliens to cross into our state.
”https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/05/17/the-law-of-unintended-consequences-georgias-immigration-law-backfires/?sh=a579f0a492aa
Quote: @BigAl99 said:
What does she do with that child , day care, so what is her net then? We can debate the micro situations for perpetuity, what works for me in my factories and you in your economy is different.
What's happening in your area sounds a lot like what heard happened in GA, when they cracked down on Illegal aliens and instituted some ID law's. The migrant laborers legal and illegal decided to skip GA and go elsewhere, lot of demand for their skills elsewhere. The local unemployed didn't show up in great numbers, and those that did couldn't produce at the rate of the migrants, pay by productivity, and also wouldn't come back after a day or two. I came away with the market doesn't understand the skill required for that job, or for some other reason thought finding illegal's had more value than harvesting Peaches and Pecans. It's like we undervalue physical skills that require labor and over value the skills of the wealthy. You have probably seen it first hand on the farm, unskilled labor used to feed the nation, compare that to the micro trader buying and selling crude in a pipeline who probably doesn't have the skills to fill a gas can. I don't know how many times that oil changes price between the time it enters the pipeline and it exit's, but there is no value added by him. Maybe some should come off the top to balance the other end.
May 17, 2012,10:05am EDT The Law Of Unintended Consequences: Georgia's Immigration Law Backfires Guest commentary curated by Forbes Opinion. Avik Roy, Opinion Editor.
By Benjamin Powell
To forgo a repeat of last year, when labor shortages triggered an
estimated $140 million in agricultural losses, as crops rotted in the
fields, officials in Georgia are now dispatching prisoners to the
state’s farms to help harvest fruit and vegetables.
The labor shortages, which also have affected the hotel and
restaurant industries, are a consequence of Georgia’s immigration
enforcement law, HB 87, which was passed last year. As State Rep. Matt
Ramsey, one of the bill’s authors, said at the time, “Our goal is … to
eliminate incentives for illegal aliens to cross into our state.
”https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/05/17/the-law-of-unintended-consequences-georgias-immigration-law-backfires/?sh=a579f0a492aa
dont get me started on commodity traders, IMO if you got rid of the paper farmers, paper oil barons, paper etc...we would all be much better off. I have said my whole adult life that people that arent able to take delivery of something shouldnt be able to buy and sell it. take the speculators out of the equation, at least for things like our food supply.
EDIT: of course I say this after just coming back from a meeting with my financial guy.
|
